LOUD ticking

[elwesso]

Ok for the past few days Ive been hearing some tapping. It sounds like valve tapping because on occasion (mainly when its cold or not been driven much, or on many consecutive short trips), and I did some serious driving today (150 miles or so, highway miles) and i figured if it were valve tapping than it would get better (my oil light problem really isnt a problem anymore) and be silent.

Well I got to my destination today (car drove wonderfully) and the tapping was LOUDER than ever. The car runs a little funky, it kinda stumbles at idle and sometimes shakes under load but is pretty smooth at no load idle.

When I opened up the hood, it dosent sound like its coming from the valve cover, but right above that (injector area), the thing is Ive never heard of injectors getting so noisy, and this has me concerned because the car runs perfect and if its valve noise certain pending deals may not happen .

If anything its DEFINTELY on teh drivers side and is no 1 or no 3. hopefully no 1

I havent OHMed my injectors yet, and will do that when its light out tomorrow.. However, when i take the engine subharness off, how do you know which pins your ohming correspond with each injector....

Thanks gurus, if someone might call me, my number is 765-621-8336

[DAEDALUS]

For starters you could try disconnecting #1 injector harness to see if the noise goes away. Easy to ohm #1 directly too. The harness pin-outs are listed in the EF-EC section somewhere.

[elwesso]

I went outside and ohmed the no1 injector, and according to my walmart special multimeter its 13ohms. I dont used this for exact just to give me a ballpark....

Has anyone heard of an injector making this loud of a noise. It cant be heard inside the cabin, but if you put the windows down you can hear it and its obvious from outside the car.

If it is valve tapping, why would it start so suddenly. I started the car one time and it started doing it, and i listen to the car at warm and cold idle every day prior to that and it was silent as can be.... I suppose if thats what we think it is I can run some ATF and seafoam through the system and then have my oil changed when I get back home or have it flushed (ill fill with a temporary oil).....

EDIT: Regardless of what this may be, I am 100 miles from home right now, the car seems to run OK with this problem, but am I safe to drive the car..?

[PoorManQ45]

There are two other possible causes that you may have overlooked. The first one is, you may have a hole in your headers. The second is, one of the lifters may be sticking. Both these problems cause a loud ticking that sounds very similar

[PoorManQ45]

Does the speed or volume of the ticking change as engine RPMs change?

[elwesso]

The volume doesnt seem to change but it increases with speed.... It may be slightly worse when the engine is warm...

I dont think its the exhuast personally, so that leaves an injector or a lifter like I mentioned earlier....

The question is, am I doing any damage by driving the car in its current state....?

[elwesso]

I just went out and did some more test. I removed the no 1 and no 3 injector connector, ticking didnt stop but engine speed went down some (not a lot).....

I managed to get a screwdriver on them and listen to them, and 5 sounded maybe a little louder....

I put the screwdriver on various places on the valve cover and I didnt hear anything except a slight whirrrr....

The sound is almost more noticeable with the hood up sitting from the drivers seat (door open) than standing in front of the engine bay.

Im having a real hard time determining where this is coming from.

[maxnix]

If it is a loud ticking, check under the car right after the catalytic convertor on the diver's side. I had a pinhole there and further back that were fixed with a quick weld. A lift helps isolate the noise if it is in the exhaust. If this is it, no harm in driving other than aggravation. There is harm if it is the header that is holed.

[911/Q45]

Might check your EGR connections too, both ends of the pipe and the gasket between the valve and plenum. You had all that apart and it's tough to get it all sealed properly sometimes.

[elwesso]

Just checked it out, jacked up the car and listened underneath. It doesnt sound like theres a hole somewhere and its definteily not farther back than the engine itself. It seems just as loud on the bottom as it does on top..

If its a lifter, its only one and its going to town if it is. ive had valve clatter before on freezing winter starts, and this si defintely just one thing making noise.

I was talking to someone and I had my engine flush done, he thought that maybe some of the stuff is just now coming loose and may have clogged something?? I dont know its a thought and it kinda makes sense.

[maxnix]

Well, try the BG quick clean (?) before your next oil change or flush. Quite posible that some loose particulate varnish is clogging the HLA orifice.

What a bummer! Wish we could all hear it and do something for you.

While I don't ever recommend getting under a car on a jack (or even a jack stand, earthquakes where I live), get it on a lift and look. My perforations were very well hidden and hard to find with out seeing the tell-tale white deposits external to where it had perforated.

[elwesso]

When I get back home I will do 2 things:

1. get another engine flush2. Take a video or sound clip fo the noise.

Just so you know, I jacked the car up and put blocks under the wheel. Its an industrial strength jack but I dont like taking chances, I dont even use stands, I have solid wood ramps.... The marina uses it for lifting their forklifts, so I think the Q will be fine....

Hopefully I wouldnt be doing any harm by driving it because it has to get home, but it wont be driven and I certainly wont WOT or anything like that......

Would it be worth it to try the ATF and seafoam trick, idling for 30 mins, then change the oil???? I have all the stuff to do a quick oil change here and would refill with cheap oil (straight 30, fine for summer) until I get back home and I can get my flush and new oil....

I can maybe see if someone around here has a recorder or something like that so i can take a clip....

Someone could call

[elwesso]

Just got home from the 100 mile drive, and the ticking is DEFINTELY louder at hot idle.... The car drove beautifully home, and I really dont know what to do. I didnt do anything to it while I was up there except load my strut toewr bar.....

Please help...

[DAEDALUS]

Wes, it does sound oil pressure related...valvetrain. Oil pressure hot is way less than when cold (70+ vs. 14 psi). I see 2 most likely possibilities...bad lifter or blocked gallery. Neither is easy to diagnose. Neither is common. The easiest thing to do is try and clean out/desludge the engine with repeated BG flushes/oil changes. The last chain guide job I did, there was a loud "rattling" from the front of the engine on the driver's side. Had to tear it all apart again. Turns out there was crud in the chain tensioner oil port, causing too much slack in the chain. Caused quite a racket, sounded kind of like rod knock.You're certain the bar isn't contacting the engine? Look for any scuff marks around where the 2 are close.

[elwesso]

Edited: I am going to schedule a engine flush here ASAP because I dont want to take any chances.....

I will also try weekly oil changes for a while with ATF... but Im hoping the flush will help.....

What would make a lifter go bad???

[elwesso]

BTW, the thing thats weird is it sounds just fine when i put a screwdriver on the valve cover.....

[elwesso]

http://wes.spilky.com/Recording3.wav

Theres a sound clip to listen to, gotta turn up speakers kinda loud.

I put my pocket pc on the drivers side strut tower.....

[maxnix]

Ain't no exhaust leak! I think the HLA just rose to the top of the list.

[elwesso]

So we're suggesting that a HLA might be bad, or what...??? Those arent fixable are they...

[DAEDALUS]

I think the ticking rate at idle confirms a single cylinder is at the root. At 650 rpms, 10.8 revs/second = 5.4 valve cycles/second. If a HLA is bad then you get to replace it. $50 each I think. If it's a blocked oil gallery then you'll be in for a lot more work unless you can clear it out without opening up the engine. I think it's possible to remove the camshafts without opening up the front of the engine, but it'll be challenging to say the least. Stick with the rigorous flushes for at least a while. You can try either a compression test or a power balance test at the dealer to pinpoint the cylinder. Always diagnose as much as you can with the engine running, cause once you're in there you don't have the luxury measuring/observing a lot of things.I don't know if it's doing any damage driving like that. I imagine the sound is from one of the valves hitting the seat. The seats are hardened, but I'm not sure about the valves. Maybe cobalt?

[elwesso]

I was talking to Jesda and he recommended CD2... Im gonna get my engine flushed this week, ASAP... If that doesnt work along with rigrous cleaning (no more than 1 month), Im gonna fold, and the Q will go into retirement, or hospice care

I would like to confirm if IM doing damage by driving it because I still need it for transportation but its not that big of a deal, it can be worked around...

[elwesso]

I got an appointment to get the Q serviced tomorrow at 1..... We'll see how it goes.....

[pito11213]

I dont know of the relation

but my friends honda had the same sound and it turned out to be that a head bolt under the valve cover broke off and was underneath the lifter causing it to make the same sound.

Later on we found that he had fried the bearings and fried the oil pump.

Hope that is not the case with you.

[elwesso]

I have given it more thought and if only one lifter is bad or not working, then Im only damaging it.. All the rest of the engine is good, correct??

If the flush doesnt fix it, I should be able to turn on the car with the VC off and see which one it is for sure???

[Q45tech]

Before you screw it up [or allow some tech to OVER MEDICATE IT], do as I said with the BG Quick Clean.Your sound is a common problem we see multi dozens of abused oil change Q engines.

I have revived 20 at least in the past few years. Made the problem sound go away without introducing excessive wear to other parts of engine!

Follow the proceedure as previsiously outline, the last thing you want to do first is to use an engine flush..........you need to de varnish first with a fast evaporating solvent not kerosene...........CD2 is nasty.

If you insist on something non BG pour a pint [16 ounces MAX] of Mobil 1 Syn ATF in oil and drive it for 15 minutes at low rpms [keep it under 2500] then drain and replace oil and filter.Don't cheap out with conventional dextron in summer the oil temp in bearings will be 300F........the ATF could break down fast and create more varnish.

[natsoundup]

thank you for a kindler...and gentler..... q45 tech..... Wes...listen to him.... I think the collective group can keep you running....even if I have to give you the engine from the 90///

Try this and we will go from here....

[elwesso]

So i shouldnt use the envirolution or bilstein that I have scheduled for tomorrow..? Will it not do anyhting or possibly make it worse??? I can just as easy cancel it and start on a cleanup schedule, 4 oil changes @$20 would put me right at a flush if I brought in my own oil, then add in $10 for 2 qts of syn ATF......

How many times should I do the procedure?? I have access to tons of free oil (straight 30 weight) so I could do it say 6 times at least in one day.....

For varnish removal, isnt seafoam good??

I have to order some other stuff, so Ill get a few cans of BG quick clean... But ATF would be easier, but if BG will get it done quicker then that might be best...

how long should I drive with the quick clean in.....??

[pito11213]

hey do you really have the engine for a 90

if so lets talk

[natsoundup]

I am very proud of my 90 engine. It runs perfectly, but the chain guides haven't been done.... However, it's seen dino oil changes at no more than 3500 miles or 90 days for the last 11 years.

I am starting to think about parting the car or selling it. I believe its reaching the end of its economic life as a daily driver.

Unfortunately it's probably not very economical for someone to pull an engine in South Carolina to get to New York or and appreciable distance. I would love to see someone get it and do the guides. I think this engine is easily a 275k engine.

[natsoundup]

didn't mean to hijack the thread.