Loud noise at start-up. Will not start now. Smoked a little more than normal.

[SHREVE66]

I pulled the car out of the garage yesterday and parked in driveway. Last night, I pulled it back in and kinda noticed a vibration, almost sounded like it was missing, but brushed it off because I havent been driving it.

Went to start this morning and heard a horrific noise coming from the engine. Almost sounded like some metal clanking or valves rattling. It started for about 1 second and I shut it down. Will not restart, just turns over. I have never noticed the sound of the engine turning over, but to me, it now sounds like when a battery is weak and it turns the engine over a little slower. What could be wrong???? No check engine light. Any ideas??????
Modified by SHREVE66 at 5:56 AM 11/30/2009

[tigerclaws1318]

Check your oil level. Low oil will cause very loud noises from the engine. For the weak/slow cranking its most likely your battery. Check your battery terminals for any corrosion. You could always take your battery to like an autozone to have it tested for free.

[SHREVE66]

Oil level is fine. And again, maybe the car is supposed to sound like that when it turns over. I have never heard that sound(sound of the engine turning over, almost sounds like a weak battery would sound)because my car always would start right up within a half of second. Trust me, the battery is not my problem. Batteries dont make the engine sound like pieces of metal getting swished around in oil.
Modified by SHREVE66 at 6:32 AM 11/30/2009

[szh]

One other thought. It is a common problem to create carbon deposit problems by doing short "move the car" drives. If you shut the engine down without letting it warm up properly, then this problem occurs - I have done this on my 2003 M45 too.

I think it might be worth just crankiing it a bit longer to see if you can get it going (don't press the accelerator) - then let the car warm up a few minutes to normal temp. After it is warmed up (the problem sound should go away), give it a few WOT's to clean out the carbon buildup.

If WOT's don't help, a session with BG-44K will be necessary - this has cleared up similar clatter problems on my car.

Z

[SHREVE66]

It took me a while of turning the engine over, but I finally got it started. Had a clanking sound that went away after 2 minutes. Very very weird. Runs fine now. What a scary moment.

[rsg123]

Did it sound like this?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VnoAC9F538(forward to 1:00)

[dvan]

or this perhaps? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDQeCOJZcDM

[rsg123]

Both of those videos make me

[SHREVE66]

Yeah, it did sound like those. I am hearing the noise is a hydraulic lifter. I'm not an engine mechanic, so no real clue what it is. I hope it can't mess up my engine. I hope to hear from our experts to hear more info on this noise. My car is not making that noise anymore, but I have heard it before, only a couple times, and only for a few seconds.

[ken in az]

Yeah, it did sound like those. I am hearing the noise is a hydraulic lifter. I'm not an engine mechanic, so no real clue what it is. I hope it can't mess up my engine. I hope to hear from our experts to hear more info on this noise. My car is not making that noise anymore, but I have heard it before, only a couple times, and only for a few seconds.

Our cars have solid lifters with set clearances so that is not the noise you heard. Some have said that the diagnosis is a flooded engine which fits your scenario with slow cranking and then clearing up after a bit of trying. To me, that still doesn't explain the loud clanking noise. I've heard of people getting an entirely new engine and also have heard it explained as the timing chain adjusterd loose pressure an slack out allowing the timing chain to clank around on the cover. I've also heard it being a combination of the timing chain tensioners and the VCT actuators on the camshaft actually loosing oil pressure allowing the camshaft to flop around letting the timing chain flop and bang around even more violently.

Whatever it is, it sounds bad and usually happens after a cold start short move and then a restart situation.

Hopefully this doesn't come back for you.

[rsg123]

Try to never turn the car off if it hasn't reached normal operating temperature. That's easier said than done, especially when you drop the car off for service and it's not in your hands.But apparently the best way to get rid of the sound is to run the car through the noise and it should go away. I flooded my engine by turning it on and off a few times after hearing that sound.

[dvan]

Yeah, it did sound like those. I am hearing the noise is a hydraulic lifter. I'm not an engine mechanic, so no real clue what it is. I hope it can't mess up my engine. I hope to hear from our experts to hear more info on this noise. My car is not making that noise anymore, but I have heard it before, only a couple times, and only for a few seconds.

My sound was a #7 piston failure according to the dealership. The noise came on while driving in the past but went away after a few minutes. So if your noise has ever comes on AFTER you have already been driving, maybe one of your pistons are failing. I got my engine replaced under warranty.

[UpStar]

[QUOTE=SHREVE66]I pulled the car out of the garage yesterday and parked in driveway. Last night, I pulled it back in and kinda noticed a vibration, almost sounded like it was missing, but brushed it off because I havent been driving it.

Went to start this morning and heard a horrific noise coming from the engine. Almost sounded like some metal clanking or valves rattling. It started for about 1 second and I shut it down. Will not restart, just turns over. I have never noticed the sound of the engine turning over, but to me, it now sounds like when a battery is weak and it turns the engine over a little slower. What could be wrong???? No check engine light. Any ideas??????

its your battery
Modified by UpStar at 4:00 PM 12/6/2009

[szh]

My sound was a #7 piston failure according to the dealership. The noise came on while driving in the past but went away after a few minutes. So if your noise has ever comes on AFTER you have already been driving,

Scary.

Mine has only done the clatter when started cold - has occurred maybe three or four times in the six years that I have had my M45. It was probably caused by a cold engine shutdown situation (moved from driveway to garage) and then the car sat overnight - the last time some months back, this was definitely this cause!

Anyway, once the clattering starts, it sticks around at low levels (but goes down a lot with some post-warmed-up WOTs) till I clean things up with a BG-44K session. I tend to keep a bottle handy in my garage.

Regardless, I agree, if it happens to a warmed-up engine, out on the road, that is an entirely different situation. Stop the car and get it towed to the dealer to check out!

Z

[kamezzle13]

my car recently had this happen, i freaked out and didnt drive the car for two weeks. I tried to start it one day, and it sounded like it was missing all over the place, and didnt want to start correctly, so i shut it down. I was going to have it towed to a dealership, but i was in the process of moving and very busy, so i never had time. The final day at my last place i decided to try to crank it up to see how bad the problem was, and it started with little hesitation, and the violent shaking/noise turned into a faint sputter. after letting it warm up for about 10-15 mins i took the car for a short drive and it all went away, hasnt come back since. I'm glad i found this, because i was very worried. I had only driven the car a block b4 parking it.

[SHREVE66]

Thx for all of the advice. Man, I know better than to crank the engine and immediately shut it back down. That noise is something I hope to never hear again. I have a question about the post about possible timing chain noise. What do you guys recommend for the 03 M45 as far as replacing the timing chain? I have 109K. Am I getting close. Hope that didnt have anything to do with it. I am pretty sure it was just a flooded engine causing it to not want to start. As far as the rod knocking noise, Im just dumbfounded.

[UpStar]

has anyone tried replacing the battery? on the 03-04 M's its probably time to replace the battery anyhow, so take the cheap road and replace the battery before draggin it in to the dealer..

[SHREVE66]

What are you talking about? Dead batteries do not make metal clunking noises come from your engine.
Modified by SHREVE66 at 6:15 PM 12/5/2009

[dvan]

What are you talking abot. Dead batteries do not make metal clunking noises come from your engine.

LOL

[svard75]

I had a similar issue happen to the 3.5. It was self caused. I replaced the sparkplugs and mistakenly swapped #2 and #3 wires causing all sorts of missfires and eventually melted my cat for that side. $2000 repair bill later taught me to label the damn wires as I'm removing them! Likely not what's causing your issue but It could be a coilpack on it's way out. Or try to reseat the coilpack wires. A long time ago I had a HID headlight that went out on me. I thought I would have to fork out the $300+ to replace but instead removed the harness sprayed some electrical contact cleaner and pushed it back in. Worked right away and to this day still does.

Good Luck!

[Q45tech]

Most engine problems are owner/mechanic induced. Failure to have serviced by a trained TECHNICAN who works on these engines day in and day out.Oil levels [ every 90 day changes] and driving style.

Notice that the owners manual has a section concerning minumum annual driving miles per year. Plus warranty is void if not at least TWO DOCUMENTED OIL CHANGES per year!

Same with batteries which only have a 36 month life [depending on local conditions].

[Andrew224]

What are you talking about? Dead batteries do not make metal clunking noises come from your engine.

They do when they are not putting out enough power to operate the car's systems. Hard to turn over, fuel pumps not pumpnig fuel like they should, weak spark, or no spark, causing misfires and having the car's computer attempt to correct for all these problems at once, causing a poorly running engine.

That's why it happens on start up and clears up after running a bit, after the battery gets charged up by the alternator.

Happened to me too, after not driving the car for like a month and not having the battery tender on it.

[UpStar]

They do when they are not putting out enough power to operate the car's systems. Hard to turn over, fuel pumps not pumpnig fuel like they should, weak spark, or no spark, causing misfires and having the car's computer attempt to correct for all these problems at once, causing a poorly running engine.

That's why it happens on start up and clears up after running a bit, after the battery gets charged up by the alternator.

Happend to me too, after not driving the car for like a month and not having the battery tender on it.

Exactly. thank you Andrew

What are you talking about? Dead batteries do not make metal clunking noises come from your engine.

Modified by SHREVE66 at 6:15 PM 12/5/2009

Shreve66,

Change your battery before you take it to the dealer, especially if its the original from 03 or 04. good luck my man.

[svard75]

The car battery itself is not the part that is making the noise. It may, however, be a direct culprit of another part which is making the noise. I think in this case it may be something other than the battery because if the battery was the culprit of the noise it would be more like a click, click, click noise rather than a clang clang clang noise. The click , click, click noise is generated by the starter motor which doesn't have enough amps to crank the flywheel or whatever it's called in an automatic transmission.

Good suggestion though

[SHREVE66]

Guys, seriously. I appreciate all of the help, but I dont care what anyone says. A battery WILL NOT MAKE MY ENGINE MAKE THAT NOISE. The conclusion was something about a hydraulic lifter being stuck and my engine being flooded. There is no way ever that a battery would cause my engine to make that noise. That is almost as bad as saying my passenger rear tire was low on air and it caused my radio to not work. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. I dont want to make it where people are scared to post because I 100% disagree with 1 of the possible causes, but come onnnn mannn. My battery is brand new. Im an aviation electrician, I have been to school after school about electricity. If my battery is strong enough to turn my starter motor on to crank a 8 cyl engine, then I know it has enough power to power up a little motor on a fuel pump. And even it it was a fuel pump, my engine would just turn overand over. Weak spark, same thing. Imagine if your motor was running and you could pour a few nuts and bolts down a funnel to get into the inside of your motor, that was the noise I heard. IT IS NOT A LOW BATTERY. My engine is fine now. I turned it over until it started, made a funny noise for a couple of minutes, smoked like a crack head, and then ran fine.

[SHREVE66]

The car battery itself is not the part that is making the noise. It may, however, be a direct culprit of another part which is making the noise. I think in this case it may be something other than the battery because if the battery was the culprit of the noise it would be more like a click, click, click noise rather than a clang clang clang noise. The click , click, click noise is generated by the starter motor which doesn't have enough amps to crank the flywheel or whatever it's called in an automatic transmission.

Good suggestion though

I agree with the click click, but never a clank clank. seriously

[svard75]

So stuck lifter? What did they do to fix it? Or did you just let it idle a bit?

Cheers

[SHREVE66]

I just started it up and let it make the noise for a couple of minutes until it warmed up. This is what happened.

Sunday at noon, pulled car out of garage to sweep floor. Car was running maybe 10 seconds. Engine was cold, never let warm up. Moved it 15 feet.

Sunday 1900, pulled car back in garage, but kinda noticed it missing a little. Again, car only ran for 15 seconds. Never let it warm up. Brushed off the missing and vibration because I hadnt drove it since Wed. So, Thur, FRI, Sat, and most of Sunday, just sat. Weather was in upper 40's, low 50's.

Monday 0645. Started car and heard horrific noise. I really thought my engine was destroyed. Started it for maybe 2 seconds. Now, my engine is flooded, but I did not know this yet.

Tried to restart, but just turned over. The engine just sounded funny while turning over. Almost sounded as if I had a low battery. The starter just sounded weak. But this is the way these cars sound. My battery is brand new. The reason I never heard my starter turn my engine over is because, it takes about .5 seconds for these cars to start up.

I logged in to Nico and did a little research. Someone advised me to just turn it over until it started up. I turned it over for 10 to 15 seconds, nothing. Banged my head a little and tried it again. This time, I could tell the motor was flooded by the way it sounded. I could hear it wanting to start. Finally, the engine started up, smoked like a crack head, and the knocking noise was back. I just let the engine warm up, noise went away and I drove it around the block. Noise has not been back since.

I hope to never hear that noise again. I use the best oil on the market, and change it every 5 to 6k miles. I take very very good care of my engine, so this was not due to neglect.Thanks again everyone.

[szh]

Don't forget the occasional WOT's too (after engine is fully warm)! That helps keep everything cleaner ... it is in one of the TSB's too as a potential fix for this startup clatter problem.

Although I still recommend a BG-44K session afterwards.

Z

[rsg123]

I just started it up and let it make the noise for a couple of minutes until it warmed up. This is what happened.

Sunday at noon, pulled car out of garage to sweep floor. Car was running maybe 10 seconds. Engine was cold, never let warm up. Moved it 15 feet.

Sunday 1900, pulled car back in garage, but kinda noticed it missing a little. Again, car only ran for 15 seconds. Never let it warm up. Brushed off the missing and vibration because I hadnt drove it since Wed. So, Thur, FRI, Sat, and most of Sunday, just sat. Weather was in upper 40's, low 50's.

Monday 0645. Started car and heard horrific noise. I really thought my engine was destroyed. Started it for maybe 2 seconds. Now, my engine is flooded, but I did not know this yet.

Tried to restart, but just turned over. The engine just sounded funny while turning over. Almost sounded as if I had a low battery. The starter just sounded weak. But this is the way these cars sound. My battery is brand new. The reason I never heard my starter turn my engine over is because, it takes about .5 seconds for these cars to start up.

I logged in to Nico and did a little research. Someone advised me to just turn it over until it started up. I turned it over for 10 to 15 seconds, nothing. Banged my head a little and tried it again. This time, I could tell the motor was flooded by the way it sounded. I could hear it wanting to start. Finally, the engine started up, smoked like a crack head, and the knocking noise was back. I just let the engine warm up, noise went away and I drove it around the block. Noise has not been back since.

I hope to never hear that noise again. I use the best oil on the market, and change it every 5 to 6k miles. I take very very good care of my engine, so this was not due to neglect.Thanks again everyone.

I had pretty much the same story, except my engine never started after being flooded and I had to have it towed to the dealer. My battery was about a month old.