I came to the S14 due to many comparing it with the 944 Turbo I have been looking at...specifically a 1988 or 1989 S model.
I like the RWD, balance, and modern refinement that just going out and getting a Mustang or camaro would not give (nose heavy and cheapness).
Now the Porsche is a nice car, however, realistically it's 10 years older that the Nissan, which is now about 5 years old itself. The Porsche does have than nice galvanized body so finding a nice looking one is easy, just finding one with a nice looking interior is hard.
I want a project, I was going to turbocharge and do a major rebuild on my 96 Saturn, but there is not much support for the model....I love the look (I have a 'classic' model which was all black with light grey perforated leather inside) but being FWD with even a Quaiffe I am not going to get any kind of major handling at the limits....plus the car is nose heavy....I could add weight to the rear, but that's really counter productive.
I am considering the latest S14 I can get...but I am open to engineless cars as I want a turbocharged vehicle. I imagine any type of Skyline would cost 10's of thousands, and the celica's I don't really care for....MR2 is nice for a 2 seater weekend car, but I want a practical car to daily drive too.
I have all the tools I'd need and the knowledge to swap engines and get the stuff to the right places for fabrication/machining. It's nice to see most of the turbo stuff is buyable without having to risk someone else welding up a one-off manifold.
Any suggestions or ideas, please...my saturn is still running well, but just turned 100k miles....being that I haven't done the clutch yet or timing chain it's going to be soon I am looking at $500-1500 in parts and at that point the engine should be rebuilt anyways ($2000-4000 more for a perf rebuild, a couple hundred to just drop in a stock replacement)....so doing it my way I am looking at about $5,500 to just get my saturn to tip top shape and about 175hp at the wheels, if I add a turbo on top of that (which I would want to do)....I am at $8k. I would much rather sell it to someone just looking for a fun car that will drop a rebuild in it get the clutch done and another 50-100k miles out of it for a grand or two.
Chris
Looking...S14 vs 944 turbo S or similar car
Why not keep the saturn as a daily driver?
I doubt you will get much money selling it. Get the S14 and mod it to your liking and use the saturn as a beater.
Porsche parts are expensive, if you've never owned one don't start. The repair bills add up a lot faster than a japanese import car. Sourcing parts is another problem.
Good lucking finding a S14 w/o an engine. The $ required to tow it home or ship it is not really worth it if you ask me.
I doubt you will get much money selling it. Get the S14 and mod it to your liking and use the saturn as a beater.
Porsche parts are expensive, if you've never owned one don't start. The repair bills add up a lot faster than a japanese import car. Sourcing parts is another problem.
Good lucking finding a S14 w/o an engine. The $ required to tow it home or ship it is not really worth it if you ask me.
I don't have the space nor the desire for two insurance/tags/etc...
The engineless/dead engine option would have to be a local car of course.
I have not owned a Porsche yet, but the parts really on the 944 aren't much worse than my Saturn (I have a side by side of what I did to my car vs the cost on the 944)....what does kill the deal on the Porsche is labor twice the hours for almost all jobs...but I turn my own wrenches....
The thing that is expensive of the Porsche is interior items....
I should be able to get at least $3500 out of my saturn....it's really a nice one, plus a limited 1 of 1500 that the Saturn guys would like. Again many don't understand the car so ...
The thing isn't getting money out of it though, it's not dumping more money into it.
With the 240SX I am seeing you really can build a streetable terror semi reasonably...esp if you do the labor end yourself.
The engineless/dead engine option would have to be a local car of course.
I have not owned a Porsche yet, but the parts really on the 944 aren't much worse than my Saturn (I have a side by side of what I did to my car vs the cost on the 944)....what does kill the deal on the Porsche is labor twice the hours for almost all jobs...but I turn my own wrenches....
The thing that is expensive of the Porsche is interior items....
I should be able to get at least $3500 out of my saturn....it's really a nice one, plus a limited 1 of 1500 that the Saturn guys would like. Again many don't understand the car so ...
The thing isn't getting money out of it though, it's not dumping more money into it.
With the 240SX I am seeing you really can build a streetable terror semi reasonably...esp if you do the labor end yourself.
i'd vote for the S14 as well. it's more economical in every way. the 944's are great cars, the turbo is an even better car, and the turbo S is phenomenal. however, turbo S's are rare at best. if you're looking at modifying anyway, you're best to start off with a base turbo...save the S's for the fanatics. again, though, you're looking at repair/maintenance costs you can only dream of.go for the s14, they're awesome cars.
alkemyst, ridden in a 240sx yet (for an extended period of time)?
I love my car (S13) to death (although I just as easily want to kill it on occasions) but it's, well, like a sardine can for someone nearly 6". That and, being a 14-ish year old car has some issues we're still "discussing" (I'm finally winning through use of an industrial strength degreaser, wire brush, steel wool, PB spray, a general assortment of tools and alot of cussing.)
As far as working on? It doesn't have alot of room in the egine (you can't even change the O2 sensor with a standard O2 socket--at leat the one I have :-/) . Then again, I suppose it's nothing when compared to a TT-stuffed sports car.
Given time and money, there isn't any automobile out there that can't be made into a "streetable" terror. (Even if it means keeping nothing but the shell
There are also lots of other cars that fall into the "[small] 2+2" catagory ranging from the F-twins, Paseo, XT6 (Subaru), and Eclipse/Talon (very far from being complete).
Of course, nothing wrong with %$@! 24... err, with 240's(And NICO is [usually] very good.)
...now all I need is [another] beater
I love my car (S13) to death (although I just as easily want to kill it on occasions) but it's, well, like a sardine can for someone nearly 6". That and, being a 14-ish year old car has some issues we're still "discussing" (I'm finally winning through use of an industrial strength degreaser, wire brush, steel wool, PB spray, a general assortment of tools and alot of cussing.)
As far as working on? It doesn't have alot of room in the egine (you can't even change the O2 sensor with a standard O2 socket--at leat the one I have :-/) . Then again, I suppose it's nothing when compared to a TT-stuffed sports car.
Given time and money, there isn't any automobile out there that can't be made into a "streetable" terror. (Even if it means keeping nothing but the shell
There are also lots of other cars that fall into the "[small] 2+2" catagory ranging from the F-twins, Paseo, XT6 (Subaru), and Eclipse/Talon (very far from being complete).
Of course, nothing wrong with %$@! 24... err, with 240's
(And NICO is [usually] very good.)...now all I need is [another] beater
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r34 gtr
- Posts: 8909
- Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 9:33 am
- Car: 98 Nissan Frontier XE 4x4
95.5 Audi URS6 Avant 5spd
03 BMW 330i ZHP 6spd
89 Nissan 240SX base CA18DET - Location: Creepin' in your crawl space
- Contact:
i love the look of the 97/98 240sx. the kouki front is pretty nice. for 8000, you could buy a s14 sr20det, a new turbo, front mount intercooler, clutch, head gasket, fuel pump, necessary valvetrain strengthening bits, some shocks and springs, boost controller, re-tuned ecu, etc. assuming the car doesnt factor into the 8000 bucks, you could have a really nice little car making 300whp or so (if you chose to) and handling very well.
i know the porsche 951 is a nice car, and is quite fast stock. however, there are som things about it that lead me to believe it is quite poorly designed. not saying i wouldnt love to have one, and not saying that it is inferior but i dont think porsche was really trying when they built it. the car runs 1.2 bar of boost stock. at this setting, it only makes about 220hp. the s is a bit better, making 246 or 250 or something. a stock sr20det makes 225hp at 7psi of boost, quite similar power but with half as much pressure. now i know the 944s handle quite well, as my friend has 2, but i was shocked to learn it uses TORSION BARS for the rear suspension. why porsche? that was outdated in the 70s! and the spring rates and dampening rates are only a little bit higher than on my s13. im not convinced it handles any better, and with my ca18det power - as little as it is, he cant touch me on any kind of course.
i know full well too the price of a good 951. they go for way more than they are supposed to. a 951 in as good a condition as you could find a 98 240sx would run you somewhere in the neighborhood of 18 grand. and the 240sx would be less than half of the price. take the money and throw it back into the 240sx and youll kill a 951.
on the side of the porsche though, everything on those cars feels so solid. the transmission is wonderful, it is nearly impossible to screw up shifting with. the doors feel very heavy and solid, and so on. a word of warning though, a 944 will be written off in a heartbeat if that hatch is broken. it costs about half as much as the car itself. and those windshields are not cheap either, as they have the radio antenna built into them. its quite reliable though, and neither have given my friend problems. good luck with whichever car you choose.
- tim
i know the porsche 951 is a nice car, and is quite fast stock. however, there are som things about it that lead me to believe it is quite poorly designed. not saying i wouldnt love to have one, and not saying that it is inferior but i dont think porsche was really trying when they built it. the car runs 1.2 bar of boost stock. at this setting, it only makes about 220hp. the s is a bit better, making 246 or 250 or something. a stock sr20det makes 225hp at 7psi of boost, quite similar power but with half as much pressure. now i know the 944s handle quite well, as my friend has 2, but i was shocked to learn it uses TORSION BARS for the rear suspension. why porsche? that was outdated in the 70s! and the spring rates and dampening rates are only a little bit higher than on my s13. im not convinced it handles any better, and with my ca18det power - as little as it is, he cant touch me on any kind of course.
i know full well too the price of a good 951. they go for way more than they are supposed to. a 951 in as good a condition as you could find a 98 240sx would run you somewhere in the neighborhood of 18 grand. and the 240sx would be less than half of the price. take the money and throw it back into the 240sx and youll kill a 951.
on the side of the porsche though, everything on those cars feels so solid. the transmission is wonderful, it is nearly impossible to screw up shifting with. the doors feel very heavy and solid, and so on. a word of warning though, a 944 will be written off in a heartbeat if that hatch is broken. it costs about half as much as the car itself. and those windshields are not cheap either, as they have the radio antenna built into them. its quite reliable though, and neither have given my friend problems. good luck with whichever car you choose.
- tim
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r34 gtr
- Posts: 8909
- Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 9:33 am
- Car: 98 Nissan Frontier XE 4x4
95.5 Audi URS6 Avant 5spd
03 BMW 330i ZHP 6spd
89 Nissan 240SX base CA18DET - Location: Creepin' in your crawl space
- Contact:
oh, and have you ever looked at that rediculous mess under the hood of a 944? you cant get to ANYTHING. i friggin love my engine bay, i can reach anything in there.
oh, and i agree with stutt 944, if you go with the porsche, get a regular 951. the s is too much for what little you get. you can get a lot more power and handling for the difference if you buy aftermarket goodies. luckily, there is no lack of support for either of the cars.
- tim
oh, and i agree with stutt 944, if you go with the porsche, get a regular 951. the s is too much for what little you get. you can get a lot more power and handling for the difference if you buy aftermarket goodies. luckily, there is no lack of support for either of the cars.
- tim
1989 hatchback I rode around alot in the early 90's. My best friends car....plain seats and some rattles.
I realize any car can be made into a terror...I mentioned the 240sx seems to be able to be done 'semi reasonably'.
As far as working on the car...I have built 2 mustangs, 1 VW VR6, my saturn of course, and my father and I are working on his Bronco 351 to 408 (450HP/450TQ) build up to tow his Dusky with. I am 32 by the way, so I know what I am up against. If a mechanic can do it I can also. Save the machining and that sort of thing that buying the tools would be outrageous....still throw the block on a sheet of plastic and take it down to the machinist
I just have no desire for car payments and would rather by a sub $10k car out right. I am tried of messing around with FWD and dumping money into a car that just doesn't do it all for me (handling and performance as well as creature comforts).
I was in a new style 240SX recently and liked what I saw.
I also like the more uncommon cars...the Talon/Eclipse are everywhere and I don't care for AWD and without it they are FWD, the Paseo is cheesy, XT6 not my kind of car looks wise (the old style subaru Imprezza I like, but too rare to find, I found two absolute basket cases when I looked last and nothing else close enough to drive to).
I need something to cart around the occasional client also so the need for at least some kind of backseat is needed.
Å
I realize any car can be made into a terror...I mentioned the 240sx seems to be able to be done 'semi reasonably'.
As far as working on the car...I have built 2 mustangs, 1 VW VR6, my saturn of course, and my father and I are working on his Bronco 351 to 408 (450HP/450TQ) build up to tow his Dusky with
. I am 32 by the way, so I know what I am up against. If a mechanic can do it I can also. Save the machining and that sort of thing that buying the tools would be outrageous....still throw the block on a sheet of plastic and take it down to the machinist I just have no desire for car payments and would rather by a sub $10k car out right. I am tried of messing around with FWD and dumping money into a car that just doesn't do it all for me (handling and performance as well as creature comforts).
I was in a new style 240SX recently and liked what I saw.
I also like the more uncommon cars...the Talon/Eclipse are everywhere and I don't care for AWD and without it they are FWD, the Paseo is cheesy, XT6 not my kind of car looks wise (the old style subaru Imprezza I like, but too rare to find, I found two absolute basket cases when I looked last and nothing else close enough to drive to).
I need something to cart around the occasional client also so the need for at least some kind of backseat is needed.
Å
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easymmkay240sx
- Posts: 348
- Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 6:55 am
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Porschephile
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:38 am
- Car: '98 Maxima
- Location: Austin, TX
- Contact:
R34 Gtr, the 944 Turbo runs at .75bar boost, not 1.2. The Turbo S runs at .75bar also, and maintains it for longer due to a different k26 turbo, which is the reason it makes the extra power it does.
As for it being made inferior or poorly designed, that's not true. The 944 was originally designed in '82, with a big overhaul in '85.5 and the release of the 951 in '86. The car is a lot older. For example, instead of using a MAF, 944's use a "barn door" type MAS. These are much more inefficient. Though, many companies make MAF conversion kits that have made proven gains of 30-50+hp! Remember, the 951 is a 2.5L SOHC 8v i4 as well. For being a SOHC i4, it makes a damn good amount of power, especially with mods. Stock specs:
944 Turbo - 217hp 243lb/ft 0-60 6.2 152mph top speed 14.2 1/4mi944 Turbo S - 247hp 258lb/ft 0-60 5.5 162mph top speed 13.5 1/4mi
Porsche has used torsion bars for a long time, so that's why they used them on the 944. So what if it's old, they still handle good. If they used leaf springs though, that would have been going too far!
I'm a die-hard Nissan enthusiast (almost as much as I'm a Porsche fanatic) but, I've been to a lot of Nissan/240sx forums and I always see a recurrent theme. Lots of 240sx owners try to make excuses about how the 240sx is a better car, when many of them have no experience with 944's to make an educated statement. I love s13's and s14's to death, but they are not as good as the 944 when it comes down to it. I hate to say it but, it's true. I'm not being an elitist or anything, I'm just tired of hearing people try to say the 240sx is a better car stock for stock. I love both the 944's and s13/s14 though. In fact, at the moment I'm just finishing up a CA swap in my brother's '89 s13 hatchback (it will run today!). I have experience with both 944's, 951's and s13/s14's so I can truthfully say this stuff from experience.
As for it being made inferior or poorly designed, that's not true. The 944 was originally designed in '82, with a big overhaul in '85.5 and the release of the 951 in '86. The car is a lot older. For example, instead of using a MAF, 944's use a "barn door" type MAS. These are much more inefficient. Though, many companies make MAF conversion kits that have made proven gains of 30-50+hp! Remember, the 951 is a 2.5L SOHC 8v i4 as well. For being a SOHC i4, it makes a damn good amount of power, especially with mods. Stock specs:
944 Turbo - 217hp 243lb/ft 0-60 6.2 152mph top speed 14.2 1/4mi944 Turbo S - 247hp 258lb/ft 0-60 5.5 162mph top speed 13.5 1/4mi
Porsche has used torsion bars for a long time, so that's why they used them on the 944. So what if it's old, they still handle good. If they used leaf springs though, that would have been going too far!
I'm a die-hard Nissan enthusiast (almost as much as I'm a Porsche fanatic) but, I've been to a lot of Nissan/240sx forums and I always see a recurrent theme. Lots of 240sx owners try to make excuses about how the 240sx is a better car, when many of them have no experience with 944's to make an educated statement. I love s13's and s14's to death, but they are not as good as the 944 when it comes down to it. I hate to say it but, it's true. I'm not being an elitist or anything, I'm just tired of hearing people try to say the 240sx is a better car stock for stock. I love both the 944's and s13/s14 though. In fact, at the moment I'm just finishing up a CA swap in my brother's '89 s13 hatchback (it will run today!). I have experience with both 944's, 951's and s13/s14's so I can truthfully say this stuff from experience.
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droptopsilvia
- Posts: 348
- Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 7:48 am
hmmmm....nissan...porsche....nissan...porsche!!!!!
lets see if you dont wanna pay out the Azz for parts and maintainence then the nissan would be your best bet....
however, if you want a beautifully crafted machine, german engineering and an overall head turner.....porsche baby....what? its a porsche, as much as I like nissan and all nothing beats a german car except for an italian one!
lets see if you dont wanna pay out the Azz for parts and maintainence then the nissan would be your best bet....
however, if you want a beautifully crafted machine, german engineering and an overall head turner.....porsche baby....what? its a porsche, as much as I like nissan and all nothing beats a german car except for an italian one!
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Porschephile
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:38 am
- Car: '98 Maxima
- Location: Austin, TX
- Contact:
The standard SOHC 944 ('83-89, Non S/S2) is comparable in terms of acceleration to the Ka24DE s13/s14. All are low 16sec cars stock. Although, I've been surprised with all the factory freak s14's I've seen! A guy I know with a stock s14 ran a 15.6 bone stock, stock clutch, etc. The 944 S runs 15's, and the S2 is a high 14sec car.
As far as labor, hell yes, labor is damn expensive on Porsches! Most shops charge $3500+ labor alone for older 911 engine rebuilds, hence the reason an older 911 engine build usually costs an easy $6-8k (you can do them far cheaper if you do it yourself). It's better to take the time and learn how to do it yourself, and save a lot of money in the process. Labor excluded, 944's can be maintained for a not too outrageous amount of money. Certain things are very expensive, like stock clutches costing $500-600 for the kit! Though, many of the regular maintenance items are about the same price as any other car.
Alkemyst, to answer your question, I would get a regular 944 Turbo.
As far as labor, hell yes, labor is damn expensive on Porsches! Most shops charge $3500+ labor alone for older 911 engine rebuilds, hence the reason an older 911 engine build usually costs an easy $6-8k (you can do them far cheaper if you do it yourself). It's better to take the time and learn how to do it yourself, and save a lot of money in the process. Labor excluded, 944's can be maintained for a not too outrageous amount of money. Certain things are very expensive, like stock clutches costing $500-600 for the kit! Though, many of the regular maintenance items are about the same price as any other car.
Alkemyst, to answer your question, I would get a regular 944 Turbo.
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Porschephile
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:38 am
- Car: '98 Maxima
- Location: Austin, TX
- Contact:
The 951S is usually quite a bit more expensive. Some of them go for $14-18k in mint condition. You can get a regular 951 for $8k in fairly decent condition, $10k for a great example. That's a better buy than an s14. Quite often, I usually see s14's going for $6-8k, and I've seen some going for as much as $12-14k from people that are real jerks.
I have no doubts that if I went with the Porsche at 9/10's stock for stock I'd get smoked in a 240sx.
However, buy in for the Porsche is at least $12 for the 88/89 and more like $15-25k now that everyone is taking out equity lines to pick them up
Here are the facts I am stuck with:
1996 Saturn SC2: 100k miles, never had a clutch job or timing chain yet = $800-1000. Engine is tired, timing chain is 1/2 the hours of an engine rebuild = $500 for a salvage dropin $2000-4000 of a nice rebuild.
1997-1998 240SX SE: about $7-9000 for a nice clean one
1988-1989 944 Turbo S: $15000-25000
Value of my car: $3600 fair price (that's low book and mine is clean and limited to 1 in 1500 models)....
net cost to upgrade: 240sx about $3400-5400944 about $11400++++
cost to keep my car: $2800-5000 power = 175hp (if I am lucky) my weight is about 2450lbs
I just think with the 240SX finding parts is easy, insurance is cheaper, take 1/2 the difference in price and I should be in 12's in the 1/4, have great handling and a nice interior/stereo...
Again on a track I'd now be in a totally different class and get beat again probably, but for a lower cost, fun car that I am not going to see coming and going on every road, I am thinking the 240sx is going to be the way for me to go.
Å
However, buy in for the Porsche is at least $12 for the 88/89 and more like $15-25k now that everyone is taking out equity lines to pick them up
Here are the facts I am stuck with:
1996 Saturn SC2: 100k miles, never had a clutch job or timing chain yet = $800-1000. Engine is tired, timing chain is 1/2 the hours of an engine rebuild = $500 for a salvage dropin $2000-4000 of a nice rebuild.
1997-1998 240SX SE: about $7-9000 for a nice clean one
1988-1989 944 Turbo S: $15000-25000
Value of my car: $3600 fair price (that's low book and mine is clean and limited to 1 in 1500 models)....
net cost to upgrade: 240sx about $3400-5400944 about $11400++++
cost to keep my car: $2800-5000 power = 175hp (if I am lucky) my weight is about 2450lbs
I just think with the 240SX finding parts is easy, insurance is cheaper, take 1/2 the difference in price and I should be in 12's in the 1/4, have great handling and a nice interior/stereo...
Again on a track I'd now be in a totally different class and get beat again probably, but for a lower cost, fun car that I am not going to see coming and going on every road, I am thinking the 240sx is going to be the way for me to go.
Å
Porschephile wrote:The 951S is usually quite a bit more expensive. Some of them go for $14-18k in mint condition. You can get a regular 951 for $8k in fairly decent condition, $10k for a great example. That's a better buy than an s14. Quite often, I usually see s14's going for $6-8k, and I've seen some going for as much as $12-14k from people that are real jerks.
Yeah I hate those types of jerks...
The thing I dislike on the 951S is any thing interior or glass related (things that get screwed in a vandalism) is a PITA to get covered (I know about the windshield and rear hatch issues...believe it or not my particular model saturn has a non-standard windshield also, last quote was $500 (I polished it to perfection instead))
Plus I am going to probably have to travel for the right 944....and the average wait time for many is 6months to a year. If I had a car I knew was not going to possibly need repairs I'd wait, but anything I do to my car will not add into a higher resell and I already have about $4000 in mods on it (wheels, stereo, intake, exhaust, suspensions, brakes, shifter, pedals, +++)...
I'd really like the 951S/952 but there is a waiting list with people willing to outbid me
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Porschephile
- Posts: 177
- Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 8:38 am
- Car: '98 Maxima
- Location: Austin, TX
- Contact:
Alkemyst, why are you stuck on the 951S? You can find decent Non S 944 Turbos for around $8k. $10-12k will get you a pretty much perfect condition low-mileage example.
The 951S stock does a 13.5. It's been proven that a MAF upgrade (usually $1.4-1.7k, damn pricey!) and chip alone can be good for about a 12.9 (total price about $1.7-2k). On top of that, top end speed and power is insane! I've talked to many a 951 owner with around 400rwhp, and a lot of them are seeing top speeds are 180+ mph! CD/aerodynamics are good on 951's. Porsches aren't made for drag racing anyways. I'd rather be at a road track than a drag track if I was driving a Porsche.
If you are just trying to get your best bang for the buck in making a 12sec car, you'd be better off just doing some sort of swap on your s14. It definitely would be a lot cheaper.
The 951S stock does a 13.5. It's been proven that a MAF upgrade (usually $1.4-1.7k, damn pricey!) and chip alone can be good for about a 12.9 (total price about $1.7-2k). On top of that, top end speed and power is insane! I've talked to many a 951 owner with around 400rwhp, and a lot of them are seeing top speeds are 180+ mph! CD/aerodynamics are good on 951's. Porsches aren't made for drag racing anyways. I'd rather be at a road track than a drag track if I was driving a Porsche.
If you are just trying to get your best bang for the buck in making a 12sec car, you'd be better off just doing some sort of swap on your s14. It definitely would be a lot cheaper.
I don't have a S14 yet....I have a Saturn....
It's true the non S 951 will come in at tops 12k...many in the 8k range.
It's more than likely going to take traveling to find a nice one though. I am still debating it all. I'd like to keep it all close to $7k in purchase after the sale of my car (around $10k total)...
Most say you really need to have $4k in reserve at purchase of the Porsche....that's sort of scary....as many happy stories there are there are also the stories of the money pit. I have been following Rennlist.org for about two years or more now.
It was almost a done deal for the next car until I have had 3 stories of the 240sx being compared to the 944...
The next thing is I'd be doing 1/4 mile type things mainly....I do occasionally do road 'work', and perhaps I'd get more active with SCCA (non-competition, just for fun) now....the thing is even a little 1/4 mile stuff is bad on the 944....I heard that was the biggest plus for the 240sx. 944 with some easy mods gets in the the low 13's high 12's and then it's really hard to go beyond.
Of course top speeds of 150+ are interesting, but I doubt I will drive that fast now....I had a couple 145 or so runs (my rev limiter/fuel cutoff in top gear was hit)....and I have been stopped at 137 once in a show car and luckily got out of that ticket (I was 18 or 19 at the time, my insurance would have been ruined).
I am reading the forums more and more....it just seems a whole lot easier to do a 240sx than 944 as far was getting parts and what not....my Saturn has been a pain in the rear to do....my VW VR6 was almost impossible (in 1997), but my two mustangs I could practially pick up a set of fuel injectors in a blister pack at Publix.
hehe
thanks for all the help, and we will see.
It's true the non S 951 will come in at tops 12k...many in the 8k range.
It's more than likely going to take traveling to find a nice one though. I am still debating it all. I'd like to keep it all close to $7k in purchase after the sale of my car (around $10k total)...
Most say you really need to have $4k in reserve at purchase of the Porsche....that's sort of scary....as many happy stories there are there are also the stories of the money pit. I have been following Rennlist.org for about two years or more now.
It was almost a done deal for the next car until I have had 3 stories of the 240sx being compared to the 944...
The next thing is I'd be doing 1/4 mile type things mainly....I do occasionally do road 'work', and perhaps I'd get more active with SCCA (non-competition, just for fun) now....the thing is even a little 1/4 mile stuff is bad on the 944....I heard that was the biggest plus for the 240sx. 944 with some easy mods gets in the the low 13's high 12's and then it's really hard to go beyond.
Of course top speeds of 150+ are interesting, but I doubt I will drive that fast now....I had a couple 145 or so runs (my rev limiter/fuel cutoff in top gear was hit)....and I have been stopped at 137 once in a show car and luckily got out of that ticket (I was 18 or 19 at the time, my insurance would have been ruined).
I am reading the forums more and more....it just seems a whole lot easier to do a 240sx than 944 as far was getting parts and what not....my Saturn has been a pain in the rear to do....my VW VR6 was almost impossible (in 1997), but my two mustangs I could practially pick up a set of fuel injectors in a blister pack at Publix
.hehe
thanks for all the help, and we will see.
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r34 gtr
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porschephile, i stand corrected. i am aware that it is an 8v i4, and that it uses the barn door type MAS. i must say that they are nice cars, and no doubt any of them could roll my car up and smoke it. yes i am biased towards my 240sx, i will not try to deny it. ive been fed a lot of bad information about the 944 due to the fact that my friend who has the 2 is a moron.
ive seen 951's go for a lot of money on ebay, more than i know they are worth, which is why i believe it could be a little hard to get a good one for what theyre worth.
cost-effective wise, the s14 could well be less expensive, but you could get lucky and find a 951 for a great price. who knows.
now, upgrade wise, id say get a 951 and swap the 16v head from a s2 on it. those can be quite formidable. the only 944 i have had the pleasure of driving/riding in is a near-stock 88 n/a. its quite slow. however, might i add that i have never ridden in a stock 240sx, or even a 240sx with any form of ka, sr, rb or anything in it. his 944 may well handle better than my 89 240sx with the sport suspension package, but i can compensate for the things i lack with power, so a comparison by me is a little unfair.
- tim
ive seen 951's go for a lot of money on ebay, more than i know they are worth, which is why i believe it could be a little hard to get a good one for what theyre worth.
cost-effective wise, the s14 could well be less expensive, but you could get lucky and find a 951 for a great price. who knows.
now, upgrade wise, id say get a 951 and swap the 16v head from a s2 on it. those can be quite formidable. the only 944 i have had the pleasure of driving/riding in is a near-stock 88 n/a. its quite slow. however, might i add that i have never ridden in a stock 240sx, or even a 240sx with any form of ka, sr, rb or anything in it. his 944 may well handle better than my 89 240sx with the sport suspension package, but i can compensate for the things i lack with power, so a comparison by me is a little unfair.
- tim
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Porschephile
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Well, the whole problem with 944's, and many other Porsches for that matter is that there are a lot of people who don't properly maintain them. Then those people sell them to someone else who ends up finding out they have to replace all this expensive stuff that broke from improper maintenance. They can be very reliable cars but, that's why it's best to buy the most expensive one you can afford and pay for a PPI inspection (Porsche dealers perform these for $100-200) to identify any potential problems early. It's too much to deal with for a lot of people, which is why the 240sx is so awesome. They are relatively cheap and even with improper maintenance they usually still last a long time. Another problem is there are TONS of people out there that sell their Porsches for way over the market value. I saw a dealer here in TX selling a 80k mile decent condition '86 951 for $20k!!! Though, I saw an '87 951 in mint condition with just 45k miles for $12k. It can get pretty ridiculous like that.
Since 944/968 engines aren't usually all that expensive, a better mod or swap to do would be a s2 or 968 3.0l i4. It's 16v and is the biggest production 4cyl ever made. Those make some serious power in turbocharged form. I will shutup now before I type a novel.....
Since 944/968 engines aren't usually all that expensive, a better mod or swap to do would be a s2 or 968 3.0l i4. It's 16v and is the biggest production 4cyl ever made. Those make some serious power in turbocharged form. I will shutup now before I type a novel.....
yesss...the variocam came into play on that 968 3.0. niiice. a completely different motorset than that audi 2.5, which came from the 924. i never had much of a liking for a 924. i've had my eyes on 2.0 914's lately. a 914-6 (a 73 preferrably) would kick ***. and the dealers rape you on the used cars. but they ARE certified/guaranteed in many ways, and you can't ignore the fact that even THEY approve the selling.
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Porschephile
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My dad had a Porsche 944 new in 1985 and liked it. 6 years later he was working for Nissan and got to drive a 240 on a road course. I remember him always saying that it outperformed the 944. But his biggest rave was that it outhandled the 944. I personally have a big attachment to both cars. Over the summer I would teach drivers ed. I would go on this course that drove by an 88 944 Turbo S that was just sitting in this guy's yard. He would mow his grass around it. I dont think it ran, but there was no rust and I always wanted to stop and ask if he'd sell it, but I'm a poor college student so I didnt. If I was going to buy a 240 or a 944 Turbo... I would have to drive both of them again. Good Luck!
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Porschephile
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Simmsled wrote:My dad had a Porsche 944 new in 1985 and liked it. 6 years later he was working for Nissan and got to drive a 240 on a road course. I remember him always saying that it outperformed the 944. But his biggest rave was that it outhandled the 944. I personally have a big attachment to both cars.
Well, I hate to say it but, your dad was wrong. Stock for stock the 944 handles better. I've ridden in and driven many 240's and 944's. That includes the following:
'84 944'85.5 944'86 944 Turbo'87 944 Turbo (about 350rwhp, fast as hell!)'87 944 S'90 944 S2 cabriolet *dead suspension from hell!
bad example'89 S13 Hatchback'89 S13 Coupe'91 S13 Hatchback'96 S14
Maybe that 240 had some minor suspension mods or something. When it comes to braking, the 944 has better brakes as well (951's have 4 piston calipers). I can't comment on stock s14 brakes but, I've been in stock s13's under heavy braking and they SUCK! Brake fade from hell, and they were smoking, though it wasn't very heavy use and the pads/rotors weren't more than 1yr old. The s13's I've been in also have quite a bit of body roll, while 944's stay a bit more flat. In terms of power/acceleration, the n/a SOHC 944 is similar in performance to the Ka24de 240sx's, although it is more geared toward top-end power so low-end can be a little lacking. The S and S2 are quite a bit faster.
All in all, guess what my conclusion is....They are both great cars! They both have positives and negatives so buy what you want and be happy with it because you will still have a decent sports car no matter which one you choose.
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Porschephile
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You can really save a lot of dough if you work on German cars yourself.