Looking at these vehicles - Opinions anyone?

[Kompresshun]

So we've been going back and forth with this for a while, but we've finally decided that it's time to dump the Jeep. It gets HORRIBLE fuel mileage, because we mainly drive it in the city and we barely put any of the features of a larger SUV to use. We never use the third row seating, we never tow anything, and we haven't really needed the 4-wheel drive in quite some time. Right now it gets 12-13mpg city and you're lucky to squeeze 18mpg out on the highway on normal road trips. We absolutely love the room it has, but it's also a bit underpowered for the amount of gas it guzzles. That being said - we are by no means pushed to get out of it right away, but if the right deal comes along, then we will be replacing it.

What we're looking for is something either in small SUV form, or wagon/MAYBE minivan form. The wagon/minivan category is a hard sell on most models for the wife and trust me, i've thrown almost all of the cool ones out there. I'd absolutely love to have a Volvo or a Subaru, but the only thing out of those she seems somewhat interested in is the Outback. Hatchbacks will not work - period.

It needs to get high teens in the city and mid to high 20's on the highway. Must have room for a reasonable amount of luggage on trips and needs to be reliable. Other than that, i'm open to any suggestions. Price range is $17k or less.

Here's what we're looking at so far:

2006-2010 Mazda 5:



We both really like these a lot. They offer a lot of room, great fuel economy, and have a lot of features of a minivan, without completely being one. I've driven a couple and have really liked them, but the wife hasn't yet, so we're going to look at one on Monday. These can easily be had for $15k or less with low mileage. Reviews seem to be good on them, other than a power steering pump recall on them, which is fully covered by Mazda anyways.

2008-2012 Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner/Mazda Tribute:



My wife's cousin bought one last year. I drove it and loved everything about it - only to be shocked to find out it was a 4cyl too. Good fuel economy with the 4cyl and still offers a lot of space in a small package. Not sure about reliability, but reviews seem to be good on them.

2008+ Saturn Vue:



Seem to have decent reviews and gets good fuel economy in 4cyl form.

Others we're looking into as well, but know very little about so far:

Mazda CX7
Chevrolet Equinox/Pontiac Torrent
Toyota RAV4

Right now i'm open to suggestions. I'd like to hear more on the pictured vehicles above though, as those are the current ones we're most interested it. Namely the Mazda5 - it seems to be the most attractive deal out of all of them, but we do have concerns of not having an SUV at all anymore due to winter conditions.

[MinisterofDOOM]

As I said in some other thread recently, I'm pretty fond of the Escape. I like how they drive and how they look. And I know a lot of people who own them and find them to be trouble-free.

Older versions of GM's Theta crossovers are meh. I'd LIKE to like them. But in practice I find that I can't. They offer decent fuel economy but feel extremely underpowered...the kind of underpowered that makes merging with traffic nerve-wracking. The one exception is the Honda-powered V6 model from the first generation Vue. This year GM started putting the 3.6 liter in the Theta cars to fix this problem, but older ones are stuck with the 3 liter on the high end (which feels dangerously gutless) and fours on the low end (which are obviously even MORE gutless). None of them match what you described in the Escape, where even the base four feels more than adequate and the 6 feels outstanding.
They're also kinda goofy-looking, too.

The Mazda 5 is a neat concept. Small, lightweight, but spacious. You can get a manual, too! BUT...I have a hard time seeing the appeal when they only seat one more than a sedan. Unless you're hauling a young-enough, big-enough family to necessitate having 6 seats all the time, you won't really benefit much from the 5 versus any random sedan or wagon.

[Eikon]

I like the Mazda 5, but dislike the Ford CUV and Saturn Vue's very much.

Rav4 is good. How about Rogue (if you can get used to CVT)?

[MinisterofDOOM]

How about Rogue (if you can get used to CVT)?

QR25.

A Rogue with a regular auto or manual and the MR16DDT from the Juke would be a much more appealing prospect.

[Kompresshun]

How about Rogue (if you can get used to CVT)?

I don't hate the Rogue, but I don't love it for two big reasons - it has a QR25 and a CVT. We are going to drive one when we go look at the Mazda 5, but it just looks like it may be a little less space than I would care for. I can't confirm that though until I look it over.

Did you have any major complaints about your Rogue?

Another added contender is the Suzuki Grand Vitara:



I've always really liked Suzuki SUVs. It's still a true RWD vehicle too, which really makes me happy. I can't think of another SUV on the market in the past few years that is this size and relies on RWD still. Seems like it's worth looking at, even though the fuel economy is slightly less than I would like.

[Kompresshun]

How about Rogue (if you can get used to CVT)?

QR25.

A Rogue with a regular auto or manual and the MR16DDT from the Juke would be a much more appealing prospect.

^This.

[Eikon]

There is nothing wrong with the QR25. I've had two of them and never a single problem with either.

I liked the Rogue.. sold it because I didn't need it. I had the my civic to pile highway miles on and I knew I wanted a sports car come spring. So I traded it in when I got my wife her Sonata.

CVT was ok... especially if your wife is driving it mostly. She probably won't care either way. You would double your gas milage over the Jeep.

The only problem was size.. it's small.. not much cargo space. Same as you'd get with Rav4 or any of the other small SUV's.


Have you looked at wagons? Jetta Sportwagon not sure on price of those? subie wagons are nice, but suck on gas.

[Kompresshun]

I'll take a closer look at the Rogue when we go to look then. I don't think she would care about the CVT either, but I am concerned about cargo space. This would still be our primary vehicle, so it would be going on a lot of longer trips.

She is pretty opposed to a wagon. I showed her an '08 Legacy Outback tonight at lot we stopped at - she was not interested. I don't know what it is, but I can't sell her on a wagon at all - which makes me quite sad. I love wagons.

[Jesda]

The later Vues are nice. Some of the earlier ones (the boxy body), even the Redlines with Honda powertrains, had transmission issues.

The Equinox and Torrent are quiet and spacious, but I know little about them beyond that. Cute-utes are mostly a mystery to me. I know more about the CX7, CX9, Enclave/Acadia/Outlook, and Terrain.

GM's 3.6 before 2010 has potential timing chain issues.

[Bubba1]

want AWD? you will take a minor hit at the gas pump

best two small SUVS: Honda CRV or toyoter RAV-4.

Vue was probably the best of the Saturn lineup, but that's not saying much. there are better vehicles out there.

If you want a bigger Jeep sized SUV and are concerned about gas mileage, and your wife is unlikely to go ever off road with it, the Toyota Highlander has an excellent reputation and should get you mid 20's. It's Camry based and the size of the more rugged 4 Runner.

VW makes a very good car, especially their new diesels, which get terrific mileage with gobs of torque, but you are literally a slave to the dealership. That's how they're designed. If you intend to keep your car beyond the warranty, I'd avoid them.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

A friend of mine got a 4cyl AWD Vue and loves it.
+1 for CRV and Rav-4, although I think you'd find just as much room in the rogue (depending on model year).

[Kompresshun]

We're going Monday to look at a Mazda 5, an Escape, a Mercury Mariner, and a Suzuki XL7. I'm pretty sure they have a Rogue and a RAV4 too, so we'll take a look at those as well. The Mazda 5 seems to be the favorite still so far, but we have plenty of time to shop if none of these seem like they will work.

The wife seems really interested in small crossovers, but i'm not really interested in downsizing THAT much. She sent me a link to a Dodge Caliber today and I told her that she had lost her mind

I really wish I could sell her on a wagon of some kinda, because I feel like it would be a much better all around solution for us. There are so many wagons out there that would fit the bill really well, but I have to get her to drive one to consider it.

Looking back now, we sorta got pushed into the Jeep and it was a lot bigger than we needed even then. I don't regret getting it, but now it's become more of a luxury to have and we don't put any of those luxuries to use. I like the idea of still having a third row of seats, but it's not really necessary at all.

While i'm thinking about it - How are Dodge Journey's? Does anybody know anything good or bad about them? A couple of our friends have them and seem to like them. They're in our price range and seem to fall under what we're looking for. I'm just not a huge fan of anything Chrysler made before Fiat came into the picture.

[Bubba1]

I don't want to bash the Dodge Journey, which is based on the much maligned Avenger.

If you Can find a
positive Review of
A Dodge Journey,
I'd be imPressed

I would only advise geting a Journey if you planned to lease it, so you can return it before it falls apart.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Garbage. To be honest, I'm surprised your commander is still rolling on 4 wheels.

[Kompresshun]

Thanks for the input on the Journey guys. I was a little concerned about them, but the wife kept asking me about them.

Garbage. To be honest, I'm surprised your commander is still rolling on 4 wheels.

Me too. I absolutely hate anything made by Chrysler - but somehow it has turned out to be the most solid SUV i've ever owned. It's been easy to work on, cheap to repair, and the build quality has really impressed me. That's one reason i'm not pressed to get rid of it either... i'd honestly trust driving it for another 5 years if we had to. We've put about 30k miles on it and the only things it has needed is tires and front brakes. Oh and I changed the spark plugs just because I felt like it was probably due.

From what i've understood from other owners - something about the combination with this model made them extremely reliable. Owners of the 4.7L V8 and Hemi models seem to have a lot more issues, but the V6 model had a different transmission and transfer case, which made for a great combination. It is pretty gutless, but it's a freakin' tank to drive around in and plow through the elements.

[nissangirl74]

What about a used Murano?

[Kompresshun]

What about a used Murano?

I like the Murano but I have my issues with it - One being that it's hard to find one in our price range with less than 100k miles and the other being it has the CVT in it. I have no interest in owning a CVT in the year range we would be looking at either.

I also really don't want to maintain another Nissan right now honestly... The QX4 and I30 both were always expensive to maintain, even with the simple stuff. The Maxima has been an absolute nightmare since i've had it, but I can't really put that under the same category for now. Don't get me wrong - I still enjoy Nissan stuff a lot, but I haven't been able to find anything Nissan that really comes close to fitting the bill in this case. My feelings aside though - Kristen is also absolutely opposed to owning another Nissan anytime soon. She doesn't care if I have one, but she refuses to have one again for herself.

[nissangirl74]

Well understood. I have not driven the others in question but just based on principle and reputation, I would stay away from everything Mopar related.

[asoomal]

What's up with all the Chrysler hate?

We've had many Chrysler's and they were all fine.

A bunch of Caravans, Dynasty, New Yorkers, Neons (yep, Neons, surprisingly reliable), Intrepids and Sebrings.

My father used to run a car rental business and the Mopars were the only one's that would come back to us without any issues. GM did well too.

However the Fords and the imports.....

[Bubba1]

What's up with all the Chrysler hate?

< It's not hate, its past experience. I leased a total of 4 of them (3 LHS's and a 300M), and it was the same story. Well designed, well engineered, comfortable, nice drivers BUT built like crap with substandard components that fail prematurely. Each one got progressively more troublesome until I had enough and switched to Japanese makes.

[Kompresshun]

^Same deal. It's not hate as much as past experience. Even though our Jeep Commander has been great, i've had plenty of bad experience with Mopars to warrant not trusting them. My experience has mirrored everything that Joel mentioned about.

Just the Grand Cherokee I had alone was enough of a mess to not want to own one again. Transmission failed at 96k miles, Exhaust manifold cracked twice, all of the interior power components took a crap within months of each other and all of this with right at 100k miles on it. I could go on and on with issues that thing had.

All cars have their issues though - but with Mopar, you take the frequency of component failure and multiply it by 3 or more. Yeah i've had my fair share of issues with other vehicles too, but there's just something about Mopar vehicles that just scream RUN AWAY, RUN FAR FAR AWAY when you look at them. If it were just one here and there, I would understand, but it's MUCH MUCH harder to find a good Mopar product than it is anything else. There's also a reason you can get a much newer, lower mileage Mopar cheaper than anything else too...

[MuranoDriver]

How about a Murano?

I get quite good gas mileage with the CVT. Close to what the Rogue gets but have the power when I want it.

[Gold Digger]

I didn't read all the responses, but I'm gonna speak from personal experience on the Mazda.

My wife and I bought a 2011 Premacy (Mazda 5 in the U.S.) and we LOVE it!!!

While the two back seats are pretty much useless for anyone over the age of 12, but if they are folded down, you get tons of room.

The 2.0L engine is pretty peppy and gets great gas mileage.

The front seats are comfy and I like them more than my GT-R's seats. The only thing I don't like about the seats are the headrests. They angle forward and don't support my neck at all. There's just a big gaping space between my head and shoulders. Middle seats are also really comfy and the headrests are better than the front. The back seat's headrests SUCK unless they are up, but then you can't see out the back hatch window, but if you're not using the back seats, no worries. And you can pack the back end up to the roof with tons of stuff.

The cockpit is nicely laid out and the gauges are easy to read out, the buttons for the HVAC are simple and work well.

I drove ours over 1500 miles back in May to go up north and I never felt fatigued the whole way up or back.

Now, the current gen is a little different inside and outside, but they are still pretty much the same car. If you can nab one for between $17k-$12k (maybe less depending on what year) fully loaded, you'll be good.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Fun fact:
Nissan sells rebadged Mazda 5s as Lafestas in Japanland. The car looks SO MUCH BETTER without that damned grin.

[Gold Digger]

Chris,

I tell my wife over and over again had I known that Nissan was getting a new Lafesta that was the Premacy, I would have waited. We found out a week after signing our finance papers that Nissan was going to do it, but that the new Lafesta wasn't going to debut till mid September. We needed a new car before then as we had already sold her old car.

The Nissan also doesn't have that swooshy things on the front fenders/doors, either.

[Kompresshun]

Thanks for the input guys!

We went to a dealership yesterday locally, after being recommended by a friend. We only test drove the Mazda 5 and got the Jeep appraised yesterday. We're waiting to see if they can come up with a better offer on our Jeep first, before we go any further. I also still want to drive a few of the vehicles mentioned above still too, but we really liked the Mazda 5 a lot. I'm still really interested in the Escape and the RAV4 though, so i'd like to at least look at those before we get anything.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The Nissan also doesn't have that swooshy things on the front fenders/doors, either.

I HATE that swooshy bit. It's almost invisible most of the time but when you catch it in the right light it ruins the car. Someone should be fired.

[nissangirl74]

Drive everything. You never know when you'll luck up on something that wasn't even on the list.

[Mr1der]

Grand Caravan.

I've been preaching it for years, minivans rule over crossovers.

Better mileage, more cargo and god bless sliding doors.

A crossover is merely an idiot on a car chassis.

[Kompresshun]

So we went and checked out a few more vehicles today, along with getting a second appraisal on the Jeep. This was the dealership that we bought our old QX4 from and my I30 that I had, so I trust them a lot due to good experiences both times. Anyways... we looked at the Grand Vitara, but the wife wasn't a big fan. After talking with them though, we figured out that we might come out better to possibly buy something new.

They're crunching some figures for us right now, but it looks like we might end up picking up a new Rogue. The wife liked it a lot and the rebates on them right now are absolutely insane. I know I said no CVT, but with it being new and the wife also really liking it, I don't see anything wrong with it. It'll have a full warranty, so we shouldn't have much to worry about for quite a while. It's not set in stone yet, but that's the deal we're working on right now. We're still looking into some other stuff though, so we'll see what else we run accross.

EDIT: Here's a pic too