Lightweight sway bar for 240SX

[ITA240SX]

I'm looking for a lightweight sway bar for my ITA 240SX, and am not having much luck finding information on weight for the various manufacturers. Tanabe specifically mentions light weight as one of the advantages of their bars, but I'm assuming any of the hollow chromemoly type bars are going to be considerably lighter than a solid bar. Weight is more important to me than stiffness in this case, as I can tune the suspension with the spring/struts as needed.

Anybody know of a source for comparison of sway bars? Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,Earl

[blacksrjdm]

Most sway bars are mostly very similar to eachother weightwise anyway. A hollow sway bar would be useless. Do you know what a sway bar is supposed to do???? It is to stiffen up the suspension. Why would weight be a factor. And to have the weight of the piece mean more to you than the function of it, is just poor thinking. Tuning the struts and springs isnt gonna change the sway bars, or how they act. This doesnt make very much sense. I think you may be confused.

[ITA240SX]

Most sway bars are mostly very similar to eachother weightwise anyway. A hollow sway bar would be useless. Do you know what a sway bar is supposed to do???? It is to stiffen up the suspension. Why would weight be a factor. And to have the weight of the piece mean more to you than the function of it, is just poor thinking. Tuning the struts and springs isnt gonna change the sway bars, or how they act. This doesnt make very much sense. I think you may be confused.

Are you serious? Let's see, where to start; a) all sway bars ARE NOT similar in weight to each other, there are often times big differences, b) yes, I do know what sway bars do, thank you, c) if you have to ask why weight is a factor on a race car, you really shouldn't even be responding here, d) many cars come from the factory with hollow sway bars, and depending on the construction material a hollow bar can be just as stiff, if not stiffer than a solid one, e) in the future I would suggest you not comment on topics you have little or no knowledge about, f) I am frequently confused, but this is not one of those times.

[simmode1]

This may be a better venue for your question...

zeroforum/181

[blacksrjdm]

Are you serious? Let's see, where to start; a) all sway bars ARE NOT similar in weight to each other, there are often times big differences, b) yes, I do know what sway bars do, thank you, c) if you have to ask why weight is a factor on a race car, you really shouldn't even be responding here, d) many cars come from the factory with hollow sway bars, and depending on the construction material a hollow bar can be just as stiff, if not stiffer than a solid one, e) in the future I would suggest you not comment on topics you have little or no knowledge about, f) I am frequently confused, but this is not one of those times.

Then, if you are so smart, then call around to vendors and find out what these things weigh. Reguardless, I am choosing quality of the sway bar over the weight. I would go for a good name bar and would hope that that company would have factored in the weight issue. Or, if you are building a "race car" Go to the racing section of the forum and see what kind of bars people are using. Do some research and find the best part for you application. Want the car to be lighter, start a diet.

[glitched]

Then, if you are so smart, then call around to vendors and find out what these things weigh. Reguardless, I am choosing quality of the sway bar over the weight. I would go for a good name bar and would hope that that company would have factored in the weight issue. Or, if you are building a "race car" Go to the racing section of the forum and see what kind of bars people are using. Do some research and find the best part for you application. Want the car to be lighter, start a diet.

wow man, get a clue.he's got an ITA car. and yet you mock him as "If he's building a "race car""a new sway bar with new end bushings and end links thats even only slightly stiffer and slightly lighter would be better for him than any "good name brand bar" solid bar.

your post is more appropriate for a noob, high schooler, or street car that never see's the track. not someone with an ITA car.

[ITA240SX]

Then, if you are so smart, then call around to vendors and find out what these things weigh. Reguardless, I am choosing quality of the sway bar over the weight. I would go for a good name bar and would hope that that company would have factored in the weight issue..

Well, if you believe there is a correlation between the weight of the part (heavier=better) and the quality, then I suggest you do a little research - by that logic I should ditch my 13-lb K1s in favor of the 20+ lb OEM wheels? Or, better yet, go find some 25-lb steel wheels?

Or, if you are building a "race car" Go to the racing section of the forum and see what kind of bars people are using. Do some research and find the best part for you application.

Actually, I'm not building a "race car", I already have a "race car" I've been racing for a few years now; I am just looking for ways to improve it's performance. And forgive me for thinking that by asking a question about sway bars in the TECH/SUSPENSION forum I might be able to get an informed opinion...what was I thinking And silly me, I always thought asking questions WAS part of doing research...I must be really confused...

[blacksrjdm]

What is ITA?????????? And good luck with it, but, I still am gonna choose the quality of the brand over looking for a lighter bar.

And if this is for autoX, I dont even wanna hear it. I'll probably catch some sort of hell for this but, AutoX is a waste of time IMO and takes little skill. I went to 1 AutoX event in my Acura last year for the first time, competed, and won my class, also broke an axle 2nd run where everyone else got 4 runs. There were 40 some odd cars in my class, and I win the first time out in a bone stocker Integra, where my time was actually faster than the class above me. If you are racing on a race track, like VIR or otherwise, I have alot more respect, but never heard of ITA, might be out of the loop, but also, how was I supposed to know that anyway??

[ITA240SX]

First, my apologies for assuming - I spend 98% of my online time in racing forums, so I sometimes forget not everyone is on the same page. ITA stand for "Improved Touring-A", a class in SCCA's Club Racing program. It is real wheel-to-wheel racing, and we race on the same tracks you see the pros running; VIR, Mid-Ohio, Watkins Glen, Road Atlanta, etc. I do most of my racing at Summit Point, but have also raced at Pocono, VIR, and Roebling Road (near Savannah GA). I have a race this coming weekend at VIR, and am hoping to make a few improvements to help me keep up with the competition.

As far as autocross, I've never done it but I do know to be good at it, and to win against the best drivers you need a lot of skill and experience. Not a put down, but the fact that you won your first time out tells me that there weren't any top drivers in your class. A lot of pro road racers, including Randy Pobst, got their start autocrossing. It's different, and not for everyone, but it is one good way to get started in competitive autosports, and as you have seen it can be done with minimal investment. You can't say that about road racing - just the safety equipment alone needed for the car and driver can easily run $2k - $3k.
Modified by ITA240SX at 4:51 PM 5/5/2009

[glitched]

What is ITA?????????? And good luck with it, but, I still am gonna choose the quality of the brand over looking for a lighter bar.

And if this is for autoX, I dont even wanna hear it. I'll probably catch some sort of hell for this but, AutoX is a waste of time IMO and takes little skill. I went to 1 AutoX event in my Acura last year for the first time, competed, and won my class, also broke an axle 2nd run where everyone else got 4 runs. There were 40 some odd cars in my class, and I win the first time out in a bone stocker Integra, where my time was actually faster than the class above me. If you are racing on a race track, like VIR or otherwise, I have alot more respect, but never heard of ITA, might be out of the loop, but also, how was I supposed to know that anyway??

LOL, this is kind of how I feel at the moment:

[glitched]

Now to try and help out with some actual information:

Stock swaybars are hollow as well as several aftermarket replacements. Testing has found the tube is the strongest shape and while maintaining a proportionate wall thickness a tubular swaybar will provide only 5% less stiffness for one made out of solid metal in the same diameter but will have a significantly lower weight, sometimes a reduction as much as 10-20lbs. This has no heavy polar impact since its so low on the chassis but will impact braking/acceleration respectively.

OEM Sway Bar Options

S13: (Abs/lsd package) Front bar 25mm, 21mm in the rear.

S13: (se without Abs/lsd package) Front bar 25mm, 17mm in the rear.

S13: (non se) Front bar 24mm, 15mm in the rear.

All are tubular steel

Aftermarket options (you can kind of guess which may be lightest based on what is known of their construction)

RC Pipe swaybars Front and rear (need translation but they are topquality like Largus sways) http://www.autorefine.co.jp/

Largus - Front bar 31.5mm, 27.5mm in the rear. 3 way adjustable frontonly. Tubular steel construction. Stock type endlinks. Largus includesnew bushings with purchase. ^Will not clear SR20DET oversize oil pans(eg; greddy oil pan, not sure about ARC's). It will also not clear theYashio Factory Tension Rod braces...

Whiteline - Front bar 27mm, 22mm in the rear. Solid steel constructionand 3 way adjustable. Whiteline users their own specific blade typeendlinks

Tanabe - Front bar 30.4mm, 22mm in the rear. Tubular chromolyconstruction. Stock type endlinks

Godspeed - Front bar 30.5mm, 28.29mm in the rear. Tubular chromolyconstruction. Stock type endlinks. Note this bar uses CRUSH bendsinstead of mandrel on higher quality bars.

Progress - Front bar 27mm, 22mm in the rear. 3 way Adjustable front &back. Solid steel construction. Progress supplies a heims type endlinkon these swaybars.

Cusco - Front bar 28mm, 18mm in the rear.

Suspension techniques - Front bar 27mm, 20.64mm in the rear. Solidsteel construction. Stock type endlinks

Intrax - Front bar 29mm, rear bar 22mm. Comes with greaseablebushings/brakets. Stock type endlinks. Adjustable.

Addco - Front bar 28.6mm, rear bar 22.2mm.

- Whiteline swaybar blade type endlinks are not as well designed as the OEM supplied endlinks so that does impact the functionality vs stock links with eurathane bushings or aftermarket replacements. If using whiteline swaybars it is recommended that aftermarket replacements are taken into consideration

-Largus, Splparts.com and PDM Racing both produce a heim joint based replacement endlink solution for both stock and whiteline type bars. This will improve the performance of a swaybar by removing give/squish with bushings.

[Dammitboy]

An EXTREMELY useful & well put together post by glitched.

Bravo sir.

[ITA240SX]

Thank you glitched, that's the kind of info I was looking for. To add to that - the Addco bars are also solid, and if I recall correctly so are the Cusco. Also, I agree 100% on the statement about the Whiteline bar - that's what I'm currently running on the front of my car, and the links that came with the bar are crap. I replaced them with the PDM links, which are not terribly expensive and are much better for the job; especially since the Whiteline bar doesn't line up perfectly with the mounting holes in the control arm (via a special bracket they supply).

I think I'm going to give the Tanabe sway bar a try; I considered going with the Largus just because of the adjustability, but it occurred to me that I've never changed the setting on my Whiteline bar since I've had it, and probably never will on the new one either. I'll also weigh both, and see how much difference there really is.

[5upra]

can't tell you a weight, but we use genesis technologies for our cars. Probably out of your price range but its a true race piece. http://www.genesisparts.com/in...oduct

[blacksrjdm]

Now to try and help out with some actual information:

Stock swaybars are hollow as well as several aftermarket replacements. Testing has found the tube is the strongest shape and while maintaining a proportionate wall thickness a tubular swaybar will provide only 5% less stiffness for one made out of solid metal in the same diameter but will have a significantly lower weight, sometimes a reduction as much as 10-20lbs. This has no heavy polar impact since its so low on the chassis but will impact braking/acceleration respectively.

OEM Sway Bar Options

S13: (Abs/lsd package) Front bar 25mm, 21mm in the rear.

S13: (se without Abs/lsd package) Front bar 25mm, 17mm in the rear.

S13: (non se) Front bar 24mm, 15mm in the rear.

All are tubular steel

Aftermarket options (you can kind of guess which may be lightest based on what is known of their construction)

RC Pipe swaybars Front and rear (need translation but they are topquality like Largus sways) http://www.autorefine.co.jp/

Largus - Front bar 31.5mm, 27.5mm in the rear. 3 way adjustable frontonly. Tubular steel construction. Stock type endlinks. Largus includesnew bushings with purchase. ^Will not clear SR20DET oversize oil pans(eg; greddy oil pan, not sure about ARC's). It will also not clear theYashio Factory Tension Rod braces...

Whiteline - Front bar 27mm, 22mm in the rear. Solid steel constructionand 3 way adjustable. Whiteline users their own specific blade typeendlinks

Tanabe - Front bar 30.4mm, 22mm in the rear. Tubular chromolyconstruction. Stock type endlinks

Godspeed - Front bar 30.5mm, 28.29mm in the rear. Tubular chromolyconstruction. Stock type endlinks. Note this bar uses CRUSH bendsinstead of mandrel on higher quality bars.

Progress - Front bar 27mm, 22mm in the rear. 3 way Adjustable front &back. Solid steel construction. Progress supplies a heims type endlinkon these swaybars.

Cusco - Front bar 28mm, 18mm in the rear.

Suspension techniques - Front bar 27mm, 20.64mm in the rear. Solidsteel construction. Stock type endlinks

Intrax - Front bar 29mm, rear bar 22mm. Comes with greaseablebushings/brakets. Stock type endlinks. Adjustable.

Addco - Front bar 28.6mm, rear bar 22.2mm.

- Whiteline swaybar blade type endlinks are not as well designed as the OEM supplied endlinks so that does impact the functionality vs stock links with eurathane bushings or aftermarket replacements. If using whiteline swaybars it is recommended that aftermarket replacements are taken into consideration

-Largus, Splparts.com and PDM Racing both produce a heim joint based replacement endlink solution for both stock and whiteline type bars. This will improve the performance of a swaybar by removing give/squish with bushings.

Great spoonfeeding. You have alot of extra time I see.
Modified by blacksrjdm at 5:41 AM 5/6/2009

[blacksrjdm]

Now I see why you posted all that. I was wrong........oooooooooooooo.

[ITA240SX]

can't tell you a weight, but we use genesis technologies for our cars. Probably out of your price range but its a true race piece. http://www.genesisparts.com/in...oduct

That's sweet, but yeah, definitely out of my price range. And with the little testing I get to do, I would never be able to take advantage of it's full potential. There was a guy a few years back who had adapted one of the Speedway bars to work on the 240, but I'm sure that took a bit of fabrication, and I have too many other items higher on the to-do list to be getting into that right now.

[916drifter]

LOL, this is kind of how I feel at the moment:

this made me giggle a lot.

But i have tanabe on mine. They were significantly lighter than my stock. Also, they made a great improvement on less body roll. I put energy suspension bushing onn my stock endlinks too. For drifting it was grand but for ITA or just grip in general, wouldn't a bigger sway bar in front and stock (gt-r or hicas bar) be better?

[wackawacka]

An EXTREMELY useful & well put together post by glitched.

Bravo sir.

Not knockin his post or anything... but I think I have seen this list somewhere before when I was looking to purchase some new sway bars....

[glitched]

Not knockin his post or anything... but I think I have seen this list somewhere before when I was looking to purchase some new sway bars....

Yup, dont remember where I got it from, but when i find good information like that I email it to myself and tuck it away in an archive folder. (makes blacksrjdm's jab at me for to much time and spoon feeding even more ridiculous)

[hai1206vn]

No info about weight, but you might find this info useful. There's this guy called Wiisass who tested the Progress sway bars. These are solid, pretty hefty, come with solid heim joint end links (You've probably read all this stuff.) Here's what he posted on the other forum:

"... I tested the stock s13, HICAS, tanabe and progress bars. I liked the progress bars best due to their adjustability and the fact that the adjustability could make them range from stock bar stiffness to tanabe bar stiffness. Actually for the rear, the softest setting on the progress bars is a little stiffer than a HICAS rear sway. For the front, it's about the same as a stock sway on it's softest setting. And then on it's stiffest setting the front bar is a stiffer than a tanabe front and the rear is almost the same as a tanabe rear bar in terms of stiffness."

[hai1206vn]

That list of sway bars comes from here http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/N..._Bars

[IanS]

Most sway bars are mostly very similar to eachother weightwise anyway. A hollow sway bar would be useless. Do you know what a sway bar is supposed to do???? It is to stiffen up the suspension. Why would weight be a factor. And to have the weight of the piece mean more to you than the function of it, is just poor thinking. Tuning the struts and springs isnt gonna change the sway bars, or how they act. This doesnt make very much sense. I think you may be confused.

I........

But........

How..............

Nope, there are no words for this, just

And

[blacksrjdm]

[wackawacka]

That list of sway bars comes from here http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/N..._Bars

That is it. Good call

[IanS]

I do hope you understand that my previous post was aimed at you.

[brizanden]

Great spoonfeeding. You have alot of extra time I see.

Modified by blacksrjdm at 5:41 AM 5/6/2009

god your ignorance is why people run far away from this site when they want some serious help. Glitch gave a good answer thats why people ask question. Contrary to popular belief people dont ask question to be flamed by ignorance or else they would be people like you. Im glad there was some real info in this thread usually you cant get much good racing info in here usually have to go to the autox/road race for real responses. I hate making post just to b****, but god blacksrjdm people like you piss me off.

[disrupt]

Strength in tubing that is in bending gets its strength from yield strength of the material, thickness of material and most importantly the distance that material is from the centerline of the tubing.

The material near the middle pretty much does nothing and the material the farthest away from the center does the most.

Example. A piece of 1" solid bar has the same cross sectional area as hollow tubing with a 1.4" Outside diameter and a 1" Inside diameter but the hollow tubing is going to be stronger in bending.
Modified by disrupt at 2:17 PM 6/26/2009

[ITA240SX]

Just in case anyone cared, I wanted to follow up on this question: I ended up getting one of the Tanabe sway bars, and true to it's claim it was almost half the weight of the Whiteline bar I was using. The Tanabe bar weighs in a 7-1/2 lbs, the Whitline is around 14 lbs. The Tanabe looks to be a nice piece, although I did find that the mounting brackets were made backwards - if you've replaced your sway bars you know there is a front and back, and they put the front in back - but I can make it work, and am looking forward to seeing how it does on the track this weekend.

Thanks again, for the constructive replies.

[DrJuice164]

ITA240sx, I am glad you found what you were looking for. If you have a few minutes, would you mind shooting me over an email, I have a few questions regarding your sway bar knowledge since I am looking for a similar product.

Thanks