Lets build one...
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iliketocrash
- Posts: 1109
- Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 5:58 am
noisy as in squeaky or squeeling or something? no. they sound like any other normal breaks to me. There are usually adds for EBC greenstuff pads in almost every import car magazine. You could just do a search online too. I forget where my friend bought his because it was about a year ago and he recently sold it. He had a '95 eagle talon tsi awd. Really nice car.. he had a big 16g, external w/g and dump, full 3" bushar racing exhaust, hallman mbc, greddy typ-s bov, upper and lower intercooler piping... such a nice car. makes me sad that he got rid of it. Oh well, sorry to go on like that. Its great to hear that the car is coming along so well. Best of luck to you and your son in your future endeavors!
You can get the EBC Greenstuff pads from Tirerack.flyfishz wrote:Thanks for the tip on the greenstuff brake pads. I was actually going to help my son do the brakes this weekend. Where can I get them? Are they noisy at all?
I'm sure a ton of other places have them, but that's where I'd get them from.
Edit: EBC only makes front pads for the 240SX. I suppose you could just stick with OE pads in the rear. Personally, I'm going to get a set of Hawk HPS pads. I've never heard anything bad about either product really.
I work at a paint shop and have since I was 15, I'm 22 now.
Candy is a specific type of paint, and most of the time when you see it, it is a House Of Kolor Kandy paint. House of Kolor is a brand of custom paints. Kandy is a very time consuming and costly paint process. It starts like any other paint job, sanding masking, etc. Then you need to prime the entire car with a quality primer. Then you paint then entire car with a heavy metallic base (It basically looks like colored glitter) called a Shimmerin Base. Now you have to go back over this with the Kandy itself. The Kandy is a colored clear, in your case probably Cobalt Blue, and is very difficult to spray. In our entire county there are 8 or 9 shops, and ours is the only that seems to be able to produce Kandys. With Kandy paint, you have to walk the entire lenght of the car unlike most other paints where you can do a fender, then a door, then the quarter. You must also overlap each pass by 3/4.
If you get closer with the gun in one spot, you will have a dark blotch, just like if you back away you'll have a lighter spot. If you get a run in the Kandy coat, you're done for the day. You have to REPRIME the entire car and start over.
Kandy paint jobs are going for $4500 with Jambs around here. Thats taking everything off, sanding/buffing, lots of clear, etc. The paint materials used alone is close to $1000 and can be more depending on the brands you use.
There are factory 3 stage paints that are sprayed in a similar fashion but are easier to paint and less prone to errors. The difference here is while with Kandy you usually want to go over a Silver basecoat for the best effect, the 3 stages typically go over a silimar colored base, with the reds its a pink or bronzy base, blues are a bluish base. This makes coverage easier. They aren't nearly as deep as a Kandy though. They are however cheaper and I beleive the 2002 NSX has a 3 stage blue available.
Touch up is another issue with Kandy. Kandy sprays completely different in hot and cold weather, with fast or slow reducer, when you're trying to do one panel or trying to do a side. For this reason if you damage the fender, there is a good chance that the entire side of your car will have to be sprayed to make sure it matches again. 3 stage is much easier to repair.
Since your son is 16 and still in school, and this car is a daily driver, I'd suggest against a Kandy. Even a 3 stage is pushing it a bit since they do cost a bit to repair should he get the normal HS parking lot dings and scrapes. I'd suggest finding a nice pearl, metallic, or pearl-metallic color on a factory vehicle that you like. It will still look great, will cost less, will be easier to repair should you have to, and more shops are able to spray them.
Just my .02 cents but feel free to email me if you have any questions.
Candy is a specific type of paint, and most of the time when you see it, it is a House Of Kolor Kandy paint. House of Kolor is a brand of custom paints. Kandy is a very time consuming and costly paint process. It starts like any other paint job, sanding masking, etc. Then you need to prime the entire car with a quality primer. Then you paint then entire car with a heavy metallic base (It basically looks like colored glitter) called a Shimmerin Base. Now you have to go back over this with the Kandy itself. The Kandy is a colored clear, in your case probably Cobalt Blue, and is very difficult to spray. In our entire county there are 8 or 9 shops, and ours is the only that seems to be able to produce Kandys. With Kandy paint, you have to walk the entire lenght of the car unlike most other paints where you can do a fender, then a door, then the quarter. You must also overlap each pass by 3/4.
If you get closer with the gun in one spot, you will have a dark blotch, just like if you back away you'll have a lighter spot. If you get a run in the Kandy coat, you're done for the day. You have to REPRIME the entire car and start over.
Kandy paint jobs are going for $4500 with Jambs around here. Thats taking everything off, sanding/buffing, lots of clear, etc. The paint materials used alone is close to $1000 and can be more depending on the brands you use.
There are factory 3 stage paints that are sprayed in a similar fashion but are easier to paint and less prone to errors. The difference here is while with Kandy you usually want to go over a Silver basecoat for the best effect, the 3 stages typically go over a silimar colored base, with the reds its a pink or bronzy base, blues are a bluish base. This makes coverage easier. They aren't nearly as deep as a Kandy though. They are however cheaper and I beleive the 2002 NSX has a 3 stage blue available.
Touch up is another issue with Kandy. Kandy sprays completely different in hot and cold weather, with fast or slow reducer, when you're trying to do one panel or trying to do a side. For this reason if you damage the fender, there is a good chance that the entire side of your car will have to be sprayed to make sure it matches again. 3 stage is much easier to repair.
Since your son is 16 and still in school, and this car is a daily driver, I'd suggest against a Kandy. Even a 3 stage is pushing it a bit since they do cost a bit to repair should he get the normal HS parking lot dings and scrapes. I'd suggest finding a nice pearl, metallic, or pearl-metallic color on a factory vehicle that you like. It will still look great, will cost less, will be easier to repair should you have to, and more shops are able to spray them.
Just my .02 cents but feel free to email me if you have any questions.
Great info No Kandy. But we do want a good quality color change I am having no luck finding a shop that wants anything but collision work.
Do you think it is better to paint in the sumer or winter? Does it matter? How much should a good color change cost? What can I do to keep the cost down and spend some time working with my son? Sanding? Or do we risk just making more work for some one else
Do you think it is better to paint in the sumer or winter? Does it matter? How much should a good color change cost? What can I do to keep the cost down and spend some time working with my son? Sanding? Or do we risk just making more work for some one else
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I am Technoman
- Posts: 979
- Joined: Fri Nov 22, 2002 6:49 am
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I suggest painting when it is warmer, there is less chance of sagging and the paint will cure to full hardness sooner.
A good color change should run between $2000 and $3000 depending on the color, wheter its a stock color or something you are adding some pearl to etc. Insurance companies around here feel that just painting the outside of a car that got keyed is worth $2600 to paint it the same color with no jambs if that helps you at all. Bigger shops are usually geared towards collision and like to stay that way because it pays big for easier work. Look for smaller shops that talk to you like a human and not just a source of money. Look for custom cars in the area and ask where the work was done at and inspect it very close. Ask about there experience, and any mishaps or messups that might have happened and if the shop backed up their work. Remember, everyone can messup, but its how/if they correct it thats really important.
How much body work is there, or is the car 100% straight? If there is no body work, you can save money by removing as much stuff from the outside of the car as you can before you bring it to them. These are things like the window moldings, tail lights, side markers, door panels, trim moldings close to the jambs, etc. Talk to the shop before you sand the car, and ask what grit paper they prefer to prime/paint over. Some shops are okay with 320 grit while others want it water sanded with 600 or 1000 grit.
Water sanding requires no tools, just a bit of patients and possibly some blood. When you water sand you use a wet/dry paper and you wet it and the panel you are sanding really well, then sand using a back and forth or up and down motion. Avoid sanding like you wax. Keep your fingers together, basically turn your hand into a sanding block. Try to keep the paper from sliding on your hand too much or you'll end up slowly sanding through your skin and bleeding all over the car. Should this happen get the blood off ASAP as it can cause staining and problems with the paint.
A good color change should run between $2000 and $3000 depending on the color, wheter its a stock color or something you are adding some pearl to etc. Insurance companies around here feel that just painting the outside of a car that got keyed is worth $2600 to paint it the same color with no jambs if that helps you at all. Bigger shops are usually geared towards collision and like to stay that way because it pays big for easier work. Look for smaller shops that talk to you like a human and not just a source of money. Look for custom cars in the area and ask where the work was done at and inspect it very close. Ask about there experience, and any mishaps or messups that might have happened and if the shop backed up their work. Remember, everyone can messup, but its how/if they correct it thats really important.
How much body work is there, or is the car 100% straight? If there is no body work, you can save money by removing as much stuff from the outside of the car as you can before you bring it to them. These are things like the window moldings, tail lights, side markers, door panels, trim moldings close to the jambs, etc. Talk to the shop before you sand the car, and ask what grit paper they prefer to prime/paint over. Some shops are okay with 320 grit while others want it water sanded with 600 or 1000 grit.
Water sanding requires no tools, just a bit of patients and possibly some blood. When you water sand you use a wet/dry paper and you wet it and the panel you are sanding really well, then sand using a back and forth or up and down motion. Avoid sanding like you wax. Keep your fingers together, basically turn your hand into a sanding block. Try to keep the paper from sliding on your hand too much or you'll end up slowly sanding through your skin and bleeding all over the car. Should this happen get the blood off ASAP as it can cause staining and problems with the paint.
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iliketocrash
- Posts: 1109
- Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 5:58 am
I think you can find a really good color to paint your car and not have to do anything particularly special like you would with the Kandy and such. Like BaliLover said, there are a lot of good pearl, and metallic pearl colors out there, and you could probably even mix your own if you feel like it. I have quite a few friends who are into doing their own body work and one friend in particular does a really great job. I never realized the difference between a paint job and a great paint job until i saw the finished product. His car has a much better finish then most factory cars i've seen. If you go to your local dealership and look at some subarus, nissans, mitsus, etc you can kind of see that there is somewhat of a "texture" to the paint job. This is called the "orange" peel look. Because its kinda of bumpy but its still smooth. I guess this is because they're midrange mass produced imports and i'm guessing you'd never see it on a BMW or a Porshe. I think painting the car with your son would be a lot of fun, good learning experience, and relatively cheap compared to what most shops would charge you for a really good paint job.
Oh, and a sidenote about the brake pads... so what if they're only for the front? How often do the rear wheels on a car get coated in break dust? Almost never, as long as you wash your car at least once a month. Breaking power distribution is something like 90% front %30 rear. It might actually be more up front, i'm not completely sure.
Oh, and a sidenote about the brake pads... so what if they're only for the front? How often do the rear wheels on a car get coated in break dust? Almost never, as long as you wash your car at least once a month. Breaking power distribution is something like 90% front %30 rear. It might actually be more up front, i'm not completely sure.
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iliketocrash
- Posts: 1109
- Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 5:58 am
BaliLover wrote:...Try to keep the paper from sliding on your hand too much or you'll end up slowly sanding through your skin and bleeding all over the car. Should this happen get the blood off ASAP as it can cause staining and problems with the paint.
...and no mention of taking care of the injury itself. Spoken like a true car fanatic. Make sure the car is alright first and then attend to yourself only if its a life and death situation. heh. Can i add that quote to my sig, BaliLover?:D
Orange peel is presant in every factory car I've seen. Fords are really bad about it. Mercedes and BMW still have peel, but its less than most domestics.
Most large shops don't wetsand and buff their cars to remove peel. They spray it and cure it and how it lays down is how it stays. You should ask the shop in advance if they sand and buff their cars complely, or at all. Also ask how flat the sand it before buffing because just a light scuff will not make the paint job really smooth and flat like a showcar.
We typically give a quick scuff with 600 grit just to knock down any little nibs or specks of dust, then we sand it totally smooth with 1000 then go over it again with 1200 before buffing. It gives a hell of a shine, but it takes alot of work to get it there.
This is why I suggest looking at local custom vehicles VERY carefully. Did the shop remove the moldings, the door handles, the locks, lights, etc or did they just mask them off. Is there paint on the edges of the moldings? Are the doorjambs clearcoated and glossy or are they kind of dull? How long did the job take? Up to a month is possible depending on the shops work load from start to finish.
If you try to paint it yourself, keep in mind that painting a fender or bumper is NOTHING like painting a car. No one is going to get a really great metallic paint job on their first shot out. Pastel colors are easiest to paint because there is no metallic or pearl to blotch. Also, basecoat/clearcoat is the way to go if you want any kind of lasting shine without slaving over the car all the time. Quality clear coat is important but you don't need $200 a gallon clear for any reason. Basecoat should not be shiney, it doesn't need to be. It should have a smooth dull sheen, evenly over the car before you clear coat it. Clearcoat is where the shine comes from.
Most large shops don't wetsand and buff their cars to remove peel. They spray it and cure it and how it lays down is how it stays. You should ask the shop in advance if they sand and buff their cars complely, or at all. Also ask how flat the sand it before buffing because just a light scuff will not make the paint job really smooth and flat like a showcar.
We typically give a quick scuff with 600 grit just to knock down any little nibs or specks of dust, then we sand it totally smooth with 1000 then go over it again with 1200 before buffing. It gives a hell of a shine, but it takes alot of work to get it there.
This is why I suggest looking at local custom vehicles VERY carefully. Did the shop remove the moldings, the door handles, the locks, lights, etc or did they just mask them off. Is there paint on the edges of the moldings? Are the doorjambs clearcoated and glossy or are they kind of dull? How long did the job take? Up to a month is possible depending on the shops work load from start to finish.
If you try to paint it yourself, keep in mind that painting a fender or bumper is NOTHING like painting a car. No one is going to get a really great metallic paint job on their first shot out. Pastel colors are easiest to paint because there is no metallic or pearl to blotch. Also, basecoat/clearcoat is the way to go if you want any kind of lasting shine without slaving over the car all the time. Quality clear coat is important but you don't need $200 a gallon clear for any reason. Basecoat should not be shiney, it doesn't need to be. It should have a smooth dull sheen, evenly over the car before you clear coat it. Clearcoat is where the shine comes from.
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iliketocrash
- Posts: 1109
- Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 5:58 am
Its rather messy. My friend's dad recently set him up a place to paint out in their barn. Some fans for ventilation... quite a few tarps... some may say its "ghetto" rigged but if you could see the paint job you would never have guessed. He takes his car to car shows and even brings a binder with photos of him doing all the work and people still don't believe him. He put lcd screens into the back of the headrests of the car and all sorts of show crap. The car is a 2nd gen Mitsu Eclipse GS-T which "supposedlly" runs 12s, according to the previous owner. My friend is taking it to the track on friday night now that he's got it all painted and put together. So i think i'm gonna go and watch and maybe see what my stock 240 can do in the 1/4 before i drop my ca18det in. 
Sure, quote away.
Painting a car isn't the hardest thing in the world, but it is next to impossible to have a show quality finish on your first try. It is also messy as overspray will get over everything in the area. Your paint booth/garage needs to be pretty dust free, wet the floor down to help with keeping the dust down.
You will need a good compressor that can maintian at least 75lbs for extended periods of time. Air pressure affects spray patterns and if you don't have enough pressure you will have a bad job. You will of course need a water seperater to keep water out of your airline, you'll need the gun of course. A $150 Gravity feed gun can be used and obtain a good job. HVLP guns cost more and are much slower to paint with, sometimes doubling the paint times, but are more environmentally friendly. On top of this, you will need the paint which can be up to $500 with all the reducers, catalysts and clears.
If you mess up, you've just wasted all that money and now you have to pay someone to not only paint your car again, but to possibly correct your errors. It would be a great father-son project, but you take it on at a risk of wasting quite a bit of money to end up disappointed. Of course you could always try to take a class at a local community college or tech school to learn.
Oh, I forgot. You'll also need a high speed rotary buffer (not orbital) that can spin at 1200-1800 RPM, and a good compund. 3M makes the best that I've found for a reasonable price, around $40 a gallon. Then you'll need polish and wax. Buffing a car with a high speed buffer is a learned skill and almost an art. The pad should spin OFF of body lines and not into them, you don't want to get the bulk of the pad over an edge or you will smoke the paint right off.
When people complain about the price of paint/body work, they really have no idea how much time/effort/ and knowlege it takes to do it right.
Painting a car isn't the hardest thing in the world, but it is next to impossible to have a show quality finish on your first try. It is also messy as overspray will get over everything in the area. Your paint booth/garage needs to be pretty dust free, wet the floor down to help with keeping the dust down.
You will need a good compressor that can maintian at least 75lbs for extended periods of time. Air pressure affects spray patterns and if you don't have enough pressure you will have a bad job. You will of course need a water seperater to keep water out of your airline, you'll need the gun of course. A $150 Gravity feed gun can be used and obtain a good job. HVLP guns cost more and are much slower to paint with, sometimes doubling the paint times, but are more environmentally friendly. On top of this, you will need the paint which can be up to $500 with all the reducers, catalysts and clears.
If you mess up, you've just wasted all that money and now you have to pay someone to not only paint your car again, but to possibly correct your errors. It would be a great father-son project, but you take it on at a risk of wasting quite a bit of money to end up disappointed. Of course you could always try to take a class at a local community college or tech school to learn.
Oh, I forgot. You'll also need a high speed rotary buffer (not orbital) that can spin at 1200-1800 RPM, and a good compund. 3M makes the best that I've found for a reasonable price, around $40 a gallon. Then you'll need polish and wax. Buffing a car with a high speed buffer is a learned skill and almost an art. The pad should spin OFF of body lines and not into them, you don't want to get the bulk of the pad over an edge or you will smoke the paint right off.
When people complain about the price of paint/body work, they really have no idea how much time/effort/ and knowlege it takes to do it right.
If painted in the winter most shops will use a fast acting catalyst/reducer. This cures the paint faster when you are painting but the paint doesn't flow as well. You can still get a great job, but its usually easier and nicer in the summer. Talk to your shop, they can paint in any weather as long as they know what they are doing.
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iliketocrash
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- Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 5:58 am
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iliketocrash
- Posts: 1109
- Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 5:58 am
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iliketocrash
- Posts: 1109
- Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 5:58 am
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lessthanjakejohn
- Posts: 4105
- Joined: Fri Oct 25, 2002 6:39 am
Heheh i like this thread. I'm a young guy myself, first things i bought on my car are Alpine MP3 Deck and speakers. Well, that and a tire/wheel combo. After much personal debate, i settled on a 16" Konig Holes wheel, staying with 4 lug, and some 225/50 ultra high perf all season tires. The setup gives me way too much grip. Rain, really fast driving, stuff that normally slides a car, dont really let me slide. I gotta really push the car to drift it even a little. This tire/wheel setup cost me maybe 1100, and Discount Tire will hook you up. The beauty of it is, i can hit stuff. I can fly over potholes w/o even a nick on the rims. I haven't so much as touched a curb with my 240, so i dont know how much curbing they can withstand. Please dont bust 2k on some sick rims that he might (will) end up damaging. Curbing a 240sx is just a few slick road conditions and a driver who hasnt lost controll of his rear end a few times yet to do it. I used to drive an S10 pickup, with all terrain tires and TONS of torque. The back end was all over the place all the time, it taught me how to keep that stuff under control.
He's gonna crash, he's gonna crash, he's gonna crash. It doesnt matter how much you train him and teach him and all that. Its going to happen, its gonna be a minor thing, probably curb related, and it will teach him a bigtime lesson. No sense in learning on Volk rims. I specifically bought myself nothing bigger than a 16" till i mastered my 240sx. That, and im really mean to tires, 16s are cheaper. 16 doesnt look small, and it doesnt look big, it fits the S13. mount some chunky rubber and it looks plenty aggressive, and is still very practical.
I like your idea of graduated performance. First year of no tickets=engine swap. Second year=turbo and fuel upgrade. Third year=full build. After all, its not how fast you drive, its how you drive fast. I haul butt everywhere i go but i've never gotten a ticket in my 4 years on the road. I know when to burn and i know when to slow it down.
Maybe get your son a Gas card, encourage him to drive a lot. Driving a lot is a good thing, he will become the wheelman in no time. I'm sure you want your son to become the wheelman right? That'd be the main reason i'd want kids!
Your son better just about worship the ground you walk on, cause you are an awesome dad.
He's gonna crash, he's gonna crash, he's gonna crash. It doesnt matter how much you train him and teach him and all that. Its going to happen, its gonna be a minor thing, probably curb related, and it will teach him a bigtime lesson. No sense in learning on Volk rims. I specifically bought myself nothing bigger than a 16" till i mastered my 240sx. That, and im really mean to tires, 16s are cheaper. 16 doesnt look small, and it doesnt look big, it fits the S13. mount some chunky rubber and it looks plenty aggressive, and is still very practical.
I like your idea of graduated performance. First year of no tickets=engine swap. Second year=turbo and fuel upgrade. Third year=full build. After all, its not how fast you drive, its how you drive fast. I haul butt everywhere i go but i've never gotten a ticket in my 4 years on the road. I know when to burn and i know when to slow it down.
Maybe get your son a Gas card, encourage him to drive a lot. Driving a lot is a good thing, he will become the wheelman in no time. I'm sure you want your son to become the wheelman right? That'd be the main reason i'd want kids!
Your son better just about worship the ground you walk on, cause you are an awesome dad.
The Volk AV 3 wheels have been aquired along with low profile Yokahamas. I actually got them used right here on this website in the classifieds. They look brand spanking new and I paid $750 for both tires and rims! They are 17" Wheels and they look really good.
We are doing the brakes this weekend and next weekend if all the parts arrive the car will get Whiteline bushings and the Suspension kit
I hope he doen't crash... but I know there is a pretty good chance that will happen. But so far... he seems to be doing well
Gas Card? I don't think so...But I am sure he appreciates your suggestion---- you can buy a lot of stuff besides gas with a gas card...
Most of all we are fun working on car... I suppose we will have fun fixing it when he bangs it up too
Worship the ground I walk on... Nah... but by being involved in the stuff he likes to do gives us time to talk about a lot of stuff that I probablly would never hear about otherwise.
Good luck with your car too!
We are doing the brakes this weekend and next weekend if all the parts arrive the car will get Whiteline bushings and the Suspension kit
I hope he doen't crash... but I know there is a pretty good chance that will happen. But so far... he seems to be doing well
Gas Card? I don't think so...But I am sure he appreciates your suggestion---- you can buy a lot of stuff besides gas with a gas card...
Most of all we are fun working on car... I suppose we will have fun fixing it when he bangs it up too
Worship the ground I walk on... Nah... but by being involved in the stuff he likes to do gives us time to talk about a lot of stuff that I probablly would never hear about otherwise.
Good luck with your car too!
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iliketocrash
- Posts: 1109
- Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 5:58 am
Haven't talked to you guys in a while... the project was coming along well until it "took a bad turn..."
Car got wrecked... see the general forum post "his fate is in your hands"
The car has been named "Lazrus" 240sx resurected... back on the road end of January
Lots of stuff being done to get the car back on track
Car got wrecked... see the general forum post "his fate is in your hands"
The car has been named "Lazrus" 240sx resurected... back on the road end of January
Lots of stuff being done to get the car back on track