laws on engine swapping (not the sr or rb)

Post by **nismo2887** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

would there be any legal issues with swapping a low mileage 98 ka into an s13?

Post by **leftovercrizack** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

Ka's are USDM...

Post by **Onizuka** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

its perfectly legal as long as it still has all of the emmision control devices im pretty sure.

Post by **lessthanjakejohn** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

Yes, j-spec is right...

Post by **D1SR240** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

I don't see why it wouldn't be

Post by **ride4lame** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

As long as all emmission equipment is still used, and as long as the new motor is newer then the car(body) you are good. I would make sure to have proper documentation for the purchase of the new motor though.

Post by **deftdrummer** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

yeah ride's right, you can put a newer engine in an older car, but not an older engine in a newer car

Post by **r34 gtr** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

what about an engine the same age as the car? not that my ca will ever be legal though. just wondering. id assume thats ok.

- tim

Post by **lessthanjakejohn** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

yes its ok

Post by **D1SR240** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

what if the engine is older but has less miles?

Post by **Onizuka** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

doesnt matter, if its older *technically* its not legal, but in all reality all KA24DE's were created equal

Post by **w1ngzer0** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

i thought that applied in california only the newer then the car crap.

So the entire USA you can't have a older engine in a newer car?

RB from R32,33,34 are legal in the usa cause motorex has legalized thoughs cars. But you still need to figure out how to do the smoggy stuff on the motor. Not sure if the older RB's are legal though.

well... on the SR thing im kinda confused... cause the sentra or 200sx whatever car it is has a SR20DE the N/A motor. Couldn't you get away with saying yah i have a SR20

??? or does the smog computer read it funny?

KA24 is goodie sauce

Post by **nismo2887** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

i dont think they're illegal because of emissions. i believe they are not legal by the DOT for specific chassis's. example the rb is legal in a legalized skyline only. the sr hasnt been legalized for use in any chassis yet, and i dont believe it will. that's all for street use. anything goes offroad. someone correct me if im wrong.

Post by **Hijacker** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

the ECUs are programmed differently for the RWD SR and transverse SR. J spec ECU's run the car differently to gain an extra few horsepower, but that changes the level of emmisions the car puts out. as for the chassis being legal, i'm not sure. USDM hybrids are ok such as dropping a checvy big block in a ford, but that's because the engine itself is EPA and SAE certified

Post by **w1ngzer0** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

then why couldn't you drop a RB26 into a 240sx and be legal? perfectly legal motorex meets usa standards....

Post by **Onizuka** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

as long as the motor fills these requirements it is legal for a swap:

1) Its as old or newer than the car its going into2) Its DOT approved3) Its made by the same auto manufacturer

so RB swaps are perfectly legal for the 240sx according to those standards. Mckinney motorsports advertised in SCC as selling legal RB swaps so it had to be true or mckinney could get into LOTS of trouble for false advertising.

YouTube · Post by **EZcheese15** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

If a car is less than 25 yrs old, then you can only legally swap in an engine from a same chassis, that is as new or newer than the vehicle you are puting it into. Also, all emissions equipment must remain in tack.

So RB's in anything but a Skyline are illegal in the U.S. SR20DET's are illegal in the U.S. Chevy 350's are illegal in Ford Mustangs if the Mustang is newer than a 1978 year model.

Puting a brand new Powerstroke 7.3 L V-8 in a 2000 Ford F150 *IS* legal. Because the F150 and F350 use "similar" chassis and the 7.3 L is available in the 2003 F350.

Post by **Sliding_S14** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

the motor has to be a option for the chassis, so just throwing any motor in wont work. You can go to smog refree's and hope you pass but good luck on that. the best way ive heard is make a friend out of your smog shop and a lil xtra $green dosent hurt, and your best bet is to do it up in nor cal if your in cali, smog emmissions are not as strict as they are in so cal.

YouTube · Post by **EZcheese15** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

Direct quote from the EPA website...

Quote »A "certified configuration" is an engine or engine chassis design which has been "certified" (approved)by EPA prior to the production of vehicles with that design. Generally, the manufacturer submits anapplication for certification of the designs of each engine or vehicle it proposes to manufacture prior toproduction. The application includes design requirements for all emission related parts, enginecalibrations, and other design parameters for each different type of engine (in heavy-duty vehicles), orengine chassis combination (in light-duty vehicles). EPA then "certifies" each acceptable design for use,in vehicles of the upcoming model year.For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty eng~ne into a different light-duty vehicle by anyperson would be considered tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to allemission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified configuration ofthe same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis, or if there is a reasonable basis for knowing thatemissions are not adversely affected as described in Memo 1A. The appropriate source for technicalinformation regarding the certified configuration of a vehicle of a particular model year is the vehiclemanufacturer.[/quote]This can be found at http://www.epa.gov/compliance/...h.pdf

The RB motor in *any* 240SX is NOT a "certified configuration."

YouTube · Post by **EZcheese15** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

Oh yeah, and one more quote from the same page:

Quote »Another situation recently brought to EPA's attention involves the offering for sale of used foreign-builtengines. These engines are often not covered by a certified configuration for any vehicle sold in thiscountry. In such a case, there is no way to install such an engine legally. EPA has recently broughtenforcement actions against certain parties who have violated the tampering prohibition by performingillegal engine switches.[/quote]

Post by **w1ngzer0** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

all that says is chasis acceptance....and what parts have to be there..... But ..... if someone knew what motorex does to the skylines couldn't you make it legal....

Post by **Onizuka** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

dang, the EPA is after me....

YouTube · Post by **EZcheese15** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

w1ngzer0 wrote:all that says is chasis acceptance....and what parts have to be there..... But ..... if someone knew what motorex does to the skylines couldn't you make it legal....

"Certified configuration" is the combination of the engine and chassis. Motorex does not legalize RB powered S13 and S14's, therefore Motorex has nothing to do with making an RB or an SR legal in a 240SX.

Post by **w1ngzer0** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

Motorex does not legalize RB powered S13 and S14's.

Then wouldn't that apply to hondas and acuras as well? Like for an example of a few popular swaps.

H22 into a 93 civic...... or a K20a2 into a civic si.....

K20a2 rsx type s = acuracivic si= honda

Different companys.. but yet they get away with it and honda puts the security code when they swap it to

so whats the difference... not trying to flame just trying to understand.

Post by **Onizuka** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

SCC has done a couple of inter-chassi swaps they claim to be legal. They even got one (that i know of) smog certified (it was some USDM honda motor into a 90? civic hatch)

YouTube · Post by **EZcheese15** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

Those swaps are not legal either, unless a company has gone to the extent to get them certified, which I highly doubt.

It *is* possible to certify any configuration, however, it takes an insane amount of paperwork. Please read the *.pdf file I have been quoting from for more information on what is involved to certify an engine configuration. It is usually too involved for any aftermarket company to want to deal with, so usually only manufacturers actually fill the paperwork out. (Ex. Nissan Motor Corp).

YouTube · Post by **EZcheese15** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

Oh yeah, btw, wingzero, I notice you said Honda and Acura are different companies. They aren't. They are both owned by American Honda Motor Corporation Inc.

Post by **Sliding_S14** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

not sure but like it says the manufacture has to havedesign requirements. sounds like nissan might have been lasy or never thought of the rb/sr motors coming to the states.honda might have been a little more prepared.

Post by **prigo** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

We have the SR, it just wasnt in the 240. Ergo, its not allowed to be in the 240, cuz thats not how it was planned out.

YouTube · Post by **EZcheese15** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 2:12 pm

I agree...

I think Honda promotes the aftermarket of their vehicles much more so than Nissan currently does. They may have actually certified those swaps....and here's why...

If someone wants to put a K20 in a Civic SI, then where do they get it? They get it from a USDM RSX. Meaning, that K20 engine, however it was purchased, originally was bought from America Honda Motor Corp. That means they got money for it at some point.

If someone wants to put an SR20DET in a 240SX, then where do they get it? Imported from Japan. Which means, Nissan Motor Corp, North America, never received any type of money for this engine.

From a marketing standpoint, why on Earth would Nissan certify such swap? And, why would Honda *not* certify such swap? Honda makes money if they make the swap legal. Nissan *looses* money if they make it legal.

laws on engine swapping (not the sr or rb)

laws on engine swapping (not the sr or rb)

Nissan Forums

Infiniti Forums

Datsun Forums

Technical Forums

Classifieds / Marketplace

Nissan Motorsports

General Forums