Just wonderin if there's any interest in this...I am in the process of building a supercharger kit for my '91 240SXs, which I presume would work for the S14s as well. I'm getting the blowers from Autorotor which are twin-screw units. If you want to know more about these visit: http://www.kennebell.net/techi...l.htm
The goal is to have it ready by February and I would like to model it after the KB Miata systems.
Stage 1 will look like this:
-6psi, non-intercooled-New 'straight shot' intake mani, maintaining emissions equipment.-FMU or ECU retune-new crank pulley-1.16L Twin Screw supercharger with self-contained lubrication (minimal maintenance).
The focus of this kit will be:-Make 210-225 whp @ 6000 rpm and 220 lbs. ft. torque from 2500 rpm-Full boost by 2500rpm-Price level about $3000 USD-Maintaining stock reliability-Very easy, bolt-on installation with color manual for the DIY'er-Marry the best aspects of turbos with the best aspects of superchargers
If there is demand, the Stage 2 would be 9 psi Laminova intercooled and Stage 3 12 psi as this compressor maxes out RPM at 12psi. Higher boost >12psi can be had with a larger compressor.
Would you buy one? I appreciate your thoughts and inquiries.
-NateUnder what circumstances would you buy a blower system?
KA24DE-Z Anyone?
-
MainEvent212
- Posts: 4182
- Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2003 1:21 pm
- Car: 95 Nissan 240SX SE w/ SR20DET+goodies
-
Touchdown038
- Posts: 1928
- Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 1:55 pm
- Car: Computers, cars, sports
- Contact:
Re: KA24DE-Z Anyone?
FYI, the Nissan engine code for a supercharged engine is not a Z -- that's a Toyota designation (as in 4AG-ZE). Nissan uses an R (i.e. the supercharged Frontier engine is a VG33ER).
Asad
Asad
blower
hay natedogg i did this back in 1989 with my hardbody truck with a nape-z motor.power out put was good. around 260hp at the fly.(134hp stock) down side was i keep blowing out pistons in the dam thing do to high temp in the manafold. (no intercooler) a vortek blower would work better do to the fact that a intercooler can be installed into the air path way.but if you can get it to work go for it. back in the day i should have went with nos. would have been a lot less money:ylsuper
-
iwantanr34
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 4:30 am
- Car: dori
so i guess im not the only one tryin this, eh? except i tried doing mine with an eaton m90 from a 1993 ford thunderbird supercoupe... if you ask me, a turbo will be much more cost efficient, and much easier. now before we start a SC vs. Turbo debate, understand ive been trying to make this work for a while now, and i just think im going to cut my losses and start over.
any custom SC kit requires a lot of r&d, from the sizing of the pulleys (youve got to have a perfect combination between sc pulley, a tensioner youre going to have to custom build, and whatever you plan on running this off of if you want to have a specific amount of boost, not to mention finding the perfect size 8-rib belt...which is almost impossible)down to where/how to mount it (intake manifold will have to be custom unless you run hotside, which i advise against because roots/whipple type chargers are very ineffecient under high temperature) and custom mounting brackets. believe me, i was more than optimistic when i got the SC in the mail and did a few mock-ups, until i realized all the work im going to have to do. im thinking about trying again with a centrifugal blower or a smaller roots-type, but the entire project is still going to be a huge problem to solve.
all in all, i thought it was going to be a great idea. smooth powerband, gobs of torque, and predictable power on demand, perfect for drift. but comparing costs and benefits, effort and results, the turbo is just a better way to get the job done. i was only going to build the car to compete in autox, not show or anything like that, so the idea of getting a SC because no one else has it doesnt mean anything to me. i can get the same numbers cheaper and easier with a turbo KA.
and twin charging is gay. totally not necessary.
any custom SC kit requires a lot of r&d, from the sizing of the pulleys (youve got to have a perfect combination between sc pulley, a tensioner youre going to have to custom build, and whatever you plan on running this off of if you want to have a specific amount of boost, not to mention finding the perfect size 8-rib belt...which is almost impossible)down to where/how to mount it (intake manifold will have to be custom unless you run hotside, which i advise against because roots/whipple type chargers are very ineffecient under high temperature) and custom mounting brackets. believe me, i was more than optimistic when i got the SC in the mail and did a few mock-ups, until i realized all the work im going to have to do. im thinking about trying again with a centrifugal blower or a smaller roots-type, but the entire project is still going to be a huge problem to solve.
all in all, i thought it was going to be a great idea. smooth powerband, gobs of torque, and predictable power on demand, perfect for drift. but comparing costs and benefits, effort and results, the turbo is just a better way to get the job done. i was only going to build the car to compete in autox, not show or anything like that, so the idea of getting a SC because no one else has it doesnt mean anything to me. i can get the same numbers cheaper and easier with a turbo KA.
and twin charging is gay. totally not necessary.
-
iwantanr34
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 4:30 am
- Car: dori
ahhsk wrote:Question, how are they regulating max PSI? is there a "wastegate" like actuator that vents off pressure? where does it get recirculated?
ThanksOscar
im not sure how this dood plans to do it, but in the setup i was making i was going to use a pop-off valve, which is like a standard turbo blow-off, but instead of being triggered just by a vacuum line, it opens at a specific psi to vent so you dont accidentally put 20 lbs into your intake manifold.
oh and im looking at that kenne bell page, and they are kind of warping the facts a bit to try and sell the twin screw..Twin Screw Vs. Roots
it says here that on same size pulleys, the twin screw makes more horsepower. but look at the rest of the numbers... because its a completely different design, it makes more boost with a smaller pulley, and with more boost of course it makes more horsepower. big deal, change the pulley on the roots, and get the same numbers.
anyway, im not saying its not a good product, because a smaller pulley means less parasitic power loss down low. however, you can find a good roots blower used for way under $500 if you want to try and make a custom SC kit. i paid $250 for the m90... again, compare cost vs. benefit.
another reason im putting a turbo on the KA over the supercharger... you cant change boost on the fly. if you want more/less boost with a supercharger setup, you have to completely change the pulleys, which means adjusting the custom tensioner you hopefully built, or going through the process of finding another belt that fits perfectly. with a turbo, you can sit easy in the driver seat and change it electronically, or get a home depot boost controller and just turn a knob under the hood.
iwantanr34 wrote:im not sure how this dood plans to do it, but in the setup i was making i was going to use a pop-off valve, which is like a standard turbo blow-off, but instead of being triggered just by a vacuum line, it opens at a specific psi to vent so you dont accidentally put 20 lbs into your intake manifold.
Most supercharger setups don't use anything to regulate the boost except the pulley size. If you think about it, there's no WAY a supercharger can overboost -- because in order to get more boost, you need to spin it faster...and there's no "failure mode" for a supercharger that would cause that. Only way to do it would be to pick the wrong-sized pulley.
edit: oh, I guess I thought of one way -- if you downshift into the wrong gear and spin the engine faster than redline, you'll get more boost (definitely the case with a centrifugal supercharger, and most likely true with a positive-displacement blower too).
Asad
Asad: Thanks for the info on the supercharged engine code. I like the sound and look of a KA24DE-R a lot more!
There are ways of adjusting the boost on a positive-displacement design. Check out http://www.theoldone.com and http://www.flyinmiata.com/projects/ubercharger.asp for examples.
However, I don't think that will be included for the quoted price. I have weighed the options for boost control and feel that it if you don't have adjustability, you probably won't miss it. If you do have it, you are more likely to blow the motor due to insufficient ECU calibration and/or engine management, which looks bad on everyone's resume. Besides, it's adjustable with your foot hehe..
iwantanr34: Thanks for sharing your experience. I understand this is not an easy task but I have all the technology and connections required to make just about anything (at a cost obviously).
About the misrepresentation on the KB site, I have to agree with you. The page I was hoping you'd find is this: http://www.kennebell.net/techi...g.pdfYou might also want to check out the Lightning dyno runs. Pretty impressive.
I too looked around eBay and remanufacturers of Roots blowers but I don't feel that it is appropriate to resell a used product that I cannot personally guarantee. I also think that for efficiency and space' sake for the drive pulley (smaller), you should run a m62 instead of the m90 for less than 15psi. Bottom line is, from my research, why not start with the best technology available? Cost is a big factor but I'm not out to screw anyone (pardon the pun). I love the 240sx and feel that I can make a contribution to the KA faithful by offering these kits at reasonable rates.
Hurrikane: Wow that's great! Can you share more about your setup? I'm very interested. What compression ratio? What psi? Did you run an intercooler? etc...
About the intercooler: It can and will be available in the intake manifold for the higher PSI ranges. The stages and accompanying intercooler are going to be based on the KB Miata unit. Sorry I didn't intitially make that clear. ie. 9psi+ with intercooler.
If you're curious you can check out http://www.laminova.com for more info. These are the same parent company that make the Autorotor, which has acquired it's main competition,Lysholm, within the last couple weeks.
Thanks for you thoughts, keep 'em comin.
-Nate
There are ways of adjusting the boost on a positive-displacement design. Check out http://www.theoldone.com and http://www.flyinmiata.com/projects/ubercharger.asp for examples.
However, I don't think that will be included for the quoted price. I have weighed the options for boost control and feel that it if you don't have adjustability, you probably won't miss it. If you do have it, you are more likely to blow the motor due to insufficient ECU calibration and/or engine management, which looks bad on everyone's resume. Besides, it's adjustable with your foot hehe..
iwantanr34: Thanks for sharing your experience. I understand this is not an easy task but I have all the technology and connections required to make just about anything (at a cost obviously).
About the misrepresentation on the KB site, I have to agree with you. The page I was hoping you'd find is this: http://www.kennebell.net/techi...g.pdfYou might also want to check out the Lightning dyno runs. Pretty impressive.
I too looked around eBay and remanufacturers of Roots blowers but I don't feel that it is appropriate to resell a used product that I cannot personally guarantee. I also think that for efficiency and space' sake for the drive pulley (smaller), you should run a m62 instead of the m90 for less than 15psi. Bottom line is, from my research, why not start with the best technology available? Cost is a big factor but I'm not out to screw anyone (pardon the pun). I love the 240sx and feel that I can make a contribution to the KA faithful by offering these kits at reasonable rates.
Hurrikane: Wow that's great! Can you share more about your setup? I'm very interested. What compression ratio? What psi? Did you run an intercooler? etc...
About the intercooler: It can and will be available in the intake manifold for the higher PSI ranges. The stages and accompanying intercooler are going to be based on the KB Miata unit. Sorry I didn't intitially make that clear. ie. 9psi+ with intercooler.
If you're curious you can check out http://www.laminova.com for more info. These are the same parent company that make the Autorotor, which has acquired it's main competition,Lysholm, within the last couple weeks.
Thanks for you thoughts, keep 'em comin.
-Nate
My supercharging project should be of interest to many of you.
I am now planning a supercharger conversion on the single cam KA24E engine that I swapped into my '85 Nissan 720 pickup 6 years ago. At the time I used a '95 truck variant of the KA24E with an '89 240SX intake manifold & remote mass air flow meter swapped onto it (the truck block is required to fit in the 720 chassis due to its rear sump oil pan, and as it turns out the 240SX intake actually fits better in the 720 than the Hardbody truck intake did...+ it is good for an additional 6 hp over the truck intake system).
Anyway, for an even greater power increase I later decided I was going to eventually convert to a twin cam KA24DE from the '98 up Frontier truck (once again the use of the truck version of that engine block is required to fit in the 720 chassis) that I would also convert to 240SX status with the use of the more aggressive 240SX cams & intake system. After a good long hard look at what all was required & the additional costs to convert over to the twin cam version of the KA24 engine, I then thought about just supercharging the single cam KA24E that I already had swapped into it, since that would make way more power than a NA twin cam KA24DE engine would make anyway.
I looked at using the M90 Eaton blower from a '90-'95 Ford Thunderbird (although it is really a bit too large for the 2.4L size of the KA24 series engines), & even aquired one for $150 for just this purpose. As it turns out the single cam KA24E actually has a better intake manifold layout for bolting on an Eaton supercharger than the twin cam KA24DE engine does. This can be done by eliminating the top plenum with a custom made plenum that the Eaton blower can be bolted onto, and then some sort of custom rear inlet duct made to bolt the throttle body, remote recirculation valve, & idle air controller onto. Since the single cam 240SX KA24E lower intake runners come off the head by running downward at first & then turning back up to run into the bottom side of the removeable top plenum, then this idea is a very workable one (on the otherhand, the twin cam 240SX KA24DE intake does just the opposite, so it is virtually impossible to mount a supercharger on it without making an entirely new custom intake which would cost lots of money & time to make!!!).
I later looked at the M62 Eaton blower than comes on the '01-'04 Nissan Frontier 3.3L V6's (I found one of those for $200), and realized that it is absolutely PERFECT for the KA24E conversion, as it eliminates alot of the fabrication problems that the Ford Thunderbird M90 blower presented! To start off with, it is just the right size for any 2.4L engine since it is a smaller M62 instead of a M90 Eaton blower. It also has a built-in recirculation valve as well as a built-in rear inlet section that has a built-in mounting flange for the air inlet on the left side of the blower case 90 degrees from the centerline of the engine (as mounted on the 3.3L V6 it comes off of). Not only that, but it has a bit of internal plenum space already built into the bottom of the blower case casting, and also has external mounting bosses on the case that allow bolting the blower down to a flat plate from the top side of the blower itself. This allows a VERY SIMPLE 1 1/2"-2" thick aluminum plate that is milled out about 3/4"-1 1/4" deep in its center section (to form a bit more plenum volume) to be cut out and mounted directly to the KA24E's in-line runner lower intake manifold, and in turn allowing the Frontier's M62 Eaton blower to be bolted to this aluminum plate such that the stock drive pulley lines up with the outermost drive pulley on the crankshaft dampner. Since the blower case itself already has an integral recirculation valve built in to it, and the back of the case already has a 90 degree inlet built into the casting, then only a special inlet adapter needs to be made from a flat aluminum plate that the throttle body & idle air controller (from the stock 240SX) can bolt to. This would allow the air inlet with mass air flow meter to come in from the drivers side and cross over the top rear of the KA24E engine and then enter the blower thru the throttle body via some sort of rubber 45 degree inlet elbow.
Now, it is very simple to drive the blower by changing out the stock bolt-on drive pulley on the crankshaft dampner (the one that normally drives the power steering pulley) with a custom made 6 groove serpentine pulley or a modified pulley from some other engine (I found one from a BMW engine that I think I can make work for this conversion), and then relocating & replacing the power steering pump to also serve as an idler pulley for the blower drive belt onto the drivers side of the engine. I have found that it is best to use a power steering pump from an Altima as it already has a 6 groove pulley and is also oriented correctly for both the inlet & discharge hoses due to it being mounted on the same side of its engine (same as I propose to relocate to on the KA24E engine). Of course that is the toughest part of this conversion, as a special custom bracket that allows the pump to be adjusted for tensioning the drive belt is required to be made to mount this power steering pump over the top side of the KA24E's distributor, but as it turns out it isn't actually too bad to accomplish, and there appears to be ample threaded bosses on the head & front timing chain cover to bolt the custom bracketry to.
The only other mods required for this supercharger conversion would be to the ECU & fuel injection system. Currently I plan to upgrade to 370cc injectors operated by a reprogrammed JWT ECU, and a larger capacity Wallbro fuel pump. I expect a final power output somewhere around 200-210 hp at the crank @ 6 psi total boost without intercooler. With a custom intercooler made to fit into the adapter plenum that bolts to the lower intake (that may be possible, but I'm not sure if the extra thickness of the assembly would fit without causing the Eaton blower to run into the hood...besides, the intercooler idea isn't really planned for at this time), it might produce about 240-250 hp @ 9-10 psi. The entire cost for everything to complete this conversion is below $1000 at this time! (that is with me making the custom adapter plates & power steering bracket).
How does all of this sound to you all?
I am now planning a supercharger conversion on the single cam KA24E engine that I swapped into my '85 Nissan 720 pickup 6 years ago. At the time I used a '95 truck variant of the KA24E with an '89 240SX intake manifold & remote mass air flow meter swapped onto it (the truck block is required to fit in the 720 chassis due to its rear sump oil pan, and as it turns out the 240SX intake actually fits better in the 720 than the Hardbody truck intake did...+ it is good for an additional 6 hp over the truck intake system).
Anyway, for an even greater power increase I later decided I was going to eventually convert to a twin cam KA24DE from the '98 up Frontier truck (once again the use of the truck version of that engine block is required to fit in the 720 chassis) that I would also convert to 240SX status with the use of the more aggressive 240SX cams & intake system. After a good long hard look at what all was required & the additional costs to convert over to the twin cam version of the KA24 engine, I then thought about just supercharging the single cam KA24E that I already had swapped into it, since that would make way more power than a NA twin cam KA24DE engine would make anyway.
I looked at using the M90 Eaton blower from a '90-'95 Ford Thunderbird (although it is really a bit too large for the 2.4L size of the KA24 series engines), & even aquired one for $150 for just this purpose. As it turns out the single cam KA24E actually has a better intake manifold layout for bolting on an Eaton supercharger than the twin cam KA24DE engine does. This can be done by eliminating the top plenum with a custom made plenum that the Eaton blower can be bolted onto, and then some sort of custom rear inlet duct made to bolt the throttle body, remote recirculation valve, & idle air controller onto. Since the single cam 240SX KA24E lower intake runners come off the head by running downward at first & then turning back up to run into the bottom side of the removeable top plenum, then this idea is a very workable one (on the otherhand, the twin cam 240SX KA24DE intake does just the opposite, so it is virtually impossible to mount a supercharger on it without making an entirely new custom intake which would cost lots of money & time to make!!!).
I later looked at the M62 Eaton blower than comes on the '01-'04 Nissan Frontier 3.3L V6's (I found one of those for $200), and realized that it is absolutely PERFECT for the KA24E conversion, as it eliminates alot of the fabrication problems that the Ford Thunderbird M90 blower presented! To start off with, it is just the right size for any 2.4L engine since it is a smaller M62 instead of a M90 Eaton blower. It also has a built-in recirculation valve as well as a built-in rear inlet section that has a built-in mounting flange for the air inlet on the left side of the blower case 90 degrees from the centerline of the engine (as mounted on the 3.3L V6 it comes off of). Not only that, but it has a bit of internal plenum space already built into the bottom of the blower case casting, and also has external mounting bosses on the case that allow bolting the blower down to a flat plate from the top side of the blower itself. This allows a VERY SIMPLE 1 1/2"-2" thick aluminum plate that is milled out about 3/4"-1 1/4" deep in its center section (to form a bit more plenum volume) to be cut out and mounted directly to the KA24E's in-line runner lower intake manifold, and in turn allowing the Frontier's M62 Eaton blower to be bolted to this aluminum plate such that the stock drive pulley lines up with the outermost drive pulley on the crankshaft dampner. Since the blower case itself already has an integral recirculation valve built in to it, and the back of the case already has a 90 degree inlet built into the casting, then only a special inlet adapter needs to be made from a flat aluminum plate that the throttle body & idle air controller (from the stock 240SX) can bolt to. This would allow the air inlet with mass air flow meter to come in from the drivers side and cross over the top rear of the KA24E engine and then enter the blower thru the throttle body via some sort of rubber 45 degree inlet elbow.
Now, it is very simple to drive the blower by changing out the stock bolt-on drive pulley on the crankshaft dampner (the one that normally drives the power steering pulley) with a custom made 6 groove serpentine pulley or a modified pulley from some other engine (I found one from a BMW engine that I think I can make work for this conversion), and then relocating & replacing the power steering pump to also serve as an idler pulley for the blower drive belt onto the drivers side of the engine. I have found that it is best to use a power steering pump from an Altima as it already has a 6 groove pulley and is also oriented correctly for both the inlet & discharge hoses due to it being mounted on the same side of its engine (same as I propose to relocate to on the KA24E engine). Of course that is the toughest part of this conversion, as a special custom bracket that allows the pump to be adjusted for tensioning the drive belt is required to be made to mount this power steering pump over the top side of the KA24E's distributor, but as it turns out it isn't actually too bad to accomplish, and there appears to be ample threaded bosses on the head & front timing chain cover to bolt the custom bracketry to.
The only other mods required for this supercharger conversion would be to the ECU & fuel injection system. Currently I plan to upgrade to 370cc injectors operated by a reprogrammed JWT ECU, and a larger capacity Wallbro fuel pump. I expect a final power output somewhere around 200-210 hp at the crank @ 6 psi total boost without intercooler. With a custom intercooler made to fit into the adapter plenum that bolts to the lower intake (that may be possible, but I'm not sure if the extra thickness of the assembly would fit without causing the Eaton blower to run into the hood...besides, the intercooler idea isn't really planned for at this time), it might produce about 240-250 hp @ 9-10 psi. The entire cost for everything to complete this conversion is below $1000 at this time! (that is with me making the custom adapter plates & power steering bracket).
How does all of this sound to you all?
-
iwantanr34
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 4:30 am
- Car: dori
asad wrote:Most supercharger setups don't use anything to regulate the boost except the pulley size. If you think about it, there's no WAY a supercharger can overboost -- because in order to get more boost, you need to spin it faster...and there's no "failure mode" for a supercharger that would cause that. Only way to do it would be to pick the wrong-sized pulley.
edit: oh, I guess I thought of one way -- if you downshift into the wrong gear and spin the engine faster than redline, you'll get more boost (definitely the case with a centrifugal supercharger, and most likely true with a positive-displacement blower too).
Asad
yeah, i figured that much, but even with the stock pulley on the m90, i was still worried about cranking it up and boosting 15 lbs right off the bat. i was planning on keeping the original pulley with the setup cause i couldnt really afford a new one, and was hoping to regulate whatever was coming out of the supercharger with a pop-off valve.
tloof: i see what youre saying with the m62, but ive never gotten a good look at them except for pictures, and i thought that maybe the compressor outlet flange would be a bit too large to work with and would cause mounting problems... but im gonna go to a few junkyards and try to get a hold of one. just gotta find someone to buy the m90 off me now...
with the s14 ka24de, the only pulley on intake side is the alternator, which is going to be a royal pain in the *** to relocate, not to mention a thousand random lines that are all going to get in the way. you sound like youve got most everything figured out except the most important thing: belts. thats the main reason i gave up, aside from not wanting to CNC a custom crank pulley. youre expected hp sounds a bit ambitious, but i hope it does end up making that much power. as for me, boost envy has got me tweakin for ka-t, but i hope to be a ka-r eventually :pface
iwantanR34,
I think the the hp I anticipate to get out of the supercharged single cam KA24E should be reasonable, as I was talking about flywheel hp not rwhp. The gain equates to a 40-50% gain at 6 psig boost (most likely the 40% is all I'll get which is close to the 200 hp mark...but that will be hp that is instantaneous and more street usable than a turbo setup would give). The actual rwhp would be more like 175-180 hp with this setup.
The '01-'04 Frontier V6's M62 Eaton blower does have a large outlet flange (it is about 7" wide x 13" long), but it is the later more efficient 4th generation MP62 version of the Eaton blower that has a built-in recirculation valve, so it really simplifies any installation made. The case actually has some internal plenum volume already built into it, so a simple 1.5" thick aluminum plate can be cut out to mount to this outlet flange, and some additional plenum volume created by milling the center area of the plate out to a depth of around 1" in order to get sufficient plenum volume for the KA24E engine. This plate can then be bolted to the single cam KA24E's lower intake by drilling the mounting bolt pattern in it, and cutting the four intake runner holes in the bottom of it).
Now, trying to mount this MP62 blower to the twin cam KA24DE is a different story. No part of the stock two part KA24DE intake manifold is really usable. The idea here is that the blower is mounted over the top of the alternator and coolant outlet nozzle of the KA24E's lower intake assembly such that the alternator works "as is" in its stock location. Of course since I am using the outermost crank pulley (with a custom made drive pulley to replace it) that drives the power steering pump, then I have to relocate the pump to the drivers side on the KA24E engine to clear the blowers drive pulley and serve as a tensioner pulley as well. The twin cam KA24DE already has the power steering pump on the drivers side of the engine, so that obviously would not present a problem, but some sort of custom intake manifold would be required to mount the blower such that it can sit above the alternator & coolant outlet nozzle. Maybe the top runners of the KA24DE intake manifold could be cut off and a plenum plate assembly welded to them that allows the MP62 blower to bolt up to them. the problem with that idea though is that the blower would have to be turned on its side to acheive that, and it may end up sitting too high to clear the hood (that would have to be considered with careful measurement). As for my single cam KA24E engine, the blower sitting directly on top of the lower intake with a 1.5" thick mounting plate sets the blower top exactly 1.5" higher than the stock valve cover itself (the stock KA24E upper plenum is 5" tall and the blower is 5.5" tall, so it replaces the upper intake plenum with ease, and the adapter plate adds an extra 1.5" to the overall height), so the entire assembly will fit under my 720 pickup's hood with no problem (although I only have about 1" of clearance up front for the drive pulley to clear the hood). I don't know how much hood clearance that the 240SX's have (but I bet it is tighter than my 720 truck), so even this idea used on the single cam '89-'90 240SX's with the single cam KA24E engine may not work. The use of it on the twin cam KA24DE may be even worse, unless maybe the KA24DE intake manifold from the '98 up Frontier truck is used (it has runners that come off the head and go downward & then turns up to a mounting flange for the throttle valve/mass air flow meter unit that looks similar to a carburetor. The Frontier intake has very small runners when compared to the 240SX intake though, so it wouldn't make as much power in the long run as a custom intake.
For me, I think that with some heavy porting of the single cam KA24E head (with MAJOR concentration on the exhaust side by going to a larger valve) and the lower intake, that it is probably close to being equal to the twin cam KA24DE head in the end (the blower will easily make up for any slight deficiency) and the best KA24 series engine to use due to the easier fit of the blower on the stock lower intake!!! The twin cam KA24DE just has way too many obstacles to overcome in comparison, and for only a 5-10 hp gain at best is just not worth the effort, time, & cost to convert for my application in my opinion.
Oh well, custom installations such as this can be a royal "pain in the ***" to accomplish!
I think the the hp I anticipate to get out of the supercharged single cam KA24E should be reasonable, as I was talking about flywheel hp not rwhp. The gain equates to a 40-50% gain at 6 psig boost (most likely the 40% is all I'll get which is close to the 200 hp mark...but that will be hp that is instantaneous and more street usable than a turbo setup would give). The actual rwhp would be more like 175-180 hp with this setup.
The '01-'04 Frontier V6's M62 Eaton blower does have a large outlet flange (it is about 7" wide x 13" long), but it is the later more efficient 4th generation MP62 version of the Eaton blower that has a built-in recirculation valve, so it really simplifies any installation made. The case actually has some internal plenum volume already built into it, so a simple 1.5" thick aluminum plate can be cut out to mount to this outlet flange, and some additional plenum volume created by milling the center area of the plate out to a depth of around 1" in order to get sufficient plenum volume for the KA24E engine. This plate can then be bolted to the single cam KA24E's lower intake by drilling the mounting bolt pattern in it, and cutting the four intake runner holes in the bottom of it).
Now, trying to mount this MP62 blower to the twin cam KA24DE is a different story. No part of the stock two part KA24DE intake manifold is really usable. The idea here is that the blower is mounted over the top of the alternator and coolant outlet nozzle of the KA24E's lower intake assembly such that the alternator works "as is" in its stock location. Of course since I am using the outermost crank pulley (with a custom made drive pulley to replace it) that drives the power steering pump, then I have to relocate the pump to the drivers side on the KA24E engine to clear the blowers drive pulley and serve as a tensioner pulley as well. The twin cam KA24DE already has the power steering pump on the drivers side of the engine, so that obviously would not present a problem, but some sort of custom intake manifold would be required to mount the blower such that it can sit above the alternator & coolant outlet nozzle. Maybe the top runners of the KA24DE intake manifold could be cut off and a plenum plate assembly welded to them that allows the MP62 blower to bolt up to them. the problem with that idea though is that the blower would have to be turned on its side to acheive that, and it may end up sitting too high to clear the hood (that would have to be considered with careful measurement). As for my single cam KA24E engine, the blower sitting directly on top of the lower intake with a 1.5" thick mounting plate sets the blower top exactly 1.5" higher than the stock valve cover itself (the stock KA24E upper plenum is 5" tall and the blower is 5.5" tall, so it replaces the upper intake plenum with ease, and the adapter plate adds an extra 1.5" to the overall height), so the entire assembly will fit under my 720 pickup's hood with no problem (although I only have about 1" of clearance up front for the drive pulley to clear the hood). I don't know how much hood clearance that the 240SX's have (but I bet it is tighter than my 720 truck), so even this idea used on the single cam '89-'90 240SX's with the single cam KA24E engine may not work. The use of it on the twin cam KA24DE may be even worse, unless maybe the KA24DE intake manifold from the '98 up Frontier truck is used (it has runners that come off the head and go downward & then turns up to a mounting flange for the throttle valve/mass air flow meter unit that looks similar to a carburetor. The Frontier intake has very small runners when compared to the 240SX intake though, so it wouldn't make as much power in the long run as a custom intake.
For me, I think that with some heavy porting of the single cam KA24E head (with MAJOR concentration on the exhaust side by going to a larger valve) and the lower intake, that it is probably close to being equal to the twin cam KA24DE head in the end (the blower will easily make up for any slight deficiency) and the best KA24 series engine to use due to the easier fit of the blower on the stock lower intake!!! The twin cam KA24DE just has way too many obstacles to overcome in comparison, and for only a 5-10 hp gain at best is just not worth the effort, time, & cost to convert for my application in my opinion.
Oh well, custom installations such as this can be a royal "pain in the ***" to accomplish!
-
iwantanr34
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 4:30 am
- Car: dori
yeah, it really will be... i was plannin on using my stock intake mani flange and runners and welding on a custom surge tank that would originally have had the m90 leaning at about 45 degrees for clearance issues, but im sure i can do the same thing with the mp62, but im still going to have to make custom brackets to support the weight of the SC itself. as for underhood clearance, the first idea i thought of as a joke might actually work... i took the m90 and sat it on top of the valve cover, and with a few smiple brackets and a HUGE hole cut in the hood it will work perfectly, hahaha. oh well, time to give the m62 a try, going to a few junkyards sometime this week. what about the mp62 now? never heard of that... did it come on the frontiers?
-
iwantanr34
- Posts: 51
- Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 4:30 am
- Car: dori