KA24DE-Z Anyone?

[tloof]

The MP62 Eaton blower I'm talking about comes on the Nissan 3.3L V6 as an option in the '01-'04 Frontier crew cab truck & Exterra SUV's.

They can be hard to find, and will generally cost about $350-450 (with attaching inlet duct) when you do.

Good luck on your search!

[danm3286]

see this is the problem with a ka24de-r. it sounds like its gonna be a pain in the *** to put on. im tempted to go turbo but i dont want to have to wait for the thing to kick in. i want to have it off the line... so i want the supercharger. are there any superchargers out there that can hook right up to the ka24de and put out about 225 rwhp???

[MainEvent212]

i dont see why a top mounted blower w/ some interesting piping wont work out...

[tloof]

How can you mount the blower case on the top of the twin cam KA24DE engine (either above the valve cover or above the KA24DE's long runner intake manifold) without it running into the hood? I just don't see where it is possible. Some sort of custom intake manifold will be required to fit the blower under the hood on the twin cam KA24DE engine as far as I can determine.

Now the single cam KA24E is another story, as the blower WILL fit under the hood by eliminating the stock 5" tall upper intake plenum & bolting the 5.5" tall M62 blower case to a 1.5" thick aluminum adapter plate (this plate will need about 1" of additional plenum space milled into it) that is bolted to the stock KA24E lower intake. The KA24E's lower intake is even supported below it by a strong steel bracket to the engine block, so no additional support will be required for the blower at all. It really is a great setup all-in-all, but will be limited to only about 8 psig tops due to no intercooler. Still, with 8 psig the single cam KA24E ought to come close to 225 hp or so.

[corn322]

tloof, that sounds freakin awesome. I want one now. better start saving up some money...

[Turb0wned]

good luck with the supercharger but i like perfer turbo

[danm3286]

wont fit under the hood? a friend of mine had that same problem. so what was the solution? he bought a high rise hood. there you go problem solved. couldnt you add a hoodscoop to the stock hood and cut out a hole for the supercharger? granted i am just throwing out ideas with no experience in that type of work but it sounds to me like it is a possible solution to the problem

[xxtrizz]

tloof what other modifications do you think a person should do to help improve performance from this supercharger set up? Basically im wondering if you would reccomend any engine intternals special sylinder heads or valves? Or maybe even what reccomended injectors? But if you could get this to work I might rebuild my sohc and buy the supercharger from you if you could make a system for the sohc.

[tloof]

No modifications are really required on the engine if you keep it below 8 psig boost. I would however, have the single cam KA24E head ported and the exhaust valve size increased (the exhaust side needs the most help) to help improve its flow capability to closer match that of the twin cam KA24DE head. Previous flow bench tests that were done on the KA24 series heads and posted on the FreshAlloy 240SX site indicated that the stock twin cam KA24DE head flows 240 cfm on the intake & 196 cfm on the exhaust. The stock single cam KA24E head flows 208 cfm on the intake and 147 cfm on the exhaust. As you can see the intake side of the SOHC head isn't too bad in comparison to the DOHC head (the M62 Eaton supercharger could easily make up for that difference anyway without port work on the intake side), and with some minor porting work would probably come close to matching the stock DOHC head's flow. The exhaust side is an altogether different issue, and will require massive porting work and an exhaust valve size increase (46 mm maybe?) to help bring it up close to what the stock DOHC head flows if possible. Regardless, a good set of free flow large diameter headers will be required to help get out the increased flow that the supercharger can cram into the cylinder heads!

Just for comparison sakes, if the DOHC head were to be ported, it will achieve around 274 cfm on the intake side and 233 cfm on the exhaust side (these values were also posted on the FreshAlloy 240SX site). As you can see the exhaust work increased the flow around 37 cfm, so about the same could be expected with only port work on the SOHC (this would up the SOHC head's flow to around 184 cfm which is still shy of the stock DOHC head's 196 cfm), so upping the exhaust valve size will be required to increase the flow even more! No modified SOHC head flows have yet been posted on any website I have looked at so far, so I don't know for sure what it is really capable of. One thing is for certain, the DOHC head IS superior to the SOHC head, but unfortunately there appears to be no easy way to mount an Eaton blower to the DOHC engine like there is to the SOHC engine. This is why I am going to stick with my existing single cam KA24E engine that I swapped into my '85 Nissan 720 pickup, and just add the MP62 Eaton supercharger to it (that is with a modified head to approach the stock DOHC head flow capability).

The only other modifications to do to the engine is to add stock Nissan 300ZX TT 370cc injectors, and have the ECU reprogrammed by JWT for this setup.

By the way, I'm not planning to offer a supercharger kit for any of the KA24 series engines, I am only doing this conversion on my own KA24E engine. I only brought all of this up for helping others on this forum to plan their own conversion, and for any comments others might have to my ideas.

[xxtrizz]

Well it came to mind that you might not be offering it. Isnt the engine set up different in the Nissan Pickup than that of the 240? They should make a revolutionary forced induction one that is relic of the systems off of the blowers for like big blocks on chevy's and fords. But then I suppose you wouldnt be able to mount it off the top of the engine since its an inline not a V shaped system. Or maybe I should jsut save up for a 350z and get that stillen charger for it and the hood. That would be beautiful.

[tloof]

Yeah, the Nissan pickups have an entirely different engine block in them compared to the 240SX's, the main difference being that the trucks have rear sump oil pans & the 240SX's have front sump pans. There are some other minor differences also, such as the starter mounts with bolts that come from the engine side and screw directly into the bellhousing on the trucks, whereas the 240SX has bolts that come from the transmission side thru the block and screwing into the starter itself. While the oil pan on the SOHC KA24E truck engines CAN be retrofited to the '89-'90 SOHC 240SX engines, that is NOT possible on the DOHC versions since the KA24DE engine in the 240SX has an entirely different design front timing chain cover that has an integral crank driven planetary oil pump (the SOHC engines all have an oil pump driven by the distributor shaft), and has a different oil pan to timing chain bolt pattern and shape.

One thing to keep in mind though, the 240SX intake manifolds on both the SOHC & DOHC motors can be retrofitted to their respective truck version engines to gain about 6 hp in each case.

As for getting a 350Z with supercharger, I'd rather get an Infinity FX45 AWD vehicle and swap on the aftermarket supercharger setup for the 4.5L V8 that makes around 450 hp. It would blow a 350Z into the weeds! (on wet or dry pavement).

[nissandrift]

i like the idea, def. at the top of to do list.

[iwantanr34]

i dont see why a top mounted blower w/ some interesting piping wont work out...

it will, just like I said before. but i dont really want a foot tall hood scoop on the s14, or just have the thing popping out. if its going to be mounted anywhere for the DE, it'll be underneath a custom intake manifold, again, as i said before.

...It really is a great setup all-in-all, but will be limited to only about 8 psig tops due to no intercooler. Still, with 8 psig the single cam KA24E ought to come close to 225 hp or so.

again, that number sounds very ambitious...

you can intercool the intake mani.. ive seen it done before with an A/W core right in the surge tank. cant remember who makes the kit, but its a great design.

[tloof]

You might be correct that 225 hp may be a bit ambitious, but that value is flywheel hp not RWHP and it is based on a max of 8 psig boost. In reality I only plan to use a max of 6 psig boost, and hope to get 195-200 flywheel hp (about 180 RWHP) out of it. Surely an increase of 40% seems reasonable for this setup?

Attempting to sandwich a air/water intercooler core in between the lower intake & the blower will cause the blower installation to be raised up about another 2"-3" in height, and will then cause interferance with the hood. Because of this, I previously ruled out the use of an intercooler and decided to limit the boost to only 6 psig. If I can get 200 hp out of this combination then I will be happy with it in my light 720 pickup. Of course even more power would be great, and I have a backup plan to maybe convert to a supercharged '98-'03 model Buick 3800 V6 with T5 manual trans. It would require using a Ford Lightning MP112 Eaton blower with '96 up RWD Camaro lower intake and custom adapter plate to bolt the blower down to it in order to convert it to a RWD configuration that will fit under my hood, but it would be good for about 280-300 hp in the end!!! How's that grab you?

[xxtrizz]

Sounds like your a mechanical engineer tloof? If so what schools did you attend?

[iwantanr34]

"sounds" like a mechanical engineer? you leghumper...

anyway, 40% increase seems reasonable... with fuel. oh, i keep forgetting youre putting the SC on TOP of the mani... silly single cams. IC could still be done though, or you could make a really simple water injection system to keep temps down.

the buick sounds tough.. im pretty sure there is already a supercharged buick or olds. (same company anyway) and i think youd be able to use some parts from that..

just saw that you were talking about getting a JWT computer tune before... if you can get around it i would, i dont trust their work. get a standalone or just a good piggy-back if you want, most of their ecu tunes end up being pretty rich...

[tloof]

Yes, you are correct, I am a degreed mech eng from Texas A&M University.

While an A/W intercooler could be done, I really don't want to have to modify my hood to fit it in. Also, there really isn't any good way to duct flow from the blower to a A/A intercooler either, not without attempting to locate the blower elsewhere (which won't fit in the extremely tight engine well of my '85 720 pickup). The arrangement I have come up with, and the blower chosen ('01-'04 Frontier 3.3L V6 Eaton blower) is all that will work reasonably without MAJOR modifications on both the engine & chassis of the truck! It would make more sense to divert to the use of the supercharged 3.8L Buick V6 if anything more difficult than the conversion I described on the SOHC KA24E engine were attempted.

As for using a standalone controller vs the JWT reprogrammed ECU, it seems that would be a very expensive solution to such a low boost setup. Maybe just using a FMU is a better low cost option? I do admit that I have no experience with how well the JWT reprogramed ECU's function, so any of you out there that do, any better suggestions are welcomed!

[iwantanr34]

if youre planning on keeping at around 10 psi max or under that, an fmu will work just fine, like an apexi s-afc, HKS f-con, greddy e01.

oh and i never suggested using an a/a IC, it would be basically pointless with all the piping youd have to run.

[Chezedik]

I will have the money in April, I intend to supercharge whether there is a prefab kit or not. I was looking at the procharger sport compact kit, but I would prefer a prefab for my S13. You have my interest. Could this unit run on stock or nearly stock fuel setup? How is the ECU retune getting done. I am involved in another forum where a fellow has produced a Standalone utilizing the GM MAF, take a look. But I am definately very interested and would be willing to use my car for testing. At least if I do that I will not be the only one testing out my unit. I am all about this.

[Ghettokracker71]

Meh....thesnail working on a clutch-type blower for a KADE,I think that his design has ALOT more potentail and is a better set-up. No offence I'm just not big on the twin-screw blower set-ups.

Whats the most amount of boost your set-up could see?

[sil80S13]

pweh alot of work.... super charging seems soo complicated lol.

[Ghettokracker71]

Not as bad a turbocharging something Sil80

[sil80S13]

noo turbo charginh is not as hard as a supercharger

[Tsukai240]

i would like to see the SC happen for the 240, but if the price for the consumer is way above that of a turbo which offers the same ammount of power then the whole thing is a waste.

[Ghettokracker71]

So long as the blower can effeciently support 15+ pounds of boost,it will support more power then I could ever need. But 3Gs isn't cheap:(

[drifts14x]

err...hmmm, sounds good?

[Julio Bro!]

Hi NateDogg: I'll say you'd be making a dream from some of us a reality, and a great one. I tried talking to some SC makers, but they wouldn't do it without guaranteed customers. I too think the Kennebell should be the best setup.

What I feel the biggest problem here is money, so I was thinking about what could be done to lower the cost. What about leaving the stock manifold (oh, I tried searching for the "straight shot" you mentioned, but can't find it)? I think the S13 manifold is a work of art and probably would help the setup. I saw the Miata setup and they use the blower at the exhaust side, this would leave the stock manifold untouched. Also, most of us have a performance intake, so you wouldn't need to include that...unless you provide a poly-heat resistant unit that would work better than the metal ones.

So, leaving the stock manifold and, for the ones who already have one, the owner's intake should make for what...a $1000 savings? I'd say that's about right; a 200hp+ setup for $2k. That's easy to loan or, even better, to charge on the credit card.

What do you think?

[cory2081]

Get a Procharger. Centrifugal is where it's at. Eaton blowers are inexpensive, reliable, but, making all of that bolt onto the manifold is just too much b.s. I've been wanting to do this, but, due to the lack of funds, I have yet to do it. Since the Prochargers mount "backwards" (the actual blower pulley is between the engine and the blower assembly) I think that it would be fairly easy to mount. not only that, it's much easier to intercool than a roots type. Another good thing is the Procharger is self contained, no oil lines. I have installed one of these on a 98 Mustang and it runs VERY well. The power is always on tap and it sounds so sweet at idle. Just a suggestion. The Eaton blowers are limited and become inefficient at high boost levels, the Procharger will not have a problem keeping up with a highly modified KA. I hope to eventually mount one of these, if someone doesnt beat me to it. I have the resources to get everything made, just dont have the $$$.

[Spongebob]

if the supercharger is gonna cost more than a turbo kit then why would i want one for the same amount of boost? besides, a turbo is better at higher boost anyways.

[cory2081]

I didnt say the KIT would cost more, I just said that the unit is more expensive than an Eaton unit. The actual kit would be very competitive with the price of a turbo kit.