KA24DE timing problem?

[burnin240sx]

I have just finished a headgasket job and even though i paint marked the chains and gears as to put them back in the correct order. I have come to 2 conclusions. 1 i did move the engine as to clean the cylnders. so i belive the engine might be at TDC and the cams may be at 180 of that. Maybe this is y she won't start

2 maybe i messed up in reassembling the timing chain on the cams.

i have found some help from another thread on how they should be positioned since the ****ING chiltons is a waste of my money. i can't find the needed info there. thanks to drjohn i do have some helpful info.

Int.cam lobe tends to point to the valve cover gasket surface at about 45 min as on a clock and the ex. cam is about 15min after and pointing to the valve cover surface. The links between int. and ex. cam is 14 links.14 links ex cam and lower idler gear and 24 links from idler to int. cam. The chain should still have shinie or faded yellow links on it at timing points. Make sure eng. is tdc on compression stroke before setting valve timing. On that model if you have it down that far remove and discard both top chain tensioners as they are not needed as per the factory. You should consider doing a complete chain and gear replacement if the timing has jumped do to loose chains.

so for me to figure out if my problem is 1,2 or both can someone inform me of how i can tell if my engine is at 180 cam of TDC.

on another note where can i get a FSM? a NISSAN dealer?

[DAEDALUS]

If your cams were off 180, I think you would be hitting valves, no? Your sprockets should each have a mark on one tooth that you use to line up with the colored links on the chain. If each sprocket has 2 marks, opposite each other, then the camshaft will probably have a dowel pin also that points in the same direction as the correct mark. Once you know your engine is at #1 TDC, use the marks on the cam and crank sprockets and the marks on the chain (3 pairs of marks) to line everything up right. Be careful though. Make sure you don't turn a cam and force a valve into a piston. A good practice when playing with valve timing is to turn the crank by hand 720* before giving it a start *just in case*.Perhaps your crank/cam timing is correct, but your distributor/spark timing isn't?

[NISTECH]

on a 4cyl with the cam 180 out the pistons are in the same position and wont hit the valves just the intake and exhuast would be backwards,the engine would pull air in from the exhuast on intake and push it threw the intake on the exhuast stroke.

If you had the mark on the crank shaft lined up with the mark on the block with the dist pointing at number 1 and the cam shafts set up with their marks in the TDC spot you are ok.

[NISTECH]

here this may help a little bit.

[burnin240sx]

you see the problem with the timing chain marks is that mine only has 1 silver link. so my best bet is counting of the theeth.

nistech thanks a ton for them there pic's that's a lot more info then in my chiltons

[burnin240sx]

where can i get a FSM anyone?

[droll]

where can i get a FSM anyone?

I got mine from eBay.

[NISTECH]

those pages are from the factory service manual.

[burnin240sx]

Should I have to use a wrench to position the cams at the correct position when I put the timing chain on? Or should they just be set in place with no pressure used to turn them other then making sure they are facing the correct direction with the dots?

[burnin240sx]

i'm assuming no pressure cause the engine it supose to be at TDC and all valve should be closed. correct?

[BadMojo]

where can i get a FSM anyone?

I ordered mine from my friendly local Nissan dealer. Well worth the $$$. It's already paid for itself several times over.

[DAEDALUS]

i'm assuming no pressure cause the engine it supose to be at TDC and all valve should be closed. correct?

TDC only refers to 1 cylinder (well, 2). I think most engines have companion cylinder pairs, meaning that each pair of pistons is at the exact same location. If one pair is at TDC on a 4-cyl, the other pair is at BDC. Of the 2 pistons at TDC, one is on the compresson stroke, and one is on the exhaust stroke. Of the 2 at BDC, one is on the power stroke, and the other is on the intake stroke. Same thing on a V-8, except you have 4 pairs of pistons, one pair every 90* on the crankshaft.

[burnin240sx]

hey i found them there 3 marks on the chain finaly. there a quite a bit faded after 150k miles. so i'm going to take the bottom cover off and aline everything up to the fsm. thanks a TON guys.

[burnin240sx]

i'm gona change the water pump while i'm in there too. i'll let you know how things go on thursday cause that's when i got my next day off and have the time to do the work.

[NISTECH]

the cams will have some resitance when bringing them up on their marks as the 2 cyl that are down have valves on the way closed or begining to open, so yes they will need a little help achieving their marks. the crank should be free floating and easy to move,if its not then that would be a sign of valve contact[not good] dont move the crank to much or you will hit a valve eventually.

[burnin240sx]

I’ll turn the cram by hand before I try to start her up just in case since this is my first head gasket job and first timing job. I really appreciate all your help.

[NISTECH]

once the chain is installed turn the crank not the cam by hand with the spark plugs removed,it should be smooth. if all the sudden it gets hard to turn your hitting a valve. if you leave the plugs in you will feel resistance as a cyl reaches TDC due to the compression factor this is why you want them out,so you can get a true feel if you hit something.

[burnin240sx]

Thanks I appreciate your tip but I had planed on doing that anyway. And I knew about the plugs and the valves. Still defiantly a good tip for future readers of this thread who will be doing the same thing

[burnin240sx]

got one question before i remove the lower timing chain to make sure i get the timing correct. can i take off the lower cover without removeing the oil pan? can i just use lots of rtv on the pan when i reassemble? i should remove the pan anyways cause i'm sure it could use a good scraping and i would like to get a few dents out

[NISTECH]

you need to remove the pan since the oil pick-up tube is attached to the front cover, you wont be able to remove the cover cause the tube will hang up in the pan.

[BadMojo]

you need to remove the pan since the oil pick-up tube is attached to the front cover, you wont be able to remove the cover cause the tube will hang up in the pan.

Not to thread-jack, but I'm going to be dropping the pan on my car soon (Nistech, you helped me out in another post here in this forum).

Nistech, correct me if I'm wrong, but to drop the pan we would..

1) Remove the fan shroud to get a little bit of clearance for the fan when the engine is lifted.

2) Unbolt engine mounts from the crossmember, not the engine itself.

3) Jack engine up by the crankshaft. Lift it a few inches to clear the crossmember.

4) Unbolt the oil pan and slip it out from under the engine. Remove the two bolts holding the pick-up on and then remove front cover, etc.

Question: Besides the motor mounts, does anything have to be disconnected to lift the engine enough to get the pan out? Are any of the vacuum lines, exhaust or the transmission mount going to be a problem?

Burnin240SX...if you figure this out, you wanna come to my house and help me fix my car too?

[NISTECH]

there may be little details I cant think of at the moment. but that is pretty much the gist of it. You may need to unbolt the P/S rack and reposition it [ might have that confused with the Z car since they all look the same to me from underneath....lol] I just had one of my guys pull a pan on a 240 a couple weeks ago I think all that was really involved was dropping the cross member down to get it out. I was gonna do it myself but I had a 03 sentra no start issue that was kicking my a$$.

[burnin240sx]

I am planning on supporting the engine by the head where the fsm say's while I drop the cross member to get the lower timing chain cover off. And I’ll clean the pan since it's out anyway. I don't understand y u need to drop the pan to remove the lower timing chain. Damn engineers can't make this **** simple.

[burnin240sx]

Ok update.

Same problem turns but will not start.

I have re aligned the timing chain to what the fsm and all the dots and shiny chain parts lined up perfectly so I know my timing chain is on perfectly.

And I adjusted the distributor the way it says in the manual. Even though I thinking that if I adjust it a little more tomorrow it may start. What else can my problem be?

Things I know1 timing chain on properly2 compressions on all cylinders3 have spark4 fuel pump works I can hear it when I turn the car on and it kicks on after turning the engine in attempting to start.5 engine at TDC and distributor setup with dot on shaft aligned to slot on shaft doesn't mean it's going to ****ing start.

Anyone have any clues?

[burnin240sx]

Badmojo, You got it that's all you need. If the cross member doesn't drop far enough unbolt the gussets and removing the sway bar helps in removal of the oil pan. And unbolting the engine /trany mounts helps get access to some pan bolts too, the manual says to remove the power steering lines and unbolt the u joint but is un necessary.

I used a cherry picker to lift my engine because using a jack on the crank didn't sound too healthy for my engine

[NISTECH]

you need to check for injector pulse, get a noid light from the parts store . Plug it into one of the injector connectors and see if it flashes when cranking.

[burnin240sx]

just got back from getting a noid light and i am getting a good light. this is a bad thing. what do i do now? everything apears to be working. i'm going to mess with the timing some more

[NISTECH]

well assuming the mechanical timing is absolutly correct this car should start. you have the 3 elements needed to fire the cyl. Fuel,spark and pressure.

There is no reason it shouldnt at least try to fire.

Is the spark strong? What exactly is your compression? How old is the fuel?

[DAEDALUS]

Can you do a quick double-check of the spark with a timing light? Check #1 for timing, then check the other 3 too just for spark. I don't wanna sound like an a55, but double check the plug wires too for correct firing order.

[burnin240sx]

well i tryed some starting fluid and it started right up for like 3 secondsso i'm going to get a fuel pressure testor and test to see if that's my problem. which i think it is.