KA24DE(T) Megasquirt 2 V3 help- Need help. Krazy,Zig,480sx,Anyone... Please?

[eazye2000]

Just to add my $.02

I have messed with a MS on a 3.xCL Acura and it was a nightmare. I really didn't like the software that came with it. Now I didn't install, or hook up anything. I just helped the kid try to get it tuned.

The issue, which most of us agree on, is the crappy wheel in our distributors. One slot, and optical. The cheapest alternative is the Mitsu wheel like stated before. But for good linearity, the 24-1 is the primo option.

Now, for the 'True DIY' guy, there is no set ECU that sets you apart. I still run 27SF512's in my old school Calum daughterboard. I also tune it myself. What sucks is I don't have a dyno. But then that would make it too easy. I just have to come in, make new changes to my tune, re-burn, and plug them back in.There are pros, and cons of everything out there.

Up until a year ago, I was a 'DIY' type of guy. I built my motor, welded up, and plasma cut everything on the car. I have a MIG, and a TIG, as well as a hobby shop here on base with every tool imaginable. BUT... I had no idea how to tune. So I opted to get a board with a base tune and go from there.

$150 bucks later, I had a few sets of chips, a daughterboard, a willem burner, and a consult cable at my disposal. What was great about this setup, is that there are LOTS of people out there to help you when you are stuck with something. With the MS, there is not. Not to say there wont be in the future, though.

Anyways, that's all I got.

[480sx]

Show me a large group of KAT guys that have the MS running trouble free. Trouble free meaning no idle/stalling issues and no issues with start or rich conditions. By large I mean 100 or more...because that's what it takes to be considered reliable and functional.

Yea, thats pretty much exactly the point. Seriously, WD has been around since i was fkin with a Ka24de and the stock trigger wheel. At that point, no one that i could find on the WHOLE INTERWEBZ had done a ka24de before. It was all DIY-Autotune 'theory' i believe. I was down for 3 months during my learning period with the ECU. Although i got it started, running and drivable, i never figured out the CAS thing till later and killed a starter. Lol till someone else figured it out, i got fed up when i left my ignition on overnight It killed the battery, in addition to that it got the ignition driver 'chip' so hot that it desoldered itself from the upside down board mounted in my car. I ordered 2 of the new chips and was like wait, i want to drive my fvking car. Then i got a rom tune and jacked the SAFC off my SR. : )

Seriously people underestimate this thing all the time and you see them in the for sale section in a few months. In my opinion, if the car is your daily driver and you have nothing else, MS isnt an option. There is almost always going to be unexpected downtime.

Seriously, everyone who has gotten it to work has had problems where they have come to different forums or here to get it to run. I think i only know of one Ka-T MS2 powered car..

[WDRacing]

Just so I can make informed opinions I read through some of the new software options and all the various improvements done to MS over the last couple years. MS has definitly come a long way from gen 1.

I think it's a good system if you're the type of person that likes troubleshooting and doing everything from scratch with basically no real support. The MS forums are great, but forums can't be considered support IMO.

I hope a few of you guys work out ALL of the kinks and it becomes very straight forward. Maybe the lamen will be able to use this system sometime down the road.

WD

[Invallid]

Ahhh feel the love I didn't intend for this thread to turn into a drama fest, but such as the interwebs lol.

I have made alot of progress with the car over the last few days stipped some things down and made wiring neater in general,flexloom etc... I have my idle tune set (big accomplishment I know.) So now it isn't fouling out plugs at idle and sucking down gas. I found that I had several and I do mean several vacuum leaks in the process which weren't letting me get my idle down to a managable level. I find it interesting how forgiving the stock ecu was in comparision to the megatune when it comes to issues such as vacuum leaks and general lack of maintnance performed by the previous owner. Everything I have touched has been loose or screwed up in some manor... Im starting to work thru it all slowly and make sure it is right and ready to be beat on. lol.

[WDRacing]

Change your oil after you get the idle tune done. Lots of rich blow-bye gases will destroy your oil quick. During the tuning process I change my oil often...which is why I use chepo oil until after the tune is atleast decent.

Just a tip...

[Invallid]

Change your oil after you get the idle tune done. Lots of rich blow-bye gases will destroy your oil quick. During the tuning process I change my oil often...which is why I use chepo oil until after the tune is atleast decent.

Just a tip...

Yea I was actually thinking about that earlier,I'm sure it's a bit thin especially with how rich it was when I first got it to start... I burned thru a 1/4 tank of gas in about 30-45 mins of idling lol. It took me forever to get my base timing set, ve's tuned down, spark tables semi set. etc,etc.

[WDRacing]

Yeah, initial tuning is a b**** with almost anything. Fun when you get it right though.

[flynbyu82]

Ar

Yea I was actually thinking about that earlier,I'm sure it's a bit thin especially with how rich it was when I first got it to start... I burned thru a 1/4 tank of gas in about 30-45 mins of idling lol. It took me forever to get my base timing set, ve's tuned down, spark tables semi set. etc,etc.

Have you fooled around with the DSM dizzy? Do you know what year and model vehicles have the dizzys that are interchangeable with the KA?

Also, do you only need the single IAC? The FSM discusses three and I'm curious how you guys are adressing that...

WDRacing, no hard feelings. Not judging you; it just seems to often people jump to conclusions and blame their own short-comings on MS.

[WDRacing]

Ar

WDRacing, no hard feelings. Not judging you; it just seems to often people jump to conclusions and blame their own short-comings on MS.

No hard feelings at all bro

[SR24DET]

So I went to the junk yard and pulled a Ford EDIS system for $40. I am in the middle of my build (see CJ's build) and was planning on running MSII. I have read tons of threads and nothing has made me more worried then this one. I am starting to rethink my plans. I wanted a EMS that I could tune myself so when I make changes I dont have to send it out. I want to lean how to tune. I am a very mechanically savvy person, but have never done anything remotely related to tuneing. I wanted to run MSII for 2 reasons. 1 I mentioned b4, wanting to tune myself. The second is I wanted to simplify the wireing. I am rewireing my entire car. I am going to make a new fuse/relay box under my dashboard. I am elimenating all extra wiring. I thought MSII was a cheap, good way to go, but.... you guys are makeing me rethink things...

[WDRacing]

If you're rewiring the entire motor...MSII sounds like it will fit into your forte. It's just not for the la men IMO. It's not as easy as some people make it out to be, nor is as hard as some others say it is. People have been successfully running it for years.

But on a 1-10 rating scale when I look at things like drive-ability, reliability and customer support the MS only gets a 5.

Cheap isn't everything.

Have you looked at SDS? How about bikirom, calum and a couple other rom tuning options...Nistune also.

I'm all about presenting lots of viable options and figuring out whats best for each individual. I'm also very mechanically inclined, but I wouldn't use MS. I'm willing to admit that I don't have the patience to tune it or deal with all the BS. But that's just me...

WD

[Invallid]

Ar

Have you fooled around with the DSM dizzy? Do you know what year and model vehicles have the dizzys that are interchangeable with the KA?

Also, do you only need the single IAC? The FSM discusses three and I'm curious how you guys are adressing that...

WDRacing, no hard feelings. Not judging you; it just seems to often people jump to conclusions and blame their own short-comings on MS.

I haven't yet fooled with the Mitsu wheel, I found the compatibility listings while searching on this site. Apparently the 90-91 with the "green top" and optical dizzy are the correct ones. I will try to find a link and post it back.

I am currently using only 1 idle control valve, it is the thermo one that you just supply 12v to it and it does the rest, no programming nothing special. One is for the AC when it is switched on and the other is a fast idle from what I have gathered, Again I read about them on here and I will edit my post to direct you to those reads.

I know that your last comment was directed to WD, but I also believe that something like a MS II should work with out a problem in my car, assuming I get everything wired correctly and a proper signal to the ECU to let it know when it's time to fire. I have the wiring right but the stock CAS is clearly already a problem being as it starts to lose sync once you get it below about 1,000 RPMS. People with the mitsu cas don't generally have this issue and with the 24-1 it will almost never have issues.

EDIT:Here is a link to the discussion around the IAC parts, it tells you how to disassemble them test them clean etc. It basically told me what I needed to know as to which IAC options I was going to use.zerothread?id=251133

Im still looking for the CAS thread.


Modified by Invallid at 12:55 PM 7/13/2009

[Invallid]

So I went to the junk yard and pulled a Ford EDIS system for $40. I am in the middle of my build (see CJ's build) and was planning on running MSII. I have read tons of threads and nothing has made me more worried then this one. I am starting to rethink my plans. I wanted a EMS that I could tune myself so when I make changes I dont have to send it out. I want to lean how to tune. I am a very mechanically savvy person, but have never done anything remotely related to tuneing. I wanted to run MSII for 2 reasons. 1 I mentioned b4, wanting to tune myself. The second is I wanted to simplify the wireing. I am rewireing my entire car. I am going to make a new fuse/relay box under my dashboard. I am elimenating all extra wiring. I thought MSII was a cheap, good way to go, but.... you guys are makeing me rethink things...

What did the EDIS come off of?

This thread shouldn't scare you especially if you are planning to rewire everything, you only need a few connectors. I should have in all honest just trashed my factory wiring and ran ALL new wires directly to simplify the process, instead I'm kinda caught in the middle where I have already bypassed some of the stuff and things that I for some reason couldn't meter I just ran a new wire out and called it a day... I will likely just flexloom everything and leave it alone.

Aside from every thread in the world having different information as to the base cam angle and which CAS works for them it really isn't that bad. I could do another one in less then a day knowing what I know now. you could likely do it in exactly the same amount of time running all new wires. I understand completely if you take a path more traveled but I am going to ride this one out... worst case scenario I will swap over to a universal AEM in time being as how I have every wire already ran into the car and identified lol.

[WDRacing]

Guys that enjoy this type of thing are definitly an asset to NICO. Would you mind doing a write-up with pics? I can get it on the NICO homepage and also in the Tech Section.

[SR24DET]

What did the EDIS come off of?

The FORD EDIS-4 parts can be found on 1991-1995 FORD Escorts.

While doing alot of my MSII reading. I have read this a number of times.

http://www.nicoclub.com/articles.php?id=179898

It didnt seem to bad to me. Im not worried that I can't wire it up, I'm more worried that I wont make it run right. I have never dabbeled in tuneing and this will be a first. I love doing things myself. I also enjoy a challenge. I refuse to bring my car anywhere to have work done. While read about MSII, it didnt seem too bad. It seemed like Iwould wire it up. Then download the stock fuel maps and ignition chats. At this point I assumed it would idle fine and drive without boost fine. Then I would have to tune it to run with my turbo. As I read I am finding out that I would have to d!ck with it to get it just to run (without boost) fine. While I am not totally afraid, it has made me more nervus. I plan to rewire the entire car (engine... lights... everything). This is my race car so I am going to run the bare minimum. No extras. No radio. No AC or heat. I removed all the sensors off my intake mani. I blocked all the vacume ports. I blocked the EGR and the IVAC or whatever that sensor is back there. This will be hard at first, but once its all squared away, it will be easier to trouble shoot down the road. MSII interested me, because It seemed like I could run a few wires, and learn how to tune after that. Hummm..... lots to think about.

[Invallid]

Guys that enjoy this type of thing are definitly an asset to NICO. Would you mind doing a write-up with pics? I can get it on the NICO homepage and also in the Tech Section.

Just tell me what you want and I should be able to accommodate. I have taken a few pictures as the project matures... maybe there is an article you can site with a format that you want to have us follow. Unfortunately with the MSII there aren't a lot of "look how cool this looks" pictures its just some solder and butt connectors lol.

[Invallid]

The FORD EDIS-4 parts can be found on 1991-1995 FORD Escorts.

While doing alot of my MSII reading. I have read this a number of times.

http://www.nicoclub.com/articles.php?id=179898

It didnt seem to bad to me. Im not worried that I can't wire it up, I'm more worried that I wont make it run right. I have never dabbeled in tuneing and this will be a first. I love doing things myself. I also enjoy a challenge. I refuse to bring my car anywhere to have work done. While read about MSII, it didnt seem too bad. It seemed like Iwould wire it up. Then download the stock fuel maps and ignition chats. At this point I assumed it would idle fine and drive without boost fine. Then I would have to tune it to run with my turbo. As I read I am finding out that I would have to d!ck with it to get it just to run (without boost) fine. While I am not totally afraid, it has made me more nervus. I plan to rewire the entire car (engine... lights... everything). This is my race car so I am going to run the bare minimum. No extras. No radio. No AC or heat. I removed all the sensors off my intake mani. I blocked all the vacume ports. I blocked the EGR and the IVAC or whatever that sensor is back there. This will be hard at first, but once its all squared away, it will be easier to trouble shoot down the road. MSII interested me, because It seemed like I could run a few wires, and learn how to tune after that. Hummm..... lots to think about.

Thanks for the Link.

I think your thoughts are exactly in line with mine. If you want to wait a few more weeks I will be the guinea pig. I am already to far into this project to back out now. I have all of the components I need to get the car running in "stock" form and everything but an exhaust to do the turbo side of things, I am currently pulling thru intercooler piping ->intercooler ->piping ->air filter so I can drive the car before I boost it and make sure my idle settings and other basic preboost tunes are happy. I figure there is less risk of blowing it up with a turbo if I get it road tuned without. Once I am satisfied with how the car works I will bolt on the turbo,manifold, plug in the EGT make the connection from turbo elbow to the hotside pipe , put the WB 02 in its new home throw on a downpipe and fire it up, over all about a 1/2 a day process if that.

Good luck in whatever you do.
Modified by Invallid at 11:52 AM 7/13/2009

[SR24DET]

Thanks for the Link.

I think your thoughts are exactly in line with mine. If you want to wait a few more weeks I will be the guinea pig. I am already to far into this project to back out now. I have all of the components I need to get the car running in "stock" form and everything but an exhaust to do the turbo side of things, I am currently pulling thru intercooler piping ->intercooler ->piping ->air filter so I can drive the car before I boost it and make sure my idle settings and other basic preboost tunes are happy. I figure there is less risk of blowing it up with a turbo if I get it road tuned without. Once I am satisfied with how the car works I will bolt on the turbo,manifold, plug in the EGT make the connection from turbo elbow to the hotside pipe , put the WB 02 in its new home throw on a downpipe and fire it up, over all about a 1/2 a day process if that.

Good luck in whatever you do.

Interesting. I still have my engine out and I have alot to do b4 The MSII is gona be wired up. The engine is just about done, except I need to connect the timeing trigger to the crank pulley and I also need to make a bracket for the sensor to read the trigger. I need to put the shell back together and I am still doing a couple other things on the side. I will be checking this frequently to see how things go for you.

So your not gona mount the turbo right away? Your gona keep things stock and tune it that way first. Then put the turbo on later. Neat, makes sence. Good luck. Make updates

[Invallid]

Interesting. I still have my engine out and I have alot to do b4 The MSII is gona be wired up. The engine is just about done, except I need to connect the timeing trigger to the crank pulley and I also need to make a bracket for the sensor to read the trigger. I need to put the shell back together and I am still doing a couple other things on the side. I will be checking this frequently to see how things go for you.

So your not gona mount the turbo right away? Your gona keep things stock and tune it that way first. Then put the turbo on later. Neat, makes sence. Good luck. Make updates

Yep, everything is in place for the turbo except the turbo stuff essentially lol. Big injectors intercooler, piping, bov etc. I think because you are doing a crank trigger you should have no issues, as has been reported in this thread and others it is over all the CAS that causes issues. Take that out of the equation and you just have a motor... any motor 12 cylinders and under can run on a MS once it has proper trigger for spark/timing.

I will update as I go, reality is that I don't see any huge advantage to running a EDIS setup and I will likely keep my blaster 2 coil and just incorporate a MSD6A for a little hotter spark. both the stock coil and my MSD blaster tend to be a little on the orange side when driven directly off of the MS.

I will post more as time goes on and I come into different issues. Tonight I will try and build a tach driver. a it turns out you have to have one unless you are using a EDIS system. I found a diagram here for anyone else that reads this thread.:

http://www.msextra.com/manuals...o.GIF

I can build a tach driver for about 5 bucks instead of ordering a dakota digital one for ~75

[WDRacing]

Just tell me what you want and I should be able to accommodate. I have taken a few pictures as the project matures... maybe there is an article you can site with a format that you want to have us follow. Unfortunately with the MSII there aren't a lot of "look how cool this looks" pictures its just some solder and butt connectors lol.

http://www.nicoclub.com/articl...shtml

Here's an article I wrote on alcohol injection. Anything like that...We also have guys to assist with the writing if you need it. So long as you don't mind others editing your write-up. Pics of running certain wires, what sensors are what, where did you get the MSII setup etc. All the way through to tuning. We can even make it more then one part and do a series of write-ups.

Project MegaSquirt has a nice ring to it. I'm more then willing to help with whatever. Hosting pics, writing, editing etc. Just let me know what you need and I can get the resources to assist.

A really complete start to finish MSII article would be awsome dude. Home Page material for sure. If you're interested I'll drop a line to Greg (AZHitman) and see if he has any suggestions.

WD

[Invallid]

http://www.nicoclub.com/articl...shtml

Here's an article I wrote on alcohol injection. Anything like that...We also have guys to assist with the writing if you need it. So long as you don't mind others editing your write-up. Pics of running certain wires, what sensors are what, where did you get the MSII setup etc. All the way through to tuning. We can even make it more then one part and do a series of write-ups.

Project MegaSquirt has a nice ring to it. I'm more then willing to help with whatever. Hosting pics, writing, editing etc. Just let me know what you need and I can get the resources to assist.

A really complete start to finish MSII article would be awsome dude. Home Page material for sure. If you're interested I'll drop a line to Greg (AZHitman) and see if he has any suggestions.

WD

Good information, unfortunatly I don't know that I would be the ideal canidate to do the write up being as how my wiring is about ~90% done... I don't want to pull everything back apart to do a proper write up.. besides a lot of my stuff has been trial and error with the idea of "oh this will work" and then in the end I end up doing it a different way because I find that something else works better...

For example, I tried to put in the mitsu dizzy disc yesterday, got it in everything worked before it was installed then it wouldn't start even after messing with the input trigger settings. I am currently looking for some instructions, maybe I need to use a different wire maybe there is something in the settings I'm missing in megatune... maybe it was...? no proper documentation makes this stuff a real bish. I know how to use google and search on several different sites but when the information isn't there or it is hidden in some crazy wording its hard to find so things that should take literally 10 mins end up taking 2 days. Anyhow, if anyone has any information on this process let me know.

[WDRacing]

I see a new wiring harness and a FMU in your future

[Invallid]

I see a new wiring harness and a FMU in your future

LOL, what would I do with out the support of people like you.