KA24DE Shuts off randomly then won't start

[EastTN240]

I searched, but none of the threads I'm finding are identical to my problem. As of right now my car is stranded on an off ramp.

1993 240SX Vert with bone stock engine

I'll be driving in town or cruising down the interstate and poof, the revs drop to "0" and it's off. I'll pull over and it will turn over but won't start. I've replaced the fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel injectors, plugs, plug wires, and dizzy and I STILL have this happen. It will start after letting it sit for 10+ min. usually, but last night left me high and dry and I got a ride home from a TN State Trooper. All help appreciated, I can't figure this out.

[drksolest]

tear in a hose? that's what mine was doin... too much O2

[EastTN240]

tear in a hose? that's what mine was doin... too much O2

The hose off the top of the valve cover has a small tear in it.........I wanted to replace it and the guy at the parts place told me not to worry about it right now........LOL! It'd be great if that's why......which hose was torn on yours?

[drksolest]

HAHAHAHA THAT WAS SAME AS MINE! i changed it up n' it solved the problem

[EastTN240]

HAHAHAHA THAT WAS SAME AS MINE! i changed it up n' it solved the problem

LMAO!!! I'm gonna go do that then...........and then drive over and smack that guy at the parts store

Thx! I'll let you know if that gets it

[drksolest]

if not maybe the idle control valve... that's what i thought was wrong with my car till i found the tear.

[EastTN240]

if not maybe the idle control valve... that's what i thought was wrong with my car till i found the tear.

I thought IAC personally since I had that issue with my old VW, but we'll see. I replaced the hose and drove it home with no issues.......if this solves it I owe you a beer sometime

[drksolest]

let me know!!

[EastTN240]

let me know!!

Well..........that wasn't it.......we made it home fine, got some stuff done around the house for like half an hour.........go out to the car and turn the key and it won't start. Turns over fine again, but doesn't fire up. Hmmmmmmmm....anyone?

[qat727]

I know you said you replaced the fuel pump, but have you checked to see if it's actually running? Lately, my car has developed a problem that the fuel pump doesn't prime when I try to start the car. Hondas are notorious for losing the main relay that controls the fuel pump. I wouldn't put it past Nissan to have a similar problem.

[EastTN240]

I know you said you replaced the fuel pump, but have you checked to see if it's actually running? Lately, my car has developed a problem that the fuel pump doesn't prime when I try to start the car. Hondas are notorious for losing the main relay that controls the fuel pump. I wouldn't put it past Nissan to have a similar problem.

I can hear it priming, but maybe I should pull the line and see if it's spraying.....like I said though, sometimes it runs fine and other times it just dies or won't start for no apparent reason.

[qat727]

I can hear it priming, but maybe I should pull the line and see if it's spraying.....like I said though, sometimes it runs fine and other times it just dies or won't start for no apparent reason.

I tried IM'ing you about it, but it looks like you aren't signed on. It sounds stupid, but if it won't start, then it's either not getting air, fuel, spark, compression, or timing.

If it normally runs fine, but randomly dies and won't restart, you can pretty safely eliminate compression. I had a KA that liked to jump time and ultimately blew up on me. However, I had to manually reset the timing before it would restart. If the timing hasn't jumped, then you can eliminate that.

If you can pull the fuel rail away from the manifold, you can check for fuel spray when it isn't starting.

Christina brought up an interesting point. It could be your IACV. However, if it is, it should still start right up if you press on the accelerator to let some air go in. Air coming in from behind the MAF will screw with the sensors and might make it die. That's not too hard to check for though.

You might want to check your spark. It's possible you've got a coil that is crapping out.

Personally, my bet would be on fuel or spark. Either it's something simple (dying coil, fuel pump relay, etc.) or there might be some sensor causing the computer to cut the signal to the injectors or the coil.

P.S. Although there aren't a huge number of us, it looks like only the TN people have touched on this thread.

[ShaunakaRichard]

In my experience the easiest way to tell if its spark or fuel is the manner in which the car dies. If your driving or the motor is running, if it does instantly, rpms instantly drop its spark. If its fuel the rpms would slowly drop as it looses more and more fuel pressure. Or when your cranking it over and it won't start. Do that then take a spark plug out and see if its wet, if it is your getting fuel. Another way is to take a spark plug out. Hook the wire to it, then touch the threads on the spark plug to a ground and have a friend crank the car. You should be able to see the spark plug spark. I've ran into many fuel and spark problems on a number of cars and normally doing these things will point you in the right direction.

[EastTN240]

In my experience the easiest way to tell if its spark or fuel is the manner in which the car dies. If your driving or the motor is running, if it does instantly, rpms instantly drop its spark. If its fuel the rpms would slowly drop as it looses more and more fuel pressure. Or when your cranking it over and it won't start. Do that then take a spark plug out and see if its wet, if it is your getting fuel. Another way is to take a spark plug out. Hook the wire to it, then touch the threads on the spark plug to a ground and have a friend crank the car. You should be able to see the spark plug spark. I've ran into many fuel and spark problems on a number of cars and normally doing these things will point you in the right direction.

Just by that, it's spark...........it dies instantly and the revs drop extremely quick to 0..........no warning and it's already dead. I was assuming I wasn't getting spark since you hear it prime and can smell gas when it floods and it turns over and over but won't fire..........

[ShaunakaRichard]

Then I'd replace/check the basics: cap, rotor, wires and coil.

[EastTN240]

Then I'd replace/check the basics: cap, rotor, wires and coil.

I've got a new cap, new dizzy, and new wires already...........I'm guessing coil then.......

[drksolest]

Well damn, no beer fo me. Hope you figure it out!

Hey Mathew, hope you r doing k... I haven't called cause i lost my phone last weekend (ya again) so call me when u get a chance. (new phone, no numbers)

[EastTN240]

Well damn, no beer fo me. Hope you figure it out!

Hey Mathew, hope you r doing k... I haven't called cause i lost my phone last weekend (ya again) so call me when u get a chance. (new phone, no numbers)

I'll still get ya one next time I'm in Knoxville or if you are ever in the JC area...........just cus you motivated me to change that damn hose

I just went and got a new coil.............and let me be the first to say "DAMN THAT'S EXPENSIVE" along with all the other little parts that add up fast as hell.......another $100+ out the door.........had I not gotten the car for such a bargain I'd already be in buyer's remorse, but alas.......I love her, everytime I get behind the wheel(and she doesn't shut off) I get excited like I did the first time I ever drove a car that could actually handle fairly decent

[omgjacki]

Here's an obvious question... is there any gas in the tank?

[EastTN240]

Here's an obvious question... is there any gas in the tank?

Yup, full tank.

[qat727]

I'll still get ya one next time I'm in Knoxville or if you are ever in the JC area...........just cus you motivated me to change that damn hose

I just went and got a new coil.............and let me be the first to say "DAMN THAT'S EXPENSIVE" along with all the other little parts that add up fast as hell.......another $100+ out the door.........had I not gotten the car for such a bargain I'd already be in buyer's remorse, but alas.......I love her, everytime I get behind the wheel(and she doesn't shut off) I get excited like I did the first time I ever drove a car that could actually handle fairly decent

If you make it down to Knox, I'd like to drive out and see that vert. Then again, I might be headed toward JC/Boone after a while.

I kinda feel bad for you about the cost. If you were closer, I've got some extra parts I could have slapped on to check it.

[EastTN240]

If you make it down to Knox, I'd like to drive out and see that vert. Then again, I might be headed toward JC/Boone after a while.

I kinda feel bad for you about the cost. If you were closer, I've got some extra parts I could have slapped on to check it.

I appreciate that! I swapped out the coil and guess what.............a day so far of trouble free driving

Let's see if it holds true! I think she may be better off now If it fully checks out, I'm road tripping to Memphis and back next week maybe to get the 5spd conversion I picked up. If so, maybe I can bring it down to Knoxville and get some help at someone's place doing the swap...........it would be a first for me

[qat727]

I appreciate that! I swapped out the coil and guess what.............a day so far of trouble free driving

Let's see if it holds true! I think she may be better off now If it fully checks out, I'm road tripping to Memphis and back next week maybe to get the 5spd conversion I picked up. If so, maybe I can bring it down to Knoxville and get some help at someone's place doing the swap...........it would be a first for me

I'm glad to hear it's working thus far. Hopefully that took care of it.

Memphis is one hell of a drive for a S13 5 speed swap unless you got a killer deal. Either way, I'd probably be down for helping out with the swap, depending on when you'd be doing it. Might even be able to use my driveway if I can get a car or two fixed and moving

[Zoom45]

I have a 92 vert with the same problem. Mine may run perfect for 1000 miles then quit. Usually it will start up after letting it sit a day or two. It may run rough but will clear out and be ok. The last time it quit it won't start now. Turns over fine. Have good spark, fuel pumps out the line, injectors ohm out and click when it does run. I found a good computer and tried that but no change. Any ideas? Zoom45

[EastTN240]

I'm glad to hear it's working thus far. Hopefully that took care of it.

Memphis is one hell of a drive for a S13 5 speed swap unless you got a killer deal. Either way, I'd probably be down for helping out with the swap, depending on when you'd be doing it. Might even be able to use my driveway if I can get a car or two fixed and moving

I'll probably take you up on that bro! BUT.......it crapped out again........and left me stranded AGAIN! Some guy stopped and helped me with it, but he was under the impression it was the coil.......which I replaced yesterday......and still that brings me back to the question of why it's fine when I let it sit.......we have narrowed it down to the coil or anything before the coil on the harness.......could it be a bad ground? If so, pics of where I should check if you have 'em. Thanks for all the help guys/gals, this is just killin me though

[Zoom45]

Sounds like yours is doing exactly what mine is. I have been asking questions on here about it for months but no one seems to have the right answer. I took it to a dealer and they said they would just start replacing parts (computer and all the sensors). I put another computer off a running car and it didn't help. If anyone wants it I'll take $2,000 for it. It might crank and run fine for a month and it may not crank. Never can tell. When it does run it runs like new. It must be an electronic sensor or something but I can't go keep buying $100 or more for parts you don't know will fix it. It's a 92 240SX SE limited edition, automatic convertible, white with black top and gray interior. Great shape just has this weird problem. Zoom45

[qat727]

Honestly, if my car were doing this, I wouldn't keep replacing parts. I'd check the grounds next.

I looked all through my service manual and the wiring diagrams. It looks like all the stuff for the ignition system goes through 2 grounds, F10 and F20.

F10 is toward the back of the engine, and it looks like it comes out of the same loom as the EGR and SCV solenoid plugs. FYI, those both are bolted to a vacuum manifold on the back of the head next to the firewall.

F20 is near the injectors. It looks like it comes out of the injector harness loom and bolts to the intake.

For what it's worth, I'd take both those loose and clean them really well. If you feel like digging the ECU out, I can get the pin #'s for everything in the ignition system so you can do a continuity check on the wires.

With as intermittent as the problem is, I'd lean toward wiring issues. If you're good with a multimeter, there are ways of checking just about everything on the car.

As an aside request for either of you with the problem if you're able to do it: The next time the car won't start back up, pull the distributor out and put the ignition in the run position. Disconnect the coil harness and spin the drive gear on the distributor and see if the injectors click. If they do, then plug the coil back in and pull the 10A fuel pump relay fuse. (I think it's the middle one in the bank of 3 in the underhood box.) Either use a neon tube spark checker (If you've got on) or an old plug grounded to the engine and see if it sparks while you're spinning the distributor.

If you're able to do the electrical checking, I'll provide any of the pinouts and locations my FSM's have. If you were closer, I'd throw in a hand.
Modified by qat727 at 6:48 PM 11/8/2008

[Zoom45]

This is the best reply I have had on this subject. Thanks I'll try those things.My ECU number is A11-C03 G61 2417 and it has a big green number 81 on it. I bought another one that came from a running 1993 with an automatic that has a big green EQ on it. It didn't make a difference. My car usually would crank the next day after it quit. It usually would try to run (spit and sputter bad) then it would clear up. Now it just spins over and doesn't sound like it wants to crank. It is getting spark. I stuck a screwdriver in the end of the wire and had my wife spin it over. It sparks bright blue but only if you almost touch a ground. It doesn't jump far. All plugs are getting spark. It is getting fuel pressure. I pulled the line off to the injectors and it will fill a bottle quick when you turn the ignition on. Thanks,Zoom45

[Zoom45]

I just noticed something new. If I turn the ignition on and push the gas pedal I hear a buzzing noise from behind the head. If I push the pedal toward wide open the sound eases up and quits at wide open. What is making this noise? It sounds like it's coming from behind the head but I can't get my hand back there to feel for it. There are two ground wires on the back drivers side of the head. They are good shape and tight. I did not see another ground by the injector harness on the intake.Zoom45

[qat727]

I wish I still had my coupe around here so I could try to look at it and see what might be the problem. All I've got left is my hatch that I bypassed and removed A LOT of this stuff on.

Regardless, let me take a look around my car and see what might be causing the noise.