KA24DE Shuts off randomly then won't start

[EastTN240]

Well hell..........I don't know why I didn't trust my gut in the first place......but......I had at one point (before doing the new coil anyways) thought that the Viper alarm installed before i got it (but told it didn't work) could possibly somehow be using the ignition disable thing to kill the car........I mean hell it would explain the sudden loss of power to the coil and why it would work later after sitting, so today......and excuse the phone pics, but I decided to pull all this crap outta the car:



I still have to finish hooking up the wires and such, but I had to head to work (where I am now) and didn't want to rush anything. It's been an eventful day though and I'm feeling confident that this WILL fix it

[qat727]

I'm glad to see you found it and got it out. Let me know how it goes.

To Zoom45: I'm sorry I haven't had a chance to get out and check my car yet. Things have been really hectic and it's been raining on and off for the past 3 or 4 days.

I did get to thinking about what you'd said, though. The noise you're describing could be coming from one of the vacuum solenoids, or it could be transferring from the IACV solenoid. If you can, use an extension or something to act as a hearing rod of sorts to see if you can identify what the sound is coming from. There are two solenoids behind the head, one for the SCV the other for the EGR. The IACV solenoid is on top of the bottom intake runner at the back.

As for the grounds, just because they're tight doesn't mean they're clean. It can't hurt to make sure they aren't corroded underneath. It's unlikely, but not unheard of.

BTW... You don't have an alarm, do you? LOL

[EastTN240]

So I finished the wiring and it fired right up..........rode down the street fine, but unfortunately........(not my day) I picked up a nail in the tire. I took the wheel/tire down to a shop to get patched and now it's back on the car. I'm driving it to work tonight (about a 35 mile round trip) and that will be the test. I have faith this fixed it

[EastTN240]

So after a tad over 100 worry free miles..........I was at a wheel/tire place getting my tires balanced today and when they went to take it off the lift it cut off again as soon as he put it in reverse.......same problem as before, the coil was getting NO POWER..........any ideas on why my coil would lose power? New coil btw. I would really NOT like to redo the whole wiring harness.

[qat727]

That sucks, man. The first thing that came to mind was a problem my car has been giving me that if you turn the ignition on but do not start the car, the idiot lights stay on until you put the car to reverse. I never could figure out why it does it, but my car is a 5 speed.

I looked back over all the diagrams again. The only thing I can find that might cause it would be loose wiring in the coil circuit or the ECU. I'm not sure if the ECU has some sort of programming to kill voltage to the coil under certain circumstances. I know there are fuel pump shutdown circuits. I haven't seen any documentation of an ignition shutdown circuit on these cars, but it's possible the ECU is causing the problem.

Another possibility is a partially broken wire in the ignition circuit. If it was in contact most of the time, but under certain vibrations came loose, it could cause it. The only problem with these ideas is that they're difficult if not impossible to test for. I hate to say it, but you might have to rip the car apart and start working on the harness.

[EastTN240]

Well hell.........I guess I should start looking for a wiring harness.........

[qat727]

Let me know if you find a good one. I've yet to meet a Nissan without some kind of wiring problem.

[EastTennBimmin]

Hey I'm in Blountville and just last night had this same problem...Cleaned up some wiring did the hot cam swap and hooked up my CD player car made it outta the garage and about a tenth a mile down the road and just quit...haven't gotten to look at it 2day but let me know if you figure anything out and I'll do the same...

PS-I'd like to see this clean vert
Modified by EastTennBimmin at 2:18 PM 11/20/2008

[Zoom45]

Mine still won't crank. My plugs are real wet with fuel and it's getting good blue spark. Could it be getting too much fuel and if so why? It's all stock S-13 with automatic. Runs like a new one when it does crank. Zoom45

[qat727]

It's possible that it's flooding out and fouling the plugs. Then again, that's usually a function of a lack of ignition more than too much fuel. What you can do is disconnect the wires from the injectors once the plugs are wet to see if it fires at all.

Have you verified that the engine is in time? Have you tried ether?

[Zoom45]

Yes to all but doing the either. I even put on another ECU and MAF but no change. It's a shame because when it cranks it will run like a new car. I even traced all the wiring and can't find anything wrong. I plan on putting it on Ebay and take what I can get for it. I give up.

Only other thing I can think of is rip all the computer stuff off and install a carburetor.Zoom45

[Zoom45]

I think I found the problem. It's running now but I have a new problem. My distributor cap had the carbon tip missing and it had started burning a hole in the rotor so I guess it made the fire jump around in the distributor throwing the timing off. I put a new one on and it cranked right up. My new problem is I guess with trying to crank it for days must have washed the rings down with gas. Now when it cranks, it will run great but after a minute it will foul the plugs on #1 & 4 cylinders and start missing and smoking out the exhaust. If I change the plugs it runs great again and does not smoke but if I let it idle, it will foul them again and smoke bad. Is there somthing I can put in it to make the rings seal or is the only fix new rings. Zoom45

[qat727]

I'm glad you found the source of the problem. I would suggest doing a leakdown test to see if your rings are in fact bad.

I find it more likely that an ignition problem is causing the fouling than the rings. While the engine is rotating, oil is moving, so it is unlikely that you have damaged your cylinders or rings. If you did, it wouldn't run well at all, not just at idle. It may be that those two injectors are stuck open and are dumping fuel in all the time.

Pulling the fuel rail off a small distance from the manifold so you can see the spray should tell you a lot more about your problem.

[Zoom45]

Found the problem. All the trouble was a bad distributor cap and rotor. The cap carbon ball in top had fell out or broke apart causing it to randomly work. It would run great for a while then quit. I guess when it ran enough to get hot, the metal on the rotor would expand and lose contact with the spot where the carbon ball rotated on it. All the time I was trying to crank the car to get it started it must have dumped a lot of fuel in the cylinders (I tried for days to get it to crank). It would run the battery down, I would charge it and do it again. This over time kept dumping fuel in it which washed the cylinders down and leaked to the oil pan. This thinned my oil so it had no viscosity. I changed the oil and filter (it was like thin liquid). I also added a can of engine restore with the oil. I changed the plugs again and now it runs like new and doesn't smoke. It had so much gas in the pan it lost lubrication once I finally got it running. After changing the oil it quit smoking and runs so smooth you can't hear it run at idle. Someone could have had this car very cheap this morning because I was putting it on Ebay today if I didn't get it running by noon today. It's amazing the trouble $20 dollars worth of parts can cause.Thanks for everyones help! Zoom45

[qat727]

Really glad you got it fixed cheap. Mine just died today. I've determined the fuel pump isn't cutting on. Hopefully I'll get enough time to diagnose it properly and fix it.

[garlendrix]

i had a 91 blazer that would do that. turned out to be the engine temp sensor does anyone know why my 91 ka24de won't start period? its got good spark and good gas. when i got it the guy had the timing all outta wack but i set all of it to the book. and it doesnt even come close to starting, it'll turn all day long but won't kick over. please help me out!

[qat727]

i had a 91 blazer that would do that. turned out to be the engine temp sensor does anyone know why my 91 ka24de won't start period? its got good spark and good gas. when i got it the guy had the timing all outta wack but i set all of it to the book. and it doesnt even come close to starting, it'll turn all day long but won't kick over. please help me out!

Well, judging by what Zoom45 had happen, have you checked your dizzy cap and rotor to verify they are in working order?

Are you sure you got the timing right? You've got to make sure the cams are right, and the dizzy is right as well. If you've got good spark and gas, then timing is the most likely culprit.

[TonkaTruckin]

yep.. I am having the same problem in my 92 vert as Zoom45 did. So I will check as well and see if I have the vacuum hose problem, cap and rotor problem, or timing problem...

[natedog7543]

man, this is a long thread did you try replacing your ignition control module? if you haven't, pull it out and have it tested. my car was doing the same thing until i changed it. the icm was overheating.

[TonkaTruckin]

Well in what little I could bring myself to do in 6 degree weather with no garage I found out that my dizzy cap is burnt to crap and I am sure it has never been replaced... so off to get new cap, rotor, plugs, and wires (if not the problem just for the sake of proper maintenance) Thank goodness I have a dealership account at napa. Does that sound alright or does anyone else have a better idea of where to buy parts from?

[TonkaTruckin]

Alright.. so there i was. Bored at work and siting next to a computer and it donned on me.... why don't I just check the Technical Service Bulletins! what a dummy. I feel dumb for not thinking of this first. But that is what you get for working on cars all day.. common since sometimes goes out the window.

So here it is.. word for word. So it is not my problem if it doesn't help anyone.

Date: April 17, 1996ENGINE CRANKS, BUT WILL NOT START OR IS HARD TO STARTService Information: This bulletin has been developed to address complaints of an engine which cranks over normally, but is difficult to start or will not start at all.

Service Procedure: *Connect CONSULT. If the vehicle you are working with is not CONSULT compatible, connect a tachometer (digital readout if possible).*Start the engine (the accelerator may have to be opened and/or the the fuel pump fuse removed during cranking to get the engine to start), and warm it to operating temperature.*Run the engine at 2000 rpm (no load) for two minutes. Then shut the engine off.*Check the oil level and correct as necessary (between the "L" and "H" marks on the dipstick). If the oil level is overfull and has a gasoline odor, change the oil and filter before performing this procedure. If the crankcase is over full with oil, idle speed adjustment may be affected.*Disconnect the throttle position sensor (TPS) connector. Now re-start the engine.*Rev the engine 2-3 times to 2000-3000 rpm, then allow it to idle (all accessories "off").*Check the ignition timing with a timing light and adjust it to specification (if necessary).*If the vehicle is not CONSULT compatible, monitor the idle speed using the tachometer connected in step 1. If using CONSULT, perform the following procedure: Monitor the idle speed (CMPS.RPM) on the CONSULT screen.*Check the idle rpm and adjust to specification (if necessary) using the screw on the IACV-AAC valve.*Turn engine off, and re-connect the TPS.

So there you go.. I myself have not done it yet but i look forward to giving it a shot when i get the chance..

[ablecine]

ive been reading along with this thread. very similar problem with my 92 stock 240. when i start it will run like a champ but totally shuts off randomly. not fuel supply prob, totally electric. heres the kicker, if i can get the temp up up halfwaly between "h" and "c" it will run all day. any ideas? some sort of temperature sensor?

[casper980]

Hope your right about the Distributer Cap and Rotor...I was/am having the same problem with my 91 240sx HB, I just changed them hope it works!