Just started the rebuilt KAT (problems of course)

Post by **koukiKA240** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 2:58 pm

I finnaly got around to turning over the KA-T. After taking more than 10 minutes to prime the oil pump and lines and figuring out that my coil had gone bad(luckily had an extra), we got it to run.

It SPEWS black smoke. The thick S**T. It wont idle. I have to stay on the throttle at 1k rpms to get it to stay alive.It shakes the car pretty good at idle.I went in the safc and went into Hi and Lo throttle fuel settings and set em at -50% and it still spews smoke and idles rough

My setup is as follows:SAFCIIAVCRmsd 50# injectors and JGY fuel rail

Right now my only option is to take it to SGP here in houston becuase i dont know how to run the AVCR and SAFC. They can tune it and build the custom part of the downpipe i need as well.Thanks,~Sam

Post by **kamikazestorm420** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:02 pm

i heard that with the s-afc you will only be able to use 50% bigger injectors. or something like that.

Post by **Redline240** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:35 pm

I think 50lbs/hr injectors are bigger than 550cc's...i think, lol...who knows the formula to convert lbs/hr to cc's?

Redline

Post by **klattr1** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 3:53 pm

they are 525cc.

Post by **Altiman94** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:18 pm

Did you check and re-check your timing?

Post by **574-240sx** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:42 pm

Sounds like you are running very rich maye even a little oil. You might be able leaning it out a little with the dec air settings.

Post by **koukiKA240** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 4:59 pm

Im not running any oil, im almost certain about that. The injector size is fine. 550cc injectors are pretty much maxing out the safcI took the valve cover off and made sure the #1 was at TDC and valves were closed.

Post by **nonchalant rage** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:38 pm

what cams are you running? if you WOT it, does the engine respond accordingly?

Post by **Structure240sx** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:18 am

are you running the stock maf? do you have the hotwire settings right on the safc? go into settings - sensor type- hotwire - 5in 5out.

forumla to change lbs/min to cc/min is:cc/min divided by 10.50 = lbs/min

also as mentioned the dec. air settings have alot to do with idle. try a setting like1.01.01.0 also recheck your timing. you dont have to pull the valve cover. set the engine at TDC via the timing mark ont he pulley, 2nd in from the right. set the dist. marks on the shaft ( shaft pin with mark near it gets lined up with the mark on the silve housing on the dist. shaft) whn you insert it do it very gently til it slides in part way without effort then push it in. it you try to forced it in right away it can turn and you can be a tooth off.

Post by **koukiKA240** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:45 am

when messing with the dist ive been as much as 180 degrees off and as little as 1 tooth off. But i beleive the timming is correct now but who knows.

I am running the 300zx maf. In my last post structure you told me to run 2 in 5 out and my dec air settings are at 2.0 .7 and 2.0

Is there somewhere in the SAFC t hat i have to tell it what size injectors i have?Thanks,~Sam

Post by **Structure240sx** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 12:02 pm

try settings 1in/6out then 2in/6out 2in 5out works for some people that get an n62 z maf. then there supposivly is a n61 maf that needs different settings. i must have the n61 becuase i use settings 1in 6 out when techniqually it should be 2in 5out2 = z32 maf 5 = 240 maffor some reason though 1in 6 out works for me. 2in 5 out and my car will not run

you dont tell the safc what size injectors you have but you do trim down the injectors like you already have to -50%.

Post by **koukiKA240** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:03 am

My Dad twisted my arm and made me tow the car to the shop that built the engine. They said that it sounds like the SAFC wasnt recignizing the MAF or injectors. They said that i would need a JWT reprogrammed ecu in order for it to run with the injectors and 300zx MAF

This came as a surprise to me. Its been my understanding since i started saving up for and working on this project this time last year, that a SAFC will run MSD 50# injectors and would take the 300zx MAF signal and make it something my ecu could recignize.

Now im at the somewhat end of my project and deff out of money. A JWT ecu is 550. Far more than i have at this moment. Is what the shop is telling me correct? Am i screwed? Granted they have not really taken the time to look at my car so nothing is set in stone as of yet but what do you think of the prognosis?Thanks,~Sam

Post by **Structure240sx** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:06 am

thats complete garbage. i running the safc on the stock ecu with z32 maf and 480cc injectors.

did you try the 1in 6out settings?

before i said to go intot he setting menu, i meant the ETC. menu. then select hotwire then set the in out settings. unless your injectors are the wrong impedence there is no reason why you cant use the safc

Post by **fiznat** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:15 am

Does "not recgonizing the injectors" mean "the S-AFC is hooked up wrong?" sounds like it to me. If you mess with the AFC, does it make any visible changes in the car's behavior at all?

Post by **koukiKA240** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:36 am

yes. While the engine was running i leaned it out to -50% and it idled a little more smooth but by no means smooth.

Post by **koukiKA240** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:45 am

no i couldnt convince my dad to let me start it and play with it more, he i s afraid that the extra rich setting will glaze the cylinders.

Im 19 and i just started college. this car engine has been a dream for me for the last 4 years i have owned it. But as you can tell my dad still feals the need to make some of my decisions for me. It just sucks that im having to pay some1 else to finish my project.~Sam

Post by **fiznat** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:16 am

Glaze the cyls? Never heard of that.. I would worry about fouling plugs though...

Post by **koukiKA240** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:37 am

does the same thing as fouling the plugs but all over the combustion chamber.~Sam

Post by **SHIEF** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:42 pm

I agree with Structure...you shouldn't need a JWT ecu to make that thing run, I'd tell the shop to figure something else out.

Speaking of....hey Structure...can you get me a pic of the back of your turbo, so I can see what you did with the exhaust coming off the back of the housing? email is [email protected] for the jack...back on topic

Post by **Structure240sx** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:27 pm

i gurantee its the hotwire in/out settings.

Post by **toki** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:26 pm

Did we all miss that this engine was rebuilt? A rebuilt engine will ALWAYS smoke when you start it, the rings need to seat to the walls of the cylinder, meaning you need to go out and drive it and put it under a little load. A LITTLE. Meaning don't wrap it out for the first 500 miles atleast.

Post by **WDRacing** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:14 pm

Not all engines smoke...the rings should still hold compression, just not as much as when they are seated.

What color is the smoke? Whats is the fuel pressure set at. Don't guess with timing, get it set 100% correct, you can't tune otherwise.

With the SAFC set to trim 50% at idle you should be fine...no dark colored smoke(black) is for fuel in case you didn't know. White is water and blue is oil.

When you say a shop rebuilt the motor, what exactly did they do? Who put the head together, is the TPS set correctly? Are your grounds all clean?

Post by **koukiKA240** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:00 pm

Its running rich. The smoke is Black, it smells rich. The motor has a brand new nissan crann, pauter connecting rods. CP 9.1:1 forged pistons and the bottom end has been completely balanced.

The head has JWT cams, JWT springs/retainers and JWT timing sprockets. All Grounds are clean.

As far as the Throttle Position Sensor, im not sure. It does recignize my throttle position as 0.0% when closed and 100% when open and everything in between is correct.

I do believe the IN/Out settings are wrong. The car is outta my hands now and im in school so i cant make the hr and a half drive to the shop to test out the 1/6 setting.

I spoke to the shop today. They tell me that they can get the car to run right off of the SAFC and get me down the road.BUT they informme that with the MSD 50# injectors the Walbro Fuel pump and Z32 MAF it is too much for the SAFC to handle efficiently. They tell me that because ive gone in and built the engine and have all the extra fuel delivery i can have a more streetable higher HP engine with the JWT ECU.

They want $550 to send the ecu to Jim Wolf.Is that price good?What are your thoughts on their final diagnosis?

They promise it will run great with the new ECU. They are a trusted shop here in houston and have been around for a long time.

P.S. as far as the timing. The dist is set correct and the timing is at stock (20degrees plus)Thanks for all the help,~Sam

Post by **WDRacing** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:43 pm

I'm gonna link my buddy from that area to this thread, maybe he can shed some light on the shops good/bad abilities. Whats the name of the shop???

The SAFC can trim the injectors down enough to idle. EVevn if you were idling at 11/1 or 10/1 it would be alot more stable then you describe.

It almost sounds like your cams are off a tooth.

Post by **SHIEF** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:11 pm

I was always under the impression that the SAFC could handle 50lb injectors, Z32 maf, and the 255. This is what I have setup so far, is this wrong now?

Post by **WDRacing** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:14 pm

Nope, it should work fine, since the SAFC can trrim down injectors up to twice the size of stock. Its either programmed wrong or the engine is put together wrong.

Post by **Structure240sx** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:19 pm

very tru the car will idle very smooth at 10 afr's. once again im running a walbro 255, z32 and 480cc injectors. i can idle perfectly at -35%, jsut takes the ecu a couple seconds to adjust and idle right. so the 50# (525cc) would be no problem. once again it must be the settings or possibly like WD said a cam could be off

Post by **Nismo_Freak** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 7:25 pm

Is the shop Lightspeed by chance?

BTW, if you want to save some cash pick up your ECU and mail it to JWT... I'll get the ECU tuned for you for $485 rather than the $550 they want to charge you. That'll save you $65 that you can put towards something else.

Just gimme a call tomorrow if you'd like to set that up.

1-866-SPL-PART

Post by **koukiKA240** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:19 am

the shop is SGP racing on veterans memorial. The ECU was sent out yesterday so too late. Sorry i apreciate the effort.

Im afriad I no longer have a say now in what happens to MY car. SGP doesnt beleive that the safc will run the setup i have, so neither does my dad.

The fact that you guys have helped me through a lot more problems than this, means nothing to my dad. He claims SGP knows better. The way i feel is SGP wants my money since i didnt pay to have them install the new engine ect, they missed out on a lot of cash because i did it myself. I think they are a little less likely to put forth the extra effort to make sure thier diagnosis is correct. because if it isnt, then the money comes outta my pocket for the time they spend "fixing" the problem. I just have a hard time trusting other shops to do the work i can do.Thanks again for the support.~Sam

P.S. As for the cam being off. I was present when the timing chains were put on and we consulted the Shop manuel for proper placement. As for the exact placement i dont know the engine was finished being built 5 months ago.

Post by **Structure240sx** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:41 am

thats a great deal you offer nismofreak

have they worked with the safc before? just a shame that a couple buttons and you could be running. now your out a couple more weeks and some more cash

Just started the rebuilt KAT (problems of course)

Just started the rebuilt KAT (problems of course)

Re: (Altiman94)

Re: (koukiKA240)

Re: (koukiKA240)

Re: (WDRacing)

Re: (Structure240sx)

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