JiffyLube effectiveness

[IanW]

Is there any way to get a thorough de-sludging and general oil system clean-out by having a JiffyLube oil change? We've just bought a '95 Q45 and, after reading NICO forums on the need to keep the oil system really clean, we are not convinced that what we've had done so far - a JiffyLube Signature Service plus Slick50 Oil System Cleaner - is good enough.

[Jesda]

Three years ago Jiffy Lube offered the Bilstein engine flush for $80, a damn good price for an excellent machine flush.

Now, it seems they switched to a Gumout flush.

****************************************DO NOT RUN A GUMOUT FLUSH ON YOUR CAR. EVER.

****************************************

The local Nissan, Toyota, or Infiniti dealer should offer an Envirolution flush for $100-$150.

-Jesda

[AZhitman]

You would be correct.

Welcome to NICO!!!

Anyway, my recommendation would be to get ANY Slick50 OUT of the crankcase ASAP. Bad news, that crap.

Seafoam seems to be the preferred "de-sludging" method, but you can also set a regimen of frequent oil changes with normal oil (in 500 mile increments). Add a half-quart of transmission fluid to the crankcase and drive gently for 15 minutes prior to draining.

Are you sure it NEEDS de-sludging? If it was well-maintained (as mine was), there should be no deposits or funk in the engine.

[maxnix]

Recommend http://www.envirolution.com

Contact Tom Mackin Cell 206 550-2914 FAX 253-639-1589 email [email protected]

to find a provider in your area.

Had it done to all 3 of my Q45 before 50K miles.

[IanW]

Thanks everyone for the heads-up so quickly. I'm pleased I asked. The Slick50 website doesn't even show a "Oil System Cleaner", so I wonder what Jiffylube actually used. I've emailed their HQ. (Don't laugh.)Thanks Tom for the envirolution.com link. It's a snazzy site (made me quite nauseous), but nonetheless I wound up having to email them to ask for a provider in Dallas.

[elwesso]

The bilstein system is the same as the envirolution..... Trust me Ive spent many hours researching... They did it at a nissan dealer for me...

That said, I am unconvinced about its effectiveness... Trust me, I am the SLUDGE KING on this forum (read: Death at 130k).. It was $80 at the nissan dealer and I brought my own oil... I would NEVER waste my money again on that procedure... I know many prefer it but dennis has said countless times, you cant expect one treatment to fix year and years of abuse.....

Again, that said, I prefer the method Hitman mentioned... However, I am **very** glad that I did NOT use this method because the extra ATF/seafoam (whatever I used) would have decreased the life even more... if you catch it early, you can clean it up and not much harm done, but if you wait until 120k like me chances are you need to start saving for a new engine..... But I doubt your engine was as bad as mine

So its sort of a catch 22.. If its really bad like mine, I would recommend a very light course of action, just use a high quality oil and change every month or so, if its just medium (mainly varnish) you can use the ATF or seafoam (dennis prefers seafoam), and obviously if its very light, you can use durablend for a few changes and then switch over to synthetic to maintain cleanliness......

[maxnix]

The bilstein system is the same as the envirolution..... Trust me Ive spent many hours researching... They did it at a nissan dealer for me...

That said, I am unconvinced about its effectiveness... Trust me, I am the SLUDGE KING on this forum (read: Death at 130k).. It was $80 at the nissan dealer and I brought my own oil... I would NEVER waste my money again on that procedure... I know many prefer it but dennis has said countless times, you cant expect one treatment to fix year and years of abuse.....

So its sort of a catch 22.. If its really bad like mine, I would recommend a very light course of action, just use a high quality oil and change every month or so, if its just medium (mainly varnish) you can use the ATF or seafoam (dennis prefers seafoam), and obviously if its very light, you can use durablend for a few changes and then switch over to synthetic to maintain cleanliness......

While the Bilstein and Envirolution procedures may be similar, I am sure there is some (perhaps insignificant) differences in equipment, procedures, or chemicals used. I doubt one would cross-license the other.

Certified practitioners use multiple flushes on really gunked-up cars. The damage has been done, but this is the only way to get some of the sludge and coke out without disassembly. One treatment may help, but will not necessarily cure years of abuse of extended filter and lubricant changes. No one ever said it would.

ATF (according to TexasOil) is minimally effective for dissolving paraffin based sludge.

Dennis specifically recommended not using Seafoam as it is too caustic.

A crankcase flush is not a curative for lubrication system abuse; it is preventative maintenance for long term build-up of deposits when performed consistently and other good preventative maintenance practices are observed.

[elwesso]

That is a good post, and something to consider... Something I forgot to mention, is if your doing cleanup, it **might** not be a bad idea to use the flushes every so often... I noticed as I was cleaning mine I would get some random valve clatter, these little "pieces" of varnish clogging the HLAs could be easily removed wiht the flush...[It does have its benefits, I will agree, but for the money I think you could go a LONG way for just hte cost of ONE engine flush... But if you want the BEST, using the ATF (BG quick clean is actually best) AND doing the flushes, say every 90 days, woudl probabyl be your best route...

ATF (according to TexasOil) is minimally effective for dissolving paraffin based sludge.

This is also true... As once the condition called oil gell is attained, theres really not much stuff that you could run in the engine safely to remove, youd have to dissasemble and we'd have a hayday "cleanup in aisle 5".

[PalmerWMD]

Thanks everyone for the heads-up so quickly. I'm pleased I asked. The Slick50 website doesn't even show a "Oil System Cleaner", so I wonder what Jiffylube actually used. I've emailed their HQ. (Don't laugh.)Thanks Tom for the envirolution.com link. It's a snazzy site (made me quite nauseous), but nonetheless I wound up having to email them to ask for a provider in Dallas.

I ahve their Nissan attachment system somewhere around here, which not all Toyota dealerships have.

I will send to you if you like.

Fred..

[PalmerWMD]

PS Slick 50 is bad for your engine.

Fred..

[PalmerWMD]

PS#2:

Seafoam is more a varnish removber than anything.Does little on sludge.

Fred..

[elwesso]

Fred, being pretty knowledgeable in chemicals... Why do you recommend seafoam and why does Dennis not.. I know you speak highly of it, but dennis wont let it anywhere near his car.

[AZhitman]

I'm sludge / varnish-free at 115K.

[PalmerWMD]

Wes,

Seafoam will do a good job on varnish.

Overuse will hurt some modern seals.

Fred..

[IanW]

Is Slick 50 bad just for Qs? Why would Jiffylube use it? If I can have a few more details about why Slick50 is bad (and maybe for what cars in particular) then I can ask Jiffylube for my money back... or more. That might be fun. Also, does anyone know if their "T-TECH SERVICE" ($69.95) includes trans filter replacement? The bill doesn't say. By the way, I'm in Honolulu. My daughter and the car are in Dallas.

[DAEDALUS]

I've never heard of T-Tech Service, but for $70 I will wager it doesn't include the filter replacenent. I do know that JLube uses cheap Dexron fluids, which I'd stay away from if you plan to keep the car for a while. $70 will buy enough M1 for a flush, but not the flush itself.

[HeavyDuty]

Is Slick 50 bad just for Qs? Why would Jiffylube use it? If I can have a few more details about why Slick50 is bad (and maybe for what cars in particular) then I can ask Jiffylube for my money back... or more. That might be fun. Also, does anyone know if their "T-TECH SERVICE" ($69.95) includes trans filter replacement? The bill doesn't say. By the way, I'm in Honolulu. My daughter and the car are in Dallas.

I echo the sentiment on Slick 50, X1R, ZMax, etc, etc, etc.

I got away from Jiffy Lube years ago after a Slick 50 treatment in the engine, trans, diff & p/s took out the three latter items in my 9,000 mile 93 Lightning at 10,000 miles.

I gave them another shot many years ago & they double gasketed the WRONG oil filter on my 91 SE-R, then when the filter sneezed oil all over Hell's Half Acre, they tried to tell me the oil on the belts would be good to condition them.

That was it for me.

The "resins" in the engine treatment stuff is little more than modern day snake oil.

No quick fixes in this department.

(Firesuit on) Personal opinion? Engine flushes are more likely to achieve a clogged oil pump pickup in a heavily sludged motor.

Jiffy Lube is the "Lanier" of the automotive world. A marketing company, not an automotive facility.

[SEBZX79]

Guys stay away from Slick50 period. Slick50 is a solid and is no good for any engine.

DO not do any engine flushes at any of these places your guys have talked about. Flushes like that are no good for your engine. Only way to clean it is slowly, by using a high detergent oil. You can run Diesel oil like Mobil Delvac 1 with frequent changes 1-2k miles.Or you can run any good synthetic oil with frequent changes. These oils will slowly unsludge your motor and will clean everything up.

Another product that many that know oils use is AUTO-RX they have had good resluts with this.

For more info then you can care to know visit http://www.bobistheoilguy.com

You can search for any of the above and you will get some very good answers with analysis to back it up with.

[PalmerWMD]

Is Slick 50 bad just for Qs? Why would Jiffylube use it? If I can have a few more details about why Slick50 is bad (and maybe for what cars in particular) then I can ask Jiffylube for my money back... or more. That might be fun. Also, does anyone know if their "T-TECH SERVICE" ($69.95) includes trans filter replacement? The bill doesn't say. By the way, I'm in Honolulu. My daughter and the car are in Dallas.

Ian:

Slick 50 is bad news for all engines not just Q's.

Fred..

[elwesso]

IF your engine is that bad, you will just break all the stuff off and clog things up.. IF its clean enough to be safe with the flush, you wont need to do it at all!!!

[PalmerWMD]

1)IF your engine is that bad, you will just break all the stuff off and clog things up.. 2)IF its clean enough to be safe with the flush, you wont need to do it at all!!!

!) agree2) respectfully disagree, I feel there clearly is a benefit to tehse flushes, why it didnt help Wes it is likely helpfuil to engines with small amounts of build-up.To keep it from becoming big build -up.

Fred..

[SEBZX79]

By running any synthetic oil with resonable OCI you will not worry about any kind of build up of sludge.

[elwesso]

!) agree2) respectfully disagree, I feel there clearly is a benefit to tehse flushes, why it didnt help Wes it is likely helpfuil to engines with small amounts of build-up.To keep it from becoming big build -up.

Fred..

Fred, while that may be true, I think a more economical way if you have a clean engine and use good quality oil, the ATF trick right before the change would be a lot more economical...

IMHO I couldnt justify doing a flush more than once a year... But my humble opinion, we can agree to disagree.....

[maxnix]

IMHO I couldnt justify doing a flush more than once a year.....

Vendors recommend it every 30K miles. I think with synthetic, one can go at least 50K with normal driving.

By the way, I did mine as a prelude to converting to synthetic lubrication.

[SEBZX79]

If you use synthetic oil you DO NOT need a flush. Any one every take a engine apart that was run on synthetic? It is spotless and does not need any kind of flush.

[BadQ45t]

My mechanic in LA Z Expert who is really a very smart guy with cars (been doing it for 25 years) got the Bilstein system. He did it to my Maxima which at the time had 175k on it and I was the third owner. botton line, it make a difference. It cut out the lifter noise that is very prevalent in the VG30 engine and the car ran better. He than did it to my Z which I'm the orig owner. It only had Castrol GTX, Valvoline or Synthetic (after it become popular in the 90s). The filter that you remove from the system shows the amount of crap that gets pulled out. The Maxima was filthy, the Z was clean and ran no differently. i think these flushes are good if you have a car with a questinoable history, if you're the orig owner and have been religious than for sure flush.

I totally agree on all additivies, just do not use them.

[texasoil]

If an engine has lost of black sludge or chocolate butter/taffy crud in the sump, the STP engine flush is, in my opinion, the best alternative to a pan drop.

Same recomendation if the crud is allover the cylinder heads. The STP producrt really works as advertised--I've researched the test results.

If theproblem is clear/amber/yellowish varnish , athe STP product also works well, but there are alternatives. Seafoam works, Berryman works, Marvel Mystery Oil works over time (slowly, several changes). Durablend or 'high mileage' oil formulations also work slowly over time. I do not recomend synthetic oils for cleaning up dirty engines. They do not hold the crud in solution.

What to use deppends on the circumstances--sometimes fast action is required and very agressive solvents can get it done. Multiple treatments with the STP or Seafoam, etc solvents , one right behind the other until the oil stays clean and clear work right now (over 2-3 hours) . It may take 3-4 flushes to get it cleaned up. I suggest using the lowest cost major brand 10W30 (usually Exxon) for the flushing oil.

I am STRONGLY OPPOSED to circulating an externally supplied 'detergent' or 'solvent' through the oil filter opening. This solvent wash scours the bearings of all lubricating film and drives any dislodged particles into the closest clearances. (without the engine running, it is not possilble to clean all the spots--only those exposed to the stream of solvent. far better to have the engine running and spraying/slinging (lubricating) oil all over the place.

[pito11213]

So texas do you recommend seafoam. I have some smoke coming out of the exhaust wanted to follow Q45 tech advice on doing engine flushes. But I want to do the recommended flush and then try the valve seals.

[nuQ]

if one were to cut open the old filter to look at the "inards", what is good and what is bad????? i've never done this before, but would like to do this at my next change to gauge the condition of my engine. the oil stays pretty golden. would just like to know what to look for.

[elwesso]

Jeff, basically you dont want any little metal bits inside...