ITT: We talk about Unions (Right to Work law thread)

[sbird1]

My Econ professor a few semesters ago told me a story about unions. A quick Google search turned up nothing or else I would have posted that too. Here is the story.

In France, unions are very powerful. Much more so than they are here in the States. Union workers do not work on national holidays. A few years ago, on Bastille Day, a pipe carrying raw sewage burst in Paris, spilling refuse all over the streets. The people in charge tried to find a plumber to come and fix the problem. Well guess what? All of the plumbers are on vacation! Because of the relative emergency nature of this problem, the city flew in plumbers from Poland to fix the leak! Upon the French plumbers return to work and hearing of what had happened, they sued the city because the city had violated the exclusivity contract that was in place. This has a lot to do with why I hate Unions.

Unions twist and skew the natural order of things. They create problems that don't need to exist. Unions are no longer necessary in this country. They serve no purpose other than to exploit companies and create shortages and other issues.

[sbird1]

This is a touchy subject.

Companies are currently too greedy and will very rarely, if at all, give out raises.

Unions are too greedy and demand raises for everyone.

Neither of these is a good situation.

If the pay is too low, find another profession. When the supply of workers in said industry becomes scarce, their pay will increase creating a natural wage that is fair for both employee and employer. This is the natural way of things and the way things should be.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

No please fill me in? You can't say it's because they're better trained, because that's not really the case.

some money does go to the union, some to medical insurance, pension, and depending on the union, some may also go to an annuity. i'm a member of the carpenter's union and my pay goes into all of that. non-union guys are responsible for their own benefits (for the most part) which is why they can bid work much lower than union shops.

as far as the money paid to the union out of the checks, some goes to the offices and their people, and some goes to union provided training. every so often, apprentices are sent to a training center to learn theory and hand skills that they need to do work in the field.

again, i can only speak for construction unions.

Non union contractors have medical benefits too, some pay more of it than others so their employees won't have so much come out of their checks. Non union workers may not have a pension but they do have the option to get a 401K. Non union contractors have the same benefits as union contractors have, yeah their employees may have to pay for those benefits but it's optional and in most cases you can pick what plan you want to go with. The only thing that isn't optional is the workers comp which is mandated by law. Unions dictate who can work and when and for how long. They take a 15 minute break at 10 am, then lunch at 12, and work stoppage has to be at 3. Seriously, if i don't want to take a morning break and work through it I should be allowed to, if I don't want to take lunch at 12 I shouldn't be forced to. and if I'm in the middle of something and 3 rolls around I'm not going to stop doing what I'm doing because I HAVE to. It's a wonder anything gets done on union job sites, because everyone is either on break or "supervising" someone else.

I'm a work horse, If I can't take a lunch because I'm in the middle of something or if quitting time rolls around and I'm not done on what ever task I'm on I'll keep going until it's done. Unions are also notorious for half assing whatever they are doing. I'm been on more than a few union job sites and corners were cut because union contractors don't have to stress about contracts like a non union contractor does because really in my area the union contractor will just intimidate their way into a new contract or back into a lost contract. Then again around here all government contracts have to be done by union workers, non union contractors can't and won't bid on them because the unions will just force them out.

[PoorManQ45]

This is a touchy subject.

Companies are currently too greedy and will very rarely, if at all, give out raises.

Unions are too greedy and demand raises for everyone.

Neither of these is a good situation.

If the pay is too low, find another profession. When the supply of workers in said industry becomes scarce, their pay will increase creating a natural wage that is fair for both employee and employer. This is the natural way of things and the way things should be.

That works when there is not a high rate of unemployment.

Currently you've got almost all fields flooded with applicants. This has caused many companies to mistreat their employees as they know there are 10 more that would love to take his/her place even at a lower wage.

[sbird1]

Supply and demand.

Sometimes it sucks but more education almost always solves the problem of an unemployed individual.

[numbnuts240]

Non union contractors have medical benefits too, some pay more of it than others so their employees won't have so much come out of their checks. Non union workers may not have a pension but they do have the option to get a 401K. Non union contractors have the same benefits as union contractors have, yeah their employees may have to pay for those benefits but it's optional and in most cases you can pick what plan you want to go with. The only thing that isn't optional is the workers comp which is mandated by law.

lifers and owners do, but the "seasonal" help more than likely isn't getting any benefits for the duration of a 3 month contract.

Unions dictate who can work and when and for how long. They take a 15 minute break at 10 am, then lunch at 12, and work stoppage has to be at 3. Seriously, if i don't want to take a morning break and work through it I should be allowed to, if I don't want to take lunch at 12 I shouldn't be forced to. and if I'm in the middle of something and 3 rolls around I'm not going to stop doing what I'm doing because I HAVE to. It's a wonder anything gets done on union job sites, because everyone is either on break or "supervising" someone else.

unions just guarantee you 8 hours a day. want to work through lunch? go crazy. want to work late? ehhh, i can almost bet that an owner is going to come around and tell you to gtfo because they want to lock up and go home. there's more to the schedule than just "because we said so". it's common accepted hours that take into consideration noise pollution, neighborhood traffic, the fact that owners and gc's want to go home too, etc. if you want to skip lunch, or work late, on a whim, have at it, but don't also expect your boss to pay you overtime. if you want to be a work horse, that's fine. if you want to work for free, that's your prerogative.

Unions are also notorious for half assing whatever they are doing. I'm been on more than a few union job sites and corners were cut because union contractors don't have to stress about contracts like a non union contractor does because really in my area the union contractor will just intimidate their way into a new contract or back into a lost contract.

i've been on the contract side, as well as the field side. union contractors DO have to stress about their contracts. underbid a job, either eat the loss, or back out and face a possibly huge monetary penalty (it varies depending on the amount of the contract). i've heard of plenty of union shops locking up their doors because they had to back out of a contract or they seriously underbid a job. as far as quality, if the owner or gc doesn't approve of something, they expect you to fix it, in a timely manner to boot. if not, they will hire someone to do it, then back charge your shop.

from what you're telling me, philly union workers don't perform like ct guys do. our guys, shop owners, owners, and gc's actually care about quality of work and will not settle for less. sure there are guys who half a** s***, but i can guarantee you that those are the same guys who are always last to get called off the bench and the first to collect a slip. things differ from state to state, so your bad experiences can't speak for every place in the country.