ITT We discuss the definition of Old Skool Rap.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

So I was on my way to a job site and was listening to the radio, came upon one of the local hip hop stations here and they were having an Old Skool noon mix thing and were playing stuff from the 90's and I got to thinking, what is your definition of Old Skool? For me it's Old Skool is anything from the 80's (Run DMC, Grandmaster Flash etc), but for other people Old Skool as anything from the mid 90's back to the beginning of the rap/hip-hop genre.

[Red coupe]

I always look at it as more of a style thing then a date thing.


I know the chronic may be old school, but if your talking "old school rap" it isn't. It has to have that sound.

[Klits562]

what is your definition of Old Skool? For me it's Old Skool is anything from the 80's (Run DMC, Grandmaster Flash etc),

Not really into any of this kind of music but i would agree with what you said in the quote.

[rc1honda]

Those you mentioned defintley apply as old school. But when i think of old school i think of
Slick Rick
Jurassic 5
Easy E
Tribe called quest
Blackstar and
seeing as in 96 i was 13 i would say Pac and biggie are both old school for me now.
Even the old Master P
And even though Snoop is still popular i would consider him old school to.

Never really got into Run DMC, or grandmaster flash.

[krimsonviper]

I dislike the 80's rap music. Not so much the music, but the recording of it. And the beats. Screw it, I dislike 80's rap music.

90's on the other hand,
That's my old skool rap.

[Looneybomber]

You know, eventually "old school" turns into "classics". What I considered old school rock/alternative is now being played on some local classic rock stations. Billy Idol!

I dislike the 80's rap music. Not so much the music, but the recording of it. And the beats. Screw it, I dislike 80's rap music.

90's on the other hand,
That's my old skool rap.

Agree'd if we're talking early 80's. Beat boxes/break beats I can only handle for so long.

[Red coupe]

Those you mentioned defintley apply as old school. But when i think of old school i think of
Slick Rick
Jurassic 5
Easy E
Tribe called quest
Blackstar and
seeing as in 96 i was 13 i would say Pac and biggie are both old school for me now.
Even the old Master P
And even though Snoop is still popular i would consider him old school to.

Never really got into Run DMC, or grandmaster flash.

like honestly not a single one of those was "old school"

[numbnuts240]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXuv7m-5_gw[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wkw_ijnsqw[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQl9jwlo9o8[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgynbFoA ... re=related[/youtube]

although i guess some people would classify kool and the gang as disco.

[numbnuts240]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQObWW06VAM[/youtube]

i really didn't want to post this one, but...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf5xbpmPcOk[/youtube]

[simmode1]

Jesus Christ... Thank you, Numbnuts! I was shaking my head at how anyone could consider stuff from the N.W.A or Wu-Tang era as old school. That's like 3rd generation, at best. REAL Old School goes back to the 70's, yo and early 80's, yo!

Even acts like Eric B & Rakim, EPMD, Slick Rick, Dougie Fresh, Big Daddy Kane, Tribe, De la Soul, and Leaders of the New School are more like the 2nd generation of Hip-hop, IMO.

It's gotta be older than this to be old shool!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TN-kDEK ... re=related[/youtube]
Damn... is FLavor Flav in there Jerkin'!?

[numbnuts240]

leave me alone with the vinyl and the record player at my parents' house and you'll hear a lot of that.

[infinitgkid]

Those you mentioned defintley apply as old school. But when i think of old school i think of
Slick Rick
Jurassic 5
Easy E
Tribe called quest
Blackstar and
seeing as in 96 i was 13 i would say Pac and biggie are both old school for me now.
Even the old Master P
And even though Snoop is still popular i would consider him old school to.

Never really got into Run DMC, or grandmaster flash.

like honestly not a single one of those was "old school"

Agreed

I think a lot of people in this thread are hinting at the right ideas but aren't putting their finger on it. In fact, this is a very complicated topic with vital specifics that fly under the radar.

When people mention Grandmaster Flash, Run DMC, and even the Sugarhill gang; you have to be very time specific because all these groups/people were into a genre called "Funk". Funk lead to an evolution (Rap music) which lead to a revolution (Hip Hop).

[Side note: Just to clear things up. Rap and Hip Hop are closely intertwined. Rap is the music, Hip Hop is the lifestyle. Both have their forms of music with a different flavor.]

So to be specific as to what is "Old Skool" and what isn't, you can't gauge it based on the decade or some time frame. Instead, you would have to review the industry as a whole and watch for how the more recent albums have changed in flavor, mood, and overall message from the older albums.

Take Snoop Dogg for example (just a random pick, don't judge), Snoop is a well known west coast rapper that came in the industry hailing from Long Beach County. If any of you have heard the opportunity to listen to Snoop's older work, he would talk about the struggle of growing up in places like LBC, dealing police, dealing with other people in his area, and weed. Fast forward to late 90's early 2000's and he may mention all of that stuff, but his work no longer revolves around that anymore. If you think I don't have a point: Back in the early 90's, do you think Snoop would have done a collaboration with a female pop singer to do a song about women in California? Think about that for a moment.

I guess to summarize what I'm saying here is to better differentiate between what is "Old Skool" and what is not, you would have to look at the shift in the attributes of the music because it really is:

more of a style thing then a date thing.

And "Old Skool Rap" has a certain flavor or as Mr. Coupe put it:

It has to have that sound.

[audtatious]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I-eYHhulZo[/youtube]

Rap.......ture

[simmode1]

Infinitgkid, I can't agree with you on that. I think that the time period is very important to defining 'what is old school?'... You make a good point about that fact that many old school acts spoke out about what they see around them, what is going on in their community and the ills of society. But there are much newer acts that do the same, Like Lupe Fiasco, Common, OutKast and Goodie Mobb for example. Making socially conscious rap doesn't make you old school.

Old school is more than just lyrical content, delivery and the style of the beat. Its old! It has to be OLD!

You also point that some group might be defind as funk rather than rap, based on the time of their release. Remember, in the beginning... the media didn't know what to call this new movement in music. These groups you refer to as funk would be the groups that bridged the gap between funk & hip-hop, IMO. They are both funk AND Hip-hop, not either one or the other.

[infinitgkid]

Infinitgkid, I can't agree with you on that. I think that the time period is very important to defining 'what is old school?'... You make a good point about that fact that many old school acts spoke out about what they see around them, what is going on in their community and the ills of society. But there are much newer acts that do the same, Like Lupe Fiasco for example. Making socially conscious rap doesn't make you old school.

Old school is more than just lyrical content, delivery and the style of the beat. Its old! It has to be OLD!

You also point that some group might be defind as funk rather than rap, based on the time of their release. Remember, in the beginning... the media didn't know what to call this new movement in music. These groups you refer to as funk would be the groups that bridged the gap between funk & hip-hop, IMO. They are both funk AND Hip-hop, not either one or the other.

Understandable.

And, you are right about time period being important. What I'm trying to say is that it is not AS important as the other attributes. Towards the end of my post you'll see that I also mention that the definition of old school rap has that "flavor" or "sound" to it. In my opinion, that "flavor" and "sound" plays a bigger role in defining old school rap music than the time frame does.

In addition, you are right when you say:

Old school is more than just lyrical content, delivery and the style of the beat. Its old! It has to be OLD!

I can agree with you on that, but your statement about those groups being funk AND hip hop at the same time; I can't agree with, however. I believe that the moment the Hip Hop revolution was ushered in, the Funk movement was ushered out. Granted all the aforementioned groups may have bridged the gap, but they evolved and moved on leaving Funk to die. Funk was the foundation that gave birth to Hip Hop.

[simmode1]

See, by that assertion... What keeps an artist like, saaaaay T.I. from dusting off an old Eric Sermon beat, spitting some socially conscious lyrics on it and having it labeled as 'Old School'?

I picked T.I. because of anyone really relevant today that I can think of... I think his cadence, delivery and depth of insight would be the closest to emulating some of the really old shool acts. On second thought, I think Slim Thug and Bun B could do it too...

[infinitgkid]

See, by that assertion... What keeps an artist like, saaaaay T.I. from dusting off an old Eric Sermon beat, spitting some socially conscious lyrics on it and having it labeled as 'Old School'?

I picked T.I. because of anyone really relevant today that I can think of... I think his cadence, delivery and depth of insight would be the closest to emulating some of the really old shool acts. On second thought, I think Slim Thug and Bun B could do it too...

I see what you're saying. And, this is where I go back to my original point. It's about the style of the music! To know the style you would have to... well... just know the style (not the best argument, I know! But music enthusiasts of this genre will know what I'm talking about).

[BusyBadger]

what is your definition of Old Skool?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYzakWz3JxU[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SgvJY9xxcA[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRtrL7Nf1xc[/youtube]

[simmode1]

I was a professional music/entertainment journalist & critic of my city's (Austin, TX) newpaper for about 3 years, so yeah... I'm call myself a music enthusiast. I've met and interviewed De La Soul. I've met and interview Wu-Tang. I've met and interviewed Mos Def. And others, like The Roots too... I still don't classify them as old school.

I'm sure you know as this used to be a big thing in Hip-hop (ppl don't seem to care about it nowadays), but any style can be emulated or copied. We used to call them 'biters' and say they were biting somebody's style, much like Nicki Minaj is 'biting' Lil Kim's style. So just because someone has a certain sound or style doesn't actually make them the real thing.

I think about this sh*t all the damned time. How can we bring back real Hip-Hop as opposed to the BS we are innundated with today? It's a very deep a philosophical issue, actually. And the answer has much less to do with 'style', 'flavor' or 'sound' rather than the mindset of the PEOPLE. The Old School music that me and Numbnuts are talking about came from ppl with a totally different mindframe from ppl of the 90's and today. To truely recapture the spirit of that type of rap, would mean a total transformation in the thinking of an entire subculture. And that ain't likely to happen anytime soon.

The timeframe influences the mindset, which dictates the style and sound.

[numbnuts240]

I've met and interview Wu-Tang.

jealous. every time they come to new haven (which is actually pretty often) i always find out about it a week too late. pisses me off. but yeah, old school hip hop/rap is gone. anything else is an emulation. i can agree that the whole genre morphed and evolved into what it is today, but the world is in a different state of mind than it was in the 70's/80's. my old man grew up listening to all that, among other things, so i've been hanging with him, playing his old vinyls for as long as i can remember. like i mentioned in my first post, some of it could be considered funk, or disco, but the roots of hip hop are there. the music has progressed over the years, but sometime just after the turn of the millennium, i quit trying to follow the current trends and stayed back in the times when the music was actually good.

[simmode1]

but sometime just after the turn of the millennium, i quit trying to follow the current trends and stayed back in the times when the music was actually good.

I kinda went the opposite way. I saw that alot of the so-called Righteous Teachers and coscious rappers were getting into the same sh*t as the hardcore rappers. It all started to seem pretty hypocritical to me. I started to distance myself from the heavy handed politcal rap which was always kind of a mood downer and started listening to more of the ignorant sh*t. At least you can dance to that stuff... lol

Every once in a while though, I'll get called back to the essence of real hip-hop and respark the love... <3

jealous. every time they come to new haven (which is actually pretty often) i always find out about it a week too late. pisses me off.

I got a chance to met alot of really cool acts... but the ones that I missed out on hurt me to the heart! Lauren Hill, Erykah Badu and Destiny's Child after their 1st album before they were really big... All my potential baby mamas!

[numbnuts240]

da stanky legg is not a dance. but dammit it's comical.

[simmode1]

Teach me how to Dougie... lol
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY9uZWCh4go[/youtube]
Love this ignorant sh*t nowadays... lol

[infinitgkid]

I was a professional music/entertainment journalist & critic of my city's (Austin, TX) newpaper for about 3 years, so yeah... I'm call myself a music enthusiast. I've met and interviewed De La Soul. I've met and interview Wu-Tang. I've met and interviewed Mos Def. And others, like The Roots too... I still don't classify them as old school.

I'm sure you know as this used to be a big thing in Hip-hop (ppl don't seem to care about it nowadays), but any style can be emulated or copied. We used to call them 'biters' and say they were biting somebody's style, much like Nicki Minaj is 'biting' Lil Kim's style. So just because someone has a certain sound or style doesn't actually make them the real thing.

I think about this sh*t all the damned time. How can we bring back real Hip-Hop as opposed to the BS we are innundated with today? It's a very deep a philosophical issue, actually. And the answer has much less to do with 'style', 'flavor' or 'sound' rather than the mindset of the PEOPLE. The Old School music that me and Numbnuts are talking about came from ppl with a totally different mindframe from ppl of the 90's and today. To truely recapture the spirit of that type of rap, would mean a total transformation in the thinking of an entire subculture. And that ain't likely to happen anytime soon.

The timeframe influences the mindset, which dictates the style and sound.

For the record: I'm not trying to undermind your music knowledge with my music enthusiast statement. I just wasn't sure where you were in your knowledge of music and the industry. Forgive me.

I guess you are making some pretty solid points due to your background regarding the topic at hand. I may have been skimming the surface when I was speaking about the style and the feel of the music. You're right though, a majority has to do with the mindset of the artists in the industry. A mindset which has changed... greatly...

This mindset is producing absolute garbage and it is desguised as "Good music". That's all I'm going to say about that. That topic is for another thread at another time and date.

[numbnuts240]

see, i'm ok with dance music. but these specific dances are one of the reasons i don't club anymore. might as well put on the electric slide. plus i always ended up seeing groups of dudes doing the same dance, together, all by their lonesomes. you know how i know they're ghey? i used to club to dance WITH GIRLS, and dance with my own style, not exactly like everyone else.

[simmode1]

You're right though, a majority has to do with the mindset of the artists in the industry. A mindset which has changed... greatly...

This mindset is producing absolute garbage and it is desguised as "Good music". That's all I'm going to say about that. That topic is for another thread at another time and date.

Actually, I am firmly convinced that the artists aren't the problem. Alot of these ppl are artists in the truest sense of the word! They want to make beautiful art! The problem is that the public won't buy any socially conscious music in any significant quantities. Or at least before Drake came along. Drake has the potential to really transform the industry right now, IMO. It'll be interesting to see what happens next...

see, i'm ok with dance music. but these specific dances are one of the reasons i don't club anymore. might as well put on the electric slide. plus i always ended up seeing groups of dudes doing the same dance, together, all by their lonesomes. you know how i know they're ghey? i used to club to dance WITH GIRLS, and dance with my own style, not exactly like everyone else.

You are soooo right, man! Girls Jerkin = HOT. Dudes Jerkin in tight pants = Ghey.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

While I'm not a huge fan of the early 80's groups, Run DMC gets mad respect from me because when the new age came in in the late 80's they were still out there. Personally my Rap and Hip Hop tastes fall into the early to mid 90's stuff, groups like Mobb Deep, Wu-Tang, and Onyx were what I listened to in HS. Even Tupac before he jumped over to the west coast style was good. I miss the days when there were 3 set styles of hip-hop/rap and the only difference was based on geographic styles. Lyrics actually mad sense, the beats were awesome and no one got airplay on the radio outside of hip-hop stations unless they did a coraboration with the likes of Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, or Janet Jackson and even then it wasn't cross genrelized.

This stuff that is out now is completely stupid and with the exception of a small handful of artists I can't listen to any of it. Back in the day it was only a small handful of artist that I couldn't stand.

[simmode1]

I miss the days when there were 3 set styles of hip-hop/rap and the only difference was based on geographic styles.

Word. The south has pretty much just strongarmed the game for the past 6 years or so. But I was just thinking to myself, there's a ton of dance music that catches crap from lovers of real hardcore hip-hop... But when you think about it, catchy beats with dances attached have been around for a loooooong time!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IBRbzf3 ... re=related[/youtube]
Ain't nuthin wrong with a feel good dance track!

[Chaotic_Warlord]

I miss the days when there were 3 set styles of hip-hop/rap and the only difference was based on geographic styles.

Word. The south has pretty much just strongarmed the game for the past 6 years or so. But I was just thinking to myself, there's a ton of dance music that catches crap from lovers of real hardcore hip-hop... But when you think about it, catchy beats with dances attached have been around for a loooooong time!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IBRbzf3 ... re=related[/youtube]
Ain't nuthin wrong with a feel good dance track!

The difference with that track and what is being put out now is that it was (and still is) a good track, this stuff that is out now is just garbage. The "artists" that are butting out tracks now fit in a cookie cutter mold that Young Jeezy and Lil' Wayne created, and I truthfully can't stand either one of those hacks. Them, and everyone else out now, are in it the hip hop game to make money. Whereas back in the day the hip-hop artists and rappers that were out were out to put a light on the strife and hardships of the ghetto's they came from first, the money they got was a bonus. It wasn't until the early 90's that money became a driving factor for artists to come on the scene.

I blame P.Diddy and the Cash Money Millionaires for destroying the hip hop scene and completely changing the game. While evolution is genereally a good thing and I'm all for new blood to come into play, but when anyone with 3 brain cells and a catchy hook can get a record deal then evolution turns into de-evolution.

[serg-z32]

i honestly dont know anything about "old school".. too me it might have something with a place in time. But there is also the style of rapping that could be an old school vibe, no?. Like storytelling, just talking about real life and stuff like that...
idk.. .well, im a noob and i really like hip hop.. heres just a few of the stuff i listen to..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPiKKfcjI-4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjhoFw8KXJQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgZX71tbr3w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVYza0NiWuU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia0VxX1y-1M

well.. thats just stuff. I like Common, Jurrasic 5, Dom Kennedy, A Tribe Called Quest, Murs, Mof Def, Talib Kweli, OutKast and some other ones.. lol. well those are just my two cents in a billion dollar topic. peace!