Its getting cold (for some). How do you warm up in the morning?

[maxnix]

My transmission fluid however was brown. Didn't smell burnt but judging by color, I think it needs to be replaced soon. When I bought the car, the dealer told me that all fluids had been replaced.... I take it it's time to change?

I bet the dealer didn't say when. Shame on your for believing him.

I would say you are about 40Kmiles over due, at least.

Bite the bullet, get the kit from Joe, get 14 qt. of Mobil standard ATF and 14 qts. of M1 ATF and 6 oz. of LubeGuard Red.

http://www.findashop.com

Dont' screw with the inefficient drain and refill multiple times. Bite the bullet and sind a shop that will flush it with teh standard fluid, drop the pan, clean it and the plug, change the filter and O ring, replace the gasket and the one time use bolts. Now mechanically exchange with the M1 ATF and top with 6 oz. of Lube Guard Red.

Your transmission is on life support, so you need ICU type care if you want any mileage at all out of it.

Next time, change it while it is still pink at 25K or when it is not bright pink (white paper towel test), whichever is first.

How about the auxiliary ATF cooler?

Any bets on the PS fluid?

[Haitian_King]

I don't believe I have an auxiliary ATF cooler. Then again, I've never been under the car.

So in all, I need 28 qts or transmission fluid? Damn.

I'll be happy when I can get a break from all this. Am I really 40K overdue? I just hit 88k on the odometer.

What color is the PS fluid supposed to be? My dad checked it and the brake fluid and told me I was at good levels.

What should I be seeing to alert me to the PS status?

[Haitian_King]

All Joe has is the pan and filter. Is that all I need? Besides the 12 gallons of transmission fluid?

[maxnix]

Then unless it was changed very early in its life, the dealer lied to you.

So what's new?

When it is brown, I and most BG professionals will recommend a dual flush. It's ultimately cheaper and more effective as the hoses remain attached, than doing it twice at two different times.

If it is brown, it is way past due.

Look for a B&M 70268 or 70264 at

http://www.summitracing.com

I think you need to spend a little more time reading the previous posts, especially by Q45tech. All of this has been covered many times in the past, so we old guys assume everyone knows this.

[Haitian_King]

What am I looking at costwise for this dual flush. Do I have to buy the fluid myself?

Damn. Looks like the Q goes back to the shop on Saturday. Third one in a row.

Anyways. Which one of these ATF Coolers is better? The $50 or the $60?

Damn, damn, damn.

I might have to start stripping to keep affording Q maintenance.

[Q45tech]

If ATF is discolored NOT RED or faded out red, don't waste premium ATF and don't take the chance that a Flush chemical can dameage or clog passages.

Do a simple exchange with the cheapest ATF you can buy, Then do it again and add flush chemicals to red new cheap ATF, follow proceedures to exercise in every gear then finally do an exchange with Premium ATF.

Better to waste $1.25 quart ~$20 worth of ATF a few times than $70.

[elwesso]

I agree with maxnix... The cost of an extra 14 quarts of ATF isnt going to be a big deal. The shop shoudlnt charge you any more money to run that through. You may not need a full 2 flush but i would definitely let it run for a minute or 2 of nice clean fluid coming out.... however a full dual flush you cannot go wrong.

[Haitian_King]

So, do the cheap exchange once? In the driveway. Then get a flush and replace with Premium? I'm kind of confused.

I'm sure Tech knows what he's talking about, I just need clarity.

So, transmission fluid. Synthetic? And is Mobile 1 the best?

[elwesso]

My personal opinion is to use conventional ATF and change it every year. It costs 2x as much for synthetic and if you replace it every year you're not really gaining anything. I like fresh fluids, and if you keep replacing the cheaper fluids, then you're fine. Obviously itd be best to replace synthetic every year, overkill though.

What im saying is when you take it in for a flush, is have the tech run the cycle (14 quarts) 2 times (for 28 quarts) or at least mroe than once. my point is you dont necessarily have to go the full 28 quarts, but if you can bring your own juice then its fine.

My shop did one for me for $60 including fluid and we ran like 18 quarts through it, since their machine only had 3 settings (like 6, 12, and 18 or something like that).. I got to stand next to the car, i watched them pour fresh fluid from the bottles into the machine and watch the machine pump it through, it was pretty cool.

ONCE YOU have nice clean fresh fluid you can keep up with it using the driveway method if you want.

[maxnix]

So, do the cheap exchange once? In the driveway.

No, drain and fill is always an incomplete exchange. Do like Wes, Q45tech and I are recommending and use a mechanical exchange to get the tar out of your transmission. Q45tech recommends using BG Quick Clean just before the final exchange.

While they won't charge you to reattach the hoses for the second flush, they will charge you something to run it again and for their time. Negotiate.

And call first and make sure they will perform it exactly as we described before taking it in. Some shops won't do a pan drop. As an alternative, ask your local SnapOn jobber which shop has a Sun AT/PS fluid exchange machine. He'll know.

This thread is now totally hijacked. Why we want you new guys to read the previous posts as all this and even more detail is there.

[Haitian_King]

Sounds good. Looks like I'm going to the shop this weekend. I'll buy my own fluid, have them drain the old, put in 14 qts and drain again, then the second 14 qts will be the last to go in right?

Or is it, drain, fill, drain, fill, drain, then fill. Giving me a grand total of 42 qts going through the system?

[maxnix]

No drain.

Mechanical exchange.

http://www.bgprod.com

[Haitian_King]

Well, the conversation took a turn. How much longer could we talk about our morning warm-up rituals. I for one am glad for the segue.

Secondly, maxnix, you lost me again. All this talk of pans, and drops, and magical leopluridons, has me all flummoxed.

[Haitian_King]

That's what I meant. So yay or nay on the 42 qts? You guys are the experts.

Can you tell me EXACTLY what you've done. Anyone. Right now my gameplan is to

1. Buy fluid.2. Go to the shop.3. Mechanically exchange fluid until the machine fails.4. Drive away.

Yes?

[96Qowner]

Well, the conversation took a turn. How much longer could we talk about our morning warm-up rituals. I for one am glad for the segue.

Except that you shouldn't be the one to decide for everyone else. Hijacking = bad manners.

It's best to start a new thread if something off-subject occurs to you to ask.

[Jesda]

That's what I meant. So yay or nay on the 42 qts? You guys are the experts.

Can you tell me EXACTLY what you've done. Anyone. Right now my gameplan is to

1. Buy fluid.2. Go to the shop.3. Mechanically exchange fluid until the machine fails.4. Drive away.

Yes?

Yep! Or in my case I paid the shop to go get the bottles of Mobil 1 ATF.

14 quarts and a few hours later, my transmission shifted quicker and smoother than ever.

[maxnix]

Right now my gameplan is to

1. Buy fluid.2. Go to the shop.3. Mechanically exchange fluid until the machine fails.4. Drive away.

Yes?

No, not quite. Please pay attention.

1.) Buy 14 qts.of regular ATF and 14 qts. of Synthetic of same brand, provided you want your final fill to be synthetic. And if you believe your PS fluid is good. If not and using the Sun machine, get another gallon of M1 and some BG Power Steering conditioner.

2.) Buy filter, O-ring, one-time use bolts, pan gaskets from Joe. Might want to consider the external ATF filter also. He might also have BG Quick Clean also. If not, add to step 3.).

3.) Buy B&M ATF cooler from summit, and buy Lube Guard Red if your final fill is M1 ATF.

4.) Call around and find a shop with BG or SnapOn Sun machine (there are others with which I have no experience), and describe how you want the service done and get a bid.

5.) Do it as described previously. See if they will let you watch the fluid pass through the hoses.

The first thing a new Q45 owner does in the absense of evidence to the contrary is to change all fluids immediately. One does not believe oral information.
Modified by maxnix at 12:53 PM 10/23/2007

[elwesso]

Except that you shouldn't be the one to decide for everyone else. Hijacking = bad manners.

It's best to start a new thread if something off-subject occurs to you to ask.

Listen to the man.

Now to be completely hypocritical, heres what I woudl do in your case.

Before taking the car to the shop, i would drop the pan and replace the filter. You can only drain about 5 quarts out of the trans from the pan.. (usually a full 5 quarts with a pan drop) Most of the fluid is in the TC and the rest of it stuck inside the trans...

So all the fluid youre going ot need is however much you want to run thorugh during the flush, and the 5 quarts or so youll need to do the pan drop. I like to do the pan drop before the flush since I dont think the flush will move many particles around, its better to get themout than recirculate them because doing the flush with the cleaner will tend to loosen some stuff up.

[Haitian_King]

Wow. Your version = overly complicated and complex. You're really stressing this synthetic. Wes stated that the main difference between standard and synthetic is really cost.

Secondly, your version is telling me to go buy out the whole back left corner of Joe's warehouse. I NEED this done this weekend. And all this business about the ATF cooler. Um, winter's coming. I'm pretty sure nature has the cooling thing down. I think the ATF cooler can wait till spring. I live in Jersey, not some sort minor outlying island located on the equator.

I've been typing in this thread all day. Every time I think I'm getting to understand this thing perfectly, you throw a monkey wrench in the works with your obsession with synthetic transmission fluid. Does Mobil 1 sponsor you?

As of right now, I think I'm just going to take the car to a transmission shop. Some place like Cottman's or PepBoys.

And you totally didn't tell me anything about the PS fluid other than to buy some other stuff. How do I know it's bad?

[Jesda]

Mobil 1 is your friend in high heat situations, but compatible ATF flushed every 20-25k is just as effective.

[Haitian_King]

Thanks Jesda.

[maxnix]

Some place like Cottman's or PepBoys.

Guaranteed incompetence.

HK, you really need to read all of Q45tech's posts on transmission maintenance shich specifically detail how he serviced his for 173K miles with minimum degradation (.5 sec increase in shift time). You need to read these posts before ever posting on this subject again. Maybe even read them thrice. No more nannying from me. You've got pablum all over your bib.

You can cetainly do less than his annual flushes, but you need to understand that your transmission is totally abused. You should not spare the effort to restore it unless you are looking forward to an earlier replacement.

One last quote.

"Member's standards vary." - Q45tech

And you totally didn't tell me anything about the PS fluid other than to buy some other stuff. How do I know it's bad?

Any bets on the PS fluid?

The question should be, "Why should I assume the power steering fluid is good?"

- Fini -

[DrewQ45]

Before taking the car to the shop, i would drop the pan and replace the filter. You can only drain about 5 quarts out of the trans from the pan.. (usually a full 5 quarts with a pan drop) Most of the fluid is in the TC and the rest of it stuck inside the trans...

So all the fluid youre going ot need is however much you want to run thorugh during the flush, and the 5 quarts or so youll need to do the pan drop. I like to do the pan drop before the flush since I dont think the flush will move many particles around, its better to get themout than recirculate them because doing the flush with the cleaner will tend to loosen some stuff up.

I guess I'll add to this. Firstly, transmission fluid starts out bright red and crisp smelling. It then degrades to a clear color and the smell loses it's bite. At this point it should be changed. Finally, it becomes brown and burnt smelling, at which you have entered the danger zone.

Just a clarify, a "flush" is nothing more than fluid exhange. A CHEMICAL flush is what's really needed when people say "flush." The chemicals should break down the varnish and help loosen up pockets of particles (clutch shavings mostly)... Now imagine the flush machine trying to push all that junk throught the same old halfway clogged filter. It would be the least effective way of doing it and probably the reason why most are afraid to flush old trannys for fear of "dislodging"... That's why Wes is right in saying you should do a pan drop and filter change first. Me?... I say don't buy a filter...it's nothing but a mesh screen. Flush it with gasoline (search under my ID) then have the transmission chemical flushed. Personally, I would then drop the pan again after a few days of driving then flush the filter again. From this point on, simply do manual drain/pan drops and filter flushes sticking with conventional transmission fluid every 3-4 engine oil changes

[Haitian_King]

So, according to your logic, a shop that specializes in transmissions and transmission maintenance is just a breeding ground for incompetence? A place I've seen Q's and J30's lined up to get service? Wow.

As far as the "nannying" goes, you're terrible.

@DrewQ45: Thank you for making that clear for me. I saw what Wes was saying, I just couldn't wrap my mind around it. So, I'll have that done. Drop the pan, flush the filter, drain & fill, drop and flush filter again, and then get a chemical flush, then top off with fresh fluid.

Sounds like a sound plan.

[DrewQ45]

Drop the pan, flush the filter, drain & fill, drop and flush filter again, and then get a chemical flush, then top off with fresh fluid.

Actually you drop and flush filter again a few days after the chemical flush, not right after the first filter flush. See links in this post...

zerothread?id=259122

[Haitian_King]

Thanks a million.

[mxr662]

[QUOTE=AlabamaDan]I wouldn't mind having a block heater or something for our winters especially my jeep when I'm at hunting camp, but I'm too lazy to install. Sometimes it gets down to the teens. I've thought about that oil dipstick heater from JC Whitney - it's probably elcheapo.[/QUOTE

I used a magnetic heater on my oil pan when I lived in the midwest and was too lazy to install a block heater.http://www2.northerntool.com/s...e.htm

[96Qowner]

I forgot about that one. That magnetic oil pan heater works great!

But, I wouldn't bother for something like a 20 degree morning. We do it because it gets seriously cold here - it's not good for the motor to have to start from those temps for weeks on end.

[Haitian_King]

Hmm. Sounds like something would be a great investment.

[Q45tech]

People keep confusing a flush machine with something active it has no pump inside it is just a giant rubber bladder with an expandable divider. with psi gauges.

The 14 quart pour into one side gets pushed out as the AT internal pump forces ATF into the empty side..................TOTALLY self regulating by the internal AT pump................every old ounce in pushes a new ounce out back to AT....................there are valves to bypass the bladder and sight glasses to view the circulation.

The internal AT pump sets the back pressure and thus the forward return pressure. The AT pump's health is the diagnostic time to move 14 in and 14 quarts out............1 gallon per minute at hot idle [750 rpm] ~~ 3.5 minutes.