It's too hot not to have AC

[cccpman]

Triple digits are getting to me, time to roll the windows up because having them down isnt helping

I have read some posts on conversions and how (un)satisfying they can be. I also have failed to locate a good supply of R12 - the alternative I have been looking at is Freeze12. Anybody else here using it, or is this just some cheap knockoff bound to fail?

If it isnt that bad an idea and wouldnt be hard to convert (seems like little to no work right?) I was looking at the "Quick-charge kit" to see how it runs at this sitehttp://freeze-12.com/

insights, advice, or reviews?

[maxnix]

Forget Freeze 12 and other pseudo R12 replacements. Either rehabilitate your R12 (the least expensive), or convert to 134a for long term solution. Nissan made a kit at one time, but it is not cheap as it is the whole updated system.

[Q45denver]

Obviously you'll need to fix any leaks. I think the main argument against it is that it is flammable.

[Q45tech]

Even after using the oem conversion kit [new compressor, flex lines and dryer] the TSB points out that the best R134a can do with oem evap and condenser is 3-4F warmer than with properly functioning R12 system.

[maxnix]

But if you replace the condensor and evaporator also, you are there. Also, older ECU only control one speed electric assist fan instead of newer two speed one.

[cccpman]

Freeze12 isnt flammable as far as the sites that sell it claim

The R12 in the area is very expensive and impossible to find elsewhere so I guess its time for 134a? Do you have any links to the kits - or were you saying to switch over I need a condensor/evaporator and its kosher to fill with R134a? (The R12 system worked 100% as of last summer IIRC, but its empty)

Thanks for the knowledge guys

[infinitinut2]

Recently had to have the system charged on an old beater 85 Toyota S/W to survive coastal SC summer and R12 was - are you ready - $85 per pound! Charge cost more than car worth! Yikes! Does not seem that long ago when a can at WM was a buck 89!

[maxnix]

Wonder if your best bet is not to get the whole shebang off a later q45, clean it and install it on yours?

[elwesso]

Ive put freeze12 into cars with R12 and it works good. Freeze12 is actually a blend of R134a and another refrigerant that makes it compatible with the oil in the system. Its not going to be OEM cold, but it will cool your car down adequately.

Im using freeze12 in Ross's Q and its OK. I think theres something else wrong in the system, because it doesnt cool at all. However, I used it on a friends toyota celica (1990 MY) and it made it nice. He enjoys having AC. Whether or not its OEM cold or not is iffy, but the fact is it blows cold air.

Listen, heres the deal. I fully encourage you to TRY Freeze 12. R12 is about $20/12oz can (going price on ebay if youre lucky) IF you have the proper certification (20 question EPA quiz, costs $20 or so). You'll need 3 cans, so theres $80.

Freeze 12 is $30 for 3 cans... You can charge it at home and at least get your AC back. If you dont like it, then you evacuate it and start over. It wont contaiminate your oil, in other words you can go from R12 to freeze 12, then go back to R12.

Does the AC compressor come on at all? if it still comes on that means it still has a decent charge. You might be able to get a can of R12 and top it off yourself, or top it off with freeze 12, which I woudl probably do the latter, since if you are going to evactuate the entire system you are probably not going to replace it with R12. R12 is still VERY available, granted not easy compared to 134a. IF you really want to have hte R12 system, get yourself certified (probably would take an afternoon on the PC) and go buy some.

I heard that in 2009 or so they are going to make R134a obsolete. Im going to start stocking up now!

[cccpman]

Well the only place that had more then 2lbs was offering it to me for $85 also so I just walked out

Like I said the AC works, without the cold air part :P

for $50 I would rather try something and have so-so results then pay $250-300 for some R12, and I would think the conversion could be in that range or more (minus the idea take it from a parts car). If it doesn't work out I might try maxnix's idea

Just looking for some 65-70 degree air so I dont have to cringe when somebody comes up to give my sweaty back a hug

[elwesso]

Confirm with me that the AC compressor is kicking on (IE you can hear the clutch turn on and off when you switch from auto to econ).

If so Id try topping it off with some freeze 12 and see what happens.

[Jesda]

I've used Freeze12 and it works pretty well.

Of course, any leaky AC system is bad for the environment, so if that keeps you up at night then its something to consider.

[cccpman]

All parts of the AC seem to work fine, including the compressor. The Freeze-12 arrived today, I need to replace a couple of schrader valves, one of them is so easy to find... the other... well im still looking. I lifted the car on the passenger side but still could not locate the second valve - my problem is probably that I cant find the nice manual that came with the car in that cardboard/wood box

are there any diagrams where I can find the lower valve? If not do any of you mind taking a digital pic with your finger pointing it out or something along those lines

Thanks

[qship96]

the only valves are the 1 for high and 1 for lowside - both are right up top in the engine compartment 1 near firewall pass side,the other beside the rec/dryer near battery

[cccpman]

yea somehow I missed it, thought caps were color coded or something (red blue)

Now that they are color coded, one of you guys who did the recharge how long did it take to empty a 12oz can? You connected to the valve closest to where the passenger sat right?

Thanks qship96

[elwesso]

Yeah thats correct.

Did you verify that your compressor was coming on? if the compressor isnt on, the refrigerant wont go into the system.

I can guide you through it fairly easy, may be easier to call me, my info is on Q45.org.

[cccpman]

you got it wes, I appreciate the assistance. I will give you a call tomorrow, any time specifically you would prefer?

[elwesso]

im on EDT (GMT -5) so anytime around 11-12noon should be fine.

[Jesda]

The bottom of the can will get cold. Thats when you dip the bottom half into a bowl of hot water to force the rest of the refrigerant out.

[cccpman]

sorry wes something has come up and I will be gone for about 4 more hours then planned today. It will be late afternoon here when im finally able to give this a try (im gmt -7, and should be back around 6:30, before leaving again at 8)

the compressor should come on if I put the AC to max right? as for the can getting cold, thats good advice Jesda. Instructions appear rather simple - Im probably only going to put in 24 oz to be safe

I will let you know how this goes when I get back - thanks again guys

[Jesda]

The compresor will come on if:Refrigerant is at the right level.The high/low pressure switch is functioning properly....and a few other things.

Is the middle of the compressor spinning or just the outside clutch?

[elwesso]

The compresor will come on if:Refrigerant is at the right level.The high/low pressure switch is functioning properly....and a few other things.

Is the middle of the compressor spinning or just the outside clutch?

thats mainly what I wanted to know. Just wasnt sure on how to describe that effectively over the internet.

It doesnt really matter, i just need to know so that I can tell you how to jump start the compressor. What you may be able to do is put the can in hot water and force some more refrigerant in there. that may be enough to get the compressor going, and then once its going you should be fine.

Normally what I like to do is heat the can up, put some in, let it sit for a minute (so you can look at your gauge temps) and then decide if you want to add more.

I would think I would stop once you get to within 5F of stock at that temp.

IMO you wont need 2 cans. It may take the better share of 1 can to get it cold, but I woudlnt go overboard. Remember, the systme only holds about 3 cans of freeze 12 to begin with (and thats completely empty). If the charge is stil enough to cause the compressor to come on, then you are definitely within 1 can to get it back to where it should be.

[Skibane]

[cccpman]

awesome worked great, I only put in one can and am getting some amazing results. The can only put in about 1/4th of what it had so I added some really hot water in a bowl and it sucked the cans contents right in

thanks guys, appreciate all the help

[elwesso]

glad it worked for you! Is it as cold as R12?

[cccpman]

I know its not quite as cold, I would say maybe 3 or 4 degrees dif. Regardless its nice and frosty to the point I had to open the windows and get some warm air in there

[qsiguy]

Glad to hear successful results. I will never understand the argument that you shouldn't bother with changing the freon because it'll be 3-4* warmer than OEM. When it's 100+ outside who cares if the a/c is blowing 42* instead of 38* or whatever.

[elwesso]

I would love to have you write an article about this.

[cccpman]

all right elwesso I guess its only fair. Since it wont be long or technical at all it shouldn't be too much of a problem to replace. Give me a week or so (actually maybe the Monday after next if all goes well) when my car should be running in tip top shape and I can start to focus on helping the other owners with the knowledge I gain

[FarFetched]

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