Is this amount of oil normal?

[AxiOn419]

Does anyone think that this page may explain the issue I am having:

http://cjsupra.kendra.com/PCV-Can.html

Seems to make sense to me.. Since I havnt been running a catch can maybe the vapors just built up over the years? Possibly?

[Cpt_Impossible]

Is the liquid pure oil? or an oily water? One of my guesses would be that you had a layer of black oily film in your intake system which when introduced to condensation and such made a mucky mess.

[Cpt_Impossible]

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclengine.htm

[Cpt_Impossible]

Oh, and I don't like the ebay ones, they use kitchen hose and have that crappy clear tube that will get destroyed with underhood temps. RRE one is quality.

[Cpt_Impossible]

Here's my friends I painted for him a few years back.

[Darius]

Hahhahaaha that pic still cracks me up. Like I've said before, it reminds me of R2D2 with a stiffy.

OK Cpt_impossible, your catch can setup is good except for one MAJOR issue and one MINOR issue. First, think about what happens when you reach boost and lets say you're at 10 psi in the manifold? That same pressure is being seen in your intake valve cover and similarly in your exhaust valve cover and ultimately in the crank case. Pressurizing the crank case is the exact opposite of what we want to have happen. You need to either remove the line from the intake manifold, or put a PCV valve in there so that it closes that line under boost. Hence, air can only flow one direction.

Second, and less major is the breather filter on the catch can. It is pulling vacuum from the intake pipe, but once it gets to the catch can, the breather filter is seeing that vacuum too and introducing air into the catch can. This will not allow vacuum to be pulled on the crankcase ventilation system. Plus, it is introducing unmetered air into the intake possibly causing a lean condition depending on how much air is being sucked in.

If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail me. [email protected]

Axion419 - I have oil like that (except maybe a little less) in my intake tract and I think it is because my turbo oil seals are old and aren't doing their job 100%. A catch can will improve the conditions slightly, but with that much oil, I am almost guaranteeing the turbo oil seal is on its last leg.

[AxiOn419]

Hahhahaaha that pic still cracks me up. Like I've said before, it reminds me of R2D2 with a stiffy.

OK Cpt_impossible, your catch can setup is good except for one MAJOR issue and one MINOR issue. First, think about what happens when you reach boost and lets say you're at 10 psi in the manifold? That same pressure is being seen in your intake valve cover and similarly in your exhaust valve cover and ultimately in the crank case. Pressurizing the crank case is the exact opposite of what we want to have happen. You need to either remove the line from the intake manifold, or put a PCV valve in there so that it closes that line under boost. Hence, air can only flow one direction.

Second, and less major is the breather filter on the catch can. It is pulling vacuum from the intake pipe, but once it gets to the catch can, the breather filter is seeing that vacuum too and introducing air into the catch can. This will not allow vacuum to be pulled on the crankcase ventilation system. Plus, it is introducing unmetered air into the intake possibly causing a lean condition depending on how much air is being sucked in.

If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail me. [email protected]

Axion419 - I have oil like that (except maybe a little less) in my intake tract and I think it is because my turbo oil seals are old and aren't doing their job 100%. A catch can will improve the conditions slightly, but with that much oil, I am almost guaranteeing the turbo oil seal is on its last leg.

Alright thanks, I called a local turbo rebuild shop around here and he estimated about $400 to rebuild the turbo if I hand delivered it That is way more than I am willing to spend on that turbo. If I run the turbo in this condition what are the repercussions and how long can I expect it to last? Bad idea?

Also, could you reccommend a catch can that will work for me? I want to run a 100% closed system and I am guessing retain the PCV valve

[Darius]

Catch cans are basically a wide spot in the pipe to slow the air down enough for the oil to fall out of suspension. People add Brillo pads and other stuff to add surface area inside the catch can to improve oil vapor removal. I would recommend one that you can take the top off of to do so. Greddy makes one like that as do others. It really won't make a huge difference, but every little detail helps. If you want to run without a PCV valve, that's fine too. It is only open under vacuum conditions anyways, so low load. I just capped my PCV valve and ran one line to the catch can and had a breather filter on the catch can. This winter I plan to relocate my can so that I can plumb a closed system back into the intake tract.

Try the catch can first and clean everything up to see if it makes a difference. If it is for sure the turbo, then look in the classifieds section because people upgrade their turbos and have RB25 turbos for sale all the time. $100-200 or so.

[AxiOn419]

Dont catch cans that vent to the atmosphere stink? Id rather not smell anything so I think plumbing everything back to the intake is just fine unless there is some advantage I will be missing out on. I will definately get a catch can though, just a matter of finding one now

The rb25 turbo bolts right up to the rb20, correct?

[Darius]

Nah they don't stink. Just leave kind of an oily residue near the can from vapor that escapes.

I am not certain, but I think it is a direct bolt-on.

[l0nestar]

Oh, and I don't like the ebay ones, they use kitchen hose and have that crappy clear tube that will get destroyed with underhood temps. RRE one is quality.

My Cusco catch-can came with the 'crappy clear tubes' what do you suggest to replace them? High-temp vacuum line? Braided stainless is out of the question

[AxiOn419]

Where did you get yours from? The only place I know to look for a catch can is eBay and they dont have many choices, all the same thing! Do you like your can? And can I get a link to where you got it from? Thanks

[Darius]

Check out the list of NICO sponsors. I believe Phase2 has a couple of different options.

[raremotive]

I don't to mean add any confusion Axion.

But to bring into the discussion.. doesn't valve baffles solve the problem of separating the oil and the blow-by gases in the valve?

I don't know about rb20det and it's parts availability. But thats a aftermarket part for an rb26dett for those oil with blow by gas problems.

Edit:And more to your confusion Axion.. pictures yay! I got these from Mine's Wave website.

The first image is the difference from the two valves (stock, with baffle plate):

The second image shows how the ventalization works on the baffle plate as the oil moves:


Modified by Rare_f8 at 12:25 AM 10/8/2007

[Darius]

Great first post! I have never seen those diagrams but yes in theory the baffles are to keep the oil in the head from sloshing out of the valve cover openings. BUT Nissan oversized the oil orifices that feed the head (probably just being conservative) and under extended high rpms, allow a ton of oil in the head. This creates a lot of oil vapor and the need for a catch tank before reintroducing the air to the intake tract.

[raremotive]

Actually funny you say they oversize the oil orifices to the head, because it sounds the exactly the opposite of the problem of engine oil starvation, because they undersized the return orifice from the head.

Most people figure to put a higher volume oil pump .. the N1 pump.. which only speeds up starving your engine quicker.

But best method is to open the holes in the head to match the block's. I was going to make a tutorial on how to make the oil flow back to the block better. But I am still waiting for my engine to come from Japan.

However I found someone else who done it! More pictures... I hope you are not lost yet Axion..

The first picture shows the untouched head, the oil return is by cylinder 6.

The second picture, using the head gasket as a guide, and cross referencing to the block. You can open up those orifices.

The third shows on top where the final cylinder head bolt is. And I added a few of my own touch..

The fourth shows the flashing was removed, however your own touches to further help this problem is up to you...



I got these pictures from Bob_H from HybridZ... http://forums.hybridz.org/show...age=4

EDIT: sorry pictures are small...but now they are big
Modified by Rare_f8 at 7:26 PM 1/17/2008

[l0nestar]

Axion,

I will just say that I got mine from 'not a sponsor'.

I know Phase2 has some, but mine is different because it is sealed (no breather / vent). I'm not sure if this will help or hurt me. I'm actually thinking it may help since it is not able to take any extra air in.

Rare_f8,

Very Nice Work! Can you get the pics any larger??

[raremotive]

Yeah they are big now...turns out the hosting size really ulitilizes %20 as a size change like html... so it got shrunk %20...

-Enjoy

[AxiOn419]

Wow, thanks for all the information rare_f8. Though you did kind of lose me, are you saying I need to resize the oil inlet orifice and that will fix this problem? Those diagrams describing the baffles and all that.. I dont think I have any idea what I am looking at. What exactly does my problem appear to be.. removing the head is a huge leap for me at this point.

l0nestar, I am looking at getting a non ventilated can so I can run a 100% closed system, I just need to find a good can.