Is Sarah Palin a step back for women's rights? Please discuss.

[sanioll]

With full due respect for her as a woman and as a politician.

Her views:

Pro-Life ( no abortion even in case of rape ) Wants creationism to be taught in schools ( this one is sad )Opposes embryonic stem cell research, even the ones that are frozen, which will be discarded later anyways.

* http://www.ontheissues.org/Sarah_Palin.htm

In the issue of candidates I am neutral, no particular party, just the right party for the country at the moment and for years to come matters to me.

I believe she is dangerous to have as a VP. Imagine if McCain does not make it to end of his first term, and Palin becomes a president. That will be a disaster. Not because she is a women, but because she has no experience, and dangerous views. If you believe that I am sexist, compare Sarah Palin to Hillary Clinton. Heaven and earth difference.

Please discuss. And try not to be biased.

I just hope and pray to god, that we make the right decision this November, and choose not the person we want to have a barbecue with, but the person that is right for the job.


Modified by sanioll at 2:08 PM 9/19/2008

[96Qowner]

So Sarah doesn't believe in abortion. The only step back for women is that they were unable to convince Sarah that abortion is just fine. She has said repeatedly that it's only HER opinion, HER belief system, HER morality. She would like to see individual States chose whether abortion should be legal or not. Not an issue.

Creationism? Yeah, I agree that's one I just don't get. But I'm not sure what that has to do with women's rights. ????

Opposes destroying fetuses in the name of science. Again .... women's rights???

No, having a woman as VP elevates women's rights - NOT a "step back" in any sense. Sarah Palin is NOT a moral activist and has never been one.

[sanioll]

Well I should have named the title differently? Something like Why Sarah Palin should not be the next Vice President of United States?

"HER belief system"

We saw how the current president's belief system affected his moral decisions.Now we are way behind South Korea in stem cell research.

All I am trying to say is that you cannot have a person with biased religious beliefs, strict static views, and no proper education as a President or VP. Just want what is best for the country.

[S13_love]

No aboration even in the case of rape!?!?....thats just not right

Palin is a very risky and dangerous pick as a vp....lets say if mccain croaks, one thing i would want to know is how much foreign policy experience she has

Also you got to be careful on the politics board here on nico...everyone here are McCainiacs (cheesy?...yes i know)...they really love to rip on obama and the dems. while me (an obama supporter in this election) can only sit back and nearly myself to death after reading all the bs thats being posted on here

[96Qowner]

By all means, join in the debate any time you wish. Defend your candidate with logic and facts. We need more Obama supporters who are willing to engage in constructive debate. We already have the ones that only want to throw bombs and tell jokes.

[mtcookson]

Wants creationism to be taught in schools ( this one is sad )

Umm... that's not even close.

Palin has not pushed for teaching creationism in Alaska's schools. She has said that students should be allowed to "debate both sides" of the evolution question, but she also said creationism "doesn't have to be part of the curriculum."

http://www.factcheck.org/elect....html

Personally, I don't think evolution should be allowed in schools if creationism isn't also allowed. Evolution is just as much a religion as there is no solid proof of it (and don't even try telling me otherwise... its not going to work).

[HashiriyaS14]

everyone here are McCainiacs

It does probably seem like that, doesn't it?

It would, for whatever reason, appear that a great number of the staff (who are so active in this sub-section) are McCain supporters (obviously myself notwithstanding, see sig).

It would be interesting to chart the NICO staff on a map and see what percentage hail from red states versus blue states, and then contrast that balance with the balance of the US population as a whole. I suspect that NICO indeed is probably skewed a little red.

I didn't ever expect car forums to be a big conservative community, mainly because I associate the tuning of import cars with young kids from California, Miami, Philly, DC, and similar cities, a demographic that almost certainly skews Democratic (and sadly a demographic with almost certainly dismal voting turnout, lol). NICO appears to pull a very different demographic than many other car boards. Many/most other boards appear to be almost uniformly Democratic with the odd McCain outlier here or there.

I still think that if you polled the whole of NICO membership, you'd get an Obama majority, just due to age. The 240 community in particular would greatly contribute to this, as they most closely mirror my "tuner stereotype" above. The mod staff tends to be older than the user average (I suspect), and thus is probably more conservative.

EDIT:

Personally, I don't think evolution should be allowed in schools if creationism isn't also allowed. Evolution is just as much a religion as there is no solid proof of it (and don't even try telling me otherwise... its not going to work).

^^There is one big problem with this.

Evolution isn't derived from any specific religion, unlike Christian creationism. You can't teach Christian creationism to a body of kids when they may not all be Christian. I know that in certain areas of America, it may still seem like we "live in a Christian Nation", but I can assure you that this is not true for the entire country. I had a bunch of Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist, and Jewish kids in my schools growing up.

How are you going to teach a Muslim or Hindu kid things out of the book of Genesis? Their parents pay property taxes to fund public schools, don't you think they'd be just a little angry about that? This is NOT an issue on which the "majority can rule". How would you feel if you were in the minority? That doesn't strike you as at all wrong?

[mtcookson]

I'm not specifically talking about Christianity, just creationism which I believe most religions have in common.

As far as the minority thing goes... anymore it really seems like I am in the minority and only allowing evolution in school seems very wrong to me. I remember in high school, our science teacher basically taught in a way that she passively made it sound like evolution was completely true and would not allow anyone in class to try disputing that with anything to do with religion. I'm sure that happens quite a bit elsewhere too, which is pathetic in my eyes.

[HashiriyaS14]

I'm not specifically talking about Christianity, just creationism which I believe most religions have in common.

As far as the minority thing goes... anymore it really seems like I am in the minority and only allowing evolution in school seems very wrong to me. I remember in high school, our science teacher basically taught in a way that she passively made it sound like evolution was completely true and would not allow anyone in class to try disputing that with anything to do with religion. I'm sure that happens quite a bit too, which is pathetic in my eyes.

Well, science teachers tend to be scientists by trade, or at least they have a natural science background. If you haven't noticed, a HUGE percentage of scientists are athiests. If they didn't believe completely and totally in natural science, they wouldn't likely be spending the entirety of their lives either teaching or advancing it, methinks.

For what it's worth, I think they SHOULD be made to introduce evolution as a theory instead of fact, but it should still be taught, SOLELY. See below.

Anyway, so which version of creationism would you teach? Are you going to mix some Hindu lore and Shinto myth in there with the book of Genesis? Which set of myths is the right blend?

Why not teach JUST evolution but present it for what it is, a THEORY. Say it's a theory, teach it like "some people believe this, but no one REALLY KNOWS and others subscribe to their own teachings".

Why get specific? If parents want to teach an alternative at home, they they should do it.

[WDRacing]

Off topic...

Poll the staff Hash...serious.

On topic...

Religion of any type needs to stay out of schools...ALWAYS. No leway here...

If you want your kids to learn creationism, send them to a Religious School of your choice, but keep it away from my kid. I'll be the one deciding what my kids learn and believe...not some friggin teacher reading from an approved lesson plan.

As far as Palin asserting her beliefs...has she done so in Alaska?

[rn79870]

NOW seems to think so. They did something extraordinary for them, they endorsed Obama. They rarely endorse anyone, but they cited Palin as the reason for choosing Obama. Of course, they only represent 500,000 votes for Obama. But, also, polls show that the 81% of the Hillary supporters are backing McCain. That's about 14,000,000+ votes.

So, the important question is whether or not women see Palin as a step back, and apparently, they do.

[HashiriyaS14]

If you want your kids to learn creationism, send them to a Religious School of your choice, but keep it away from my kid. I'll be the one deciding what my kids learn and believe...not some friggin teacher reading from an approved lesson plan.

THANK YOU.

Although I don't really want to "decide what my kids will believe" either, I'd rather they do that on their own. You know, once I actually have them.

But, also, polls show that the 81% of the Hillary supporters are backing McCain. That's about 14,000,000+ votes.

Did you mean to say that 81% are backing Obama? Last I checked it was more like 70%, but I know for sure that a *majority* of them are not backing McCain, that would be huge news and we would've heard a lot more about it.

[WDRacing]

Well, you're a bit more Liberal minded then me their Hash. One always raises their children in the light they feel is best. It's not like you are going to let them choose what church to attend as they grow up right? I believe in freedom of choice, but that only goes so far. You're still the parent and your job is to help your children make the best decisions possible because they simply can't make them on their own.

By all that I mean, if Kate and I are attending a Methodist church every Sunday, and my 14 yr old has decided that he no longer wants to go to church for a reason aside from I wanna sleep in, then he can choose to not go. But until then, he'll be educated on the religion that I choose. As he gets older if wants to adopt a different religion he can do so.

[rn79870]

Did you mean to say that 81% are backing Obama? Last I checked it was more like 70%, but I know for sure that a *majority* of them are not backing McCain, that would be huge news and we would've heard a lot more about it.

Oh yeah...

PRINCETON, NJ -- The Democratic convention appears to have helped solidify support for Barack Obama among former Hillary Clinton supporters, with the percent saying they will vote for Obama in November moving from 70% pre-convention to 81% after the convention, and the percent certain to vote for Obama jumping from 47% to 65%.

Note, to that 65 % certain to vote for Obama, you need to add the 15% uncertain Obama supporters. McCain has about 14% (certain and uncertain), while about 6% are undecided. Yes, it's big, HUGE big for Obama.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109....aspx

[96Qowner]

Have they re-polled after the Rep convention?

No? Odd.

[HashiriyaS14]

By all that I mean, if Kate and I are attending a Methodist church every Sunday, and my 14 yr old has decided that he no longer wants to go to church for a reason aside from I wanna sleep in, then he can choose to not go. But until then, he'll be educated on the religion that I choose. As he gets older if wants to adopt a different religion he can do so.

Yeah, I agree with that 100%.

Obviously, when they're really young, they do whatever you do.

I just know people who are 25-26 and have decided to change religions or denominations from their childhood yet they have parents who are essentially disowning them for it. Obviously this wouldn't be you, or for that matter, me.

[WDRacing]

Yeah, thats just retarded. Unless they are converts to some radical extremists where they wish death on all other religions...then freedom of choice is always the best option.

[SteveTheTech]

IMO is seems like Sarah Palin is not qualified yet to assume the role of VP and/or president if that were to happen. I don't think that a small town mayor and one time governor of a state regardless of sex is qualification enough to assume the role of big time politics. I think it was more of a stratagy move on the Republicans part to nominate her.

Why not Condoleezza Rice she is by far more qualified and if they are trying to win over the minority vote that would be the way to go? I guess the counter for that would be that they are trying to distance themselves from GWB. It makes sense but she has the foreign affairs experience that none of the other candidates posess.

Palin does have experience with oil though... I don't really know if that is a positive or not and the reporters that have been digging into have discredited most of the things she has stated in those regards. Alaska does not supply 25% of the domestic supply. (I will have to find the story later aparantly MSNBC is too raunchy for my employer).

Her lack of foreign affairs experience should be enough to raise a red flag at this critical junction in American history. We need someone that is going to help improve the American image in world eyes. Although I am not a huge Liberal Biden does have a pretty decent foreign affairs backround and at least has spent some time inside the Beltway.

[mtcookson]

Why not teach JUST evolution but present it for what it is, a THEORY. Say it's a theory, teach it like "some people believe this, but no one REALLY KNOWS and others subscribe to their own teachings".

The problem is, from what I've seen, many don't do that. One teacher I had actually went as far as to basically say theories are generally fact (and therefore evolution is fact - she didn't say that part but most definitely implied it in that statement). I would have laughed hysterically had I not thought I would be punished for doing so.

The simple fact of the matter is science can not prove it nor will it ever be able to prove it (unless by some miracle humans stay on this earth for another few million or so years for the proper time span to prove or disprove it). Anyway... sure you can teach it simply as a "theory" but like I said a lot of times it will be pushed a little further than that by some teachers and you could just as easily teach the "theory"/belief of a god/creation along side it. Something like, some believe life started in some mud and we evolved from that while some others believe everything was created.

For all I know, evolution could have been God's way of making all of the species... or maybe de-evolution... not sure what to call it, essentially modifying a certain DNA to come up with different things. My whole problem with evolution though is that currently, there are way too many holes in the theory that simply makes it impossible for me to believe (with or without higher intervention).

Quote »We need someone that is going to help improve the American image in world eyes.[/quote]Exactly what kind of image do we need to improve and what kind of image do we need to portray?

Personally, if there is any image that needs improving its a lot of the world's image. If we're going to be throwing money all over the place, the people we're throwing money and supplies to need to improve their own image. I personally don't want to give anything to anyone who hates us for instance.

[Cold_Zero]

With full due respect for her as a woman and as a politician.

Her views:

Pro-Life ( no abortion even in case of rape ) Wants creationism to be taught in schools ( this one is sad )Opposes embryonic stem cell research, even the ones that are frozen, which will be discarded later anyways.

* http://www.ontheissues.org/Sarah_Palin.htm

In the issue of candidates I am neutral, no particular party, just the right party for the country at the moment and for years to come matters to me.

I was listening to NPR Morning Addition Thursday Morning and they were interviewing the head of NOW (National Organization of Women) about Sarah Palin http://www.npr.org/templates/s...58965

and Renee Montagne came right out and asked if NOW will endorse Sarah Palin. The only issues that NOW could come up with Sarah Palin was about her views of 'Abortion' and that John McCain didn't vote for some piece of women's rights legislation. Oh boy. I kind of knew by virtue of the fact that NOW could never support a Republican, they like the Labor Unions are to entrenched in Partisanship. But seriously, the only reason why the National Organization of Women won’t endorse Sarah Palin (a female candidate for Major Office) because of her views on Abortion and John McCain’s voting record. It should be noted that NOW normally does not endorse Presidential Candidates, yet made an exception this year.

I honestly think you guys really don't understand Sarah Palin. The reason why she has charged 'the base' so is because of her firm stance on the issues.

But where do you get that she opposes all Abortion?

* Rejected sympathy for Down's Syndrome son, as gift from God. (Aug 2008) * Opposes embryonic stem cell research. (Aug 2008) * Every baby is created with a future and potential. (Aug 2008) * Safe Haven bill: allow surrendering newborns without penalty. (Feb 2008) * Adoption is best plan for permanency for foster care kids. (Oct 2007) * Pro-life. (Nov 2006) * Choose life, even if her own daughter were raped. (Nov 2006) * If Roe v. Wade got overturned, let people decide what's next. (Oct 2006) * Opposes use of public funds for abortions. (Oct 2006) * Pro-contraception, pro-woman, pro-life. (Aug 2006) * Only exception for abortion is if mother's life would end. (Jul 2006)

You see the last point? Want to refine your comments? To be honest it interesting that she indicated, “if Roe v. Wade was overturned,” she would let the people decide what is next. Next time don't fly off the handle sanioll.

Quote »I believe she is dangerous to have as a VP. Imagine if McCain does not make it to end of his first term, and Palin becomes a president. That will be a disaster. Not because she is a women, but because she has no experience, and dangerous views. If you believe that I am sexist, compare Sarah Palin to Hillary Clinton. Heaven and earth difference.[/quote]Wow, just wow! How is Sarah Palin dangerous? You know dangerous typically indicates that a person is a menace to his/herself or to the society. So I guess what you are saying is that people with differing views from you are...dangerous? In a sense you are a closed minded individual who can’t tolerate differing opinions. This is symptomatic with people who claim to be ‘Open Minded,’ yet are closed minded to Judeo Christian religions or values. I guess that I am dangerous since I hold to a Pro Life Anti Murder view, I would like (both New Earth and Old Earth) Creationism taught in public schools and I am staunchly against Embryonic Stem Cell Research. While I hold to a view that abortion should only be legal in certain cases (which is not a radical view), I don’t understand why teaching creationism in Public Schools is such an issue? I went to Public Schools that taught both Creationism and Evolutionism. Nor do I understand why Creationism is such a dangerous concept? Is it because if you exception Creationism then you think the next logical conclusion is that you have to believe in the Judeo Christian God? Or is there some underlying issue that you have with Christianity and this is how it is manifested itself? How is Creationism dangerous? I fail to see how its subversive. Furthermore, why does Public School have to be devoid of Judeo Christian religion or morals? The public schools do a great job currently teaching Secular Humanism, Wicca and other religions/moral system in their schools. I guess what you all are saying is that there is no place for Christianity in the public schools. And on the topic of Embryonic Stem Cell Research, I don’t buy into the garbage that it is the Holy Grail of curing all forms of illness and medical problem. People like Michael J. Fox run around acting as if we only had full-blown embryonic stem cell research; he would be cured of his disease in a few days. Give me a break. Why can’t we use stem cells from the placenta and adult stem cells to perform research? Further more I abhor the use of embryonic research because I don’t want our society harvest children in order to produce them. What happens when all the embryonic stem cells are all used up?

Further more I am probably scaring my child by making her go to church, got to a Christian Preschool and teach her, her religion.

Quote »I just hope and pray to God, [/quote]Fixed your comment for you. The whole capitalizing a Proper Noun thing.bud

[SteveTheTech]

For all I know, evolution could have been God's way of making all of the species... or maybe de-evolution... not sure what to call it, essentially modifying a certain DNA to come up with different things. My whole problem with evolution though is that currently, there are way too many holes in the theory that simply makes it impossible for me to believe (with or without higher intervention).

It all comes down to what you feel is true. Personally I side on the side of science. It makes logical sense to me, slow changes that cause a species to adapt to their environments. I do not believe that a higher power had his hand in it. The genetic similarities between us and some primates are too similar. That is solely my personal opinion thought and one of the things that makes this country so great is that that is still my right.

Exactly what kind of image do we need to improve and what kind of image do we need to portray?

Personally, if there is any image that needs improving its a lot of the world's image. If we're going to be throwing money all over the place, the people we're throwing money and supplies to need to improve their own image. I personally don't want to give anything to anyone who hates us for instance.

I think the recent events in Georgia involving Russia flexing its muscle on a small defiant former territory. The USs stance was that they must cease and desist immediately. Seriously!, we invaded Iraq without international backing and many countries did not agree but we imposed our will on them and finally received support. I think that many people outside of the US see us as hypocrites and I don't know if I disagree.

I agree with mtcookson though that we should not be handing money to countries who do not like us. What will we do to ensure they like us though? Depending how much money they are looking at I am sure there will be whatever amount of knob polishing is required to get their cash. Although the dollar is not worth nearly as much and it may not be in their best interest anymore. It's doubtful though a hand out is a hand out. How can we be still giving tons of money away when we are borrowing it ourselves?

[AZhitman]

....sit back and nearly myself to death after reading all the bs thats being posted on here

Dude, here's the deal. We don't unload on you when you post something dumb and then come back a post or two later and go "Oh yeah, I wasn't thinking" or, "Oops, I didn't read that correctly".

If you see such "BS", please, it's your responsibility to point it out, post a valid and supported opposing viewpoint, and demonstrate the inaccuracy of the post.

Simply saying "it's BS" is schoolyard nonsense. You gotta bring your A-game in this forum. I know you can do it.

[AZhitman]

I suspect that NICO indeed is probably skewed a little red.

I didn't ever expect car forums to be a big conservative community,

Pretty eas to explain.

We're one of the few forums that's run by HARD-CORE enthusiasts. Guys wo have built multiple cars, in their garage, with their own hands.

You think Barack Obama even knows where the oil filler is?

The whole DIY, busted-knuckle, appreciation-for-the-past, 'build it to go fast' mentality is very, very rooted in conservative American culture.

The Right: Hot chicks, hot cars, and cold beer....

The Left: Metro guys, sensible transportation, sparkling wine....

Yeah, we're probably leaning a little to the right. But I think the vast majority of us are pretty centrist when it comes to social issues.

[Jesda]

Most car forums lean to the right because of environmentalists with their heads shoved up their behinds. Miata.net leans left on certain issues because they hate trucks and SUVs, because people like me put the fear of God in them on the highway. [I <3 Miatas btw.]

GMInsideNews is about 50/50, E46Fanatics is 50/50. Lots of drooling retards on both forums... LOTS.

The Cadillac forum leans right, since its populated by a lot of war veterans.

I live with a libertarian-leaning-on-some-issues wannabe-urbanite liberal, a hick from Idaho, and a Floridian. Its not like its impossible to get along with different kinds of people.

Evolution, abortion, gay people, and other issues that don't affect daily life are emotional distractions that political fanatics and extremists dwell on. For the rest, its purposeless mental masturbatlon.

I care about my taxes, I care about how my taxes are spent, and I care about the free exchange of goods and services. Naturally, as a business owner who values economic freedom, I can't vote for McCain or Obama. If Barr wasn't running I'd stay home, so save me the "wasted vote" cliche.

[SteveTheTech]

Ok I'm still newish here and I want to preface this by saying I have read the sticky and I full well know about the religious arguments are not tolerated here but I think it's only fair to have both sides here even if they differ from the Moderator and CEO. I am sorry if my opinion differs from you we still have many things in common and in general chat would get along great. Don't hold my views against me.

Wow, just wow! how is Sarah Palin dangerous? You know dangerous typically indicates that a person is a menace to his/herself or to the society. So I guess what you are saying is that people with differing views from you are...dangerous? In a sense you are a closed minded individual who can’t tolerate differing opinions. This is symptomatic with people who claim to be ‘Open Minded,’ yet are closed minded to Judeo Christian religions or values. I guess that I am dangerous since I hold to a Pro Life Anti Murder view, I would like (both New Earth and Old Earth) Creationism taught in public schools and I am staunchly against Embryonic Stem Cell Research. While I hold to a view that abortion should only be legal in certain cases (which is not a radical view), I don’t understand why teaching creationism in Public Schools is such an issue? I went to Public Schools that taught both Creationism and Evolutionism. Nor do I understand why Creationism is such a dangerous concept? Is it because if you exception Creationism then you think the next logical conclusion is that you have to believe in the Judeo Christian God? Or is there some underlying issue that you have with Christianity and this is how it is manifested itself? How is Creationism dangerous? I fail to see how its subversive. Furthermore, why does Public School have to be devoid of Judeo Christian religion or morals? The public schools do a great job currently teaching Secular Humanism, Wicca and other religions/moral system in their schools. I guess what you all are saying is that there is no place for Christianity in the public schools. And on the topic of Embryonic Stem Cell Research, I don’t buy into the garbage that it is the Holy Grail of curing all forms of illness and medical problem. People like Michael J. Fox run around acting as if we only had full-blown embryonic stem cell research; he would be cured of his disease in a few days. Give me a break. Why can’t we use stem cells from the placenta and adult stem cells to perform research? Further more I abhor the use of embryonic research because I don’t want our society harvest children in order to produce them. What happens when all the embryonic stem cells are all used up?

Pretty eas to explain.

We're one of the few forums that's run by HARD-CORE enthusiasts. Guys wo have built multiple cars, in their garage, with their own hands.

You think Barack Obama even knows where the oil filler is?

The whole DIY, busted-knuckle, appreciation-for-the-past, 'build it to go fast' mentality is very, very rooted in conservative American culture.

The Right: Hot chicks, hot cars, and cold beer....

The Left: Metro guys, sensible transportation, sparkling wine....

This is what most of the intellectual lefties think of people from the midwest and right wing extremists. I was raised as a catholic I was confirmed at 16 and my mother taught Sunday school so I am not an outsider. When I was 16 I started to attend a Baptist church. My wifes' family is Jewish and I have studied some of their religion as well. I am by no means a theologian but I know from personal experience what my personal views are and they are not unfounded.

I feel that religion in any form has no place in a publicly funded organization or any sort,school included. The Old Testament values of love thy neighbor and treat others as you would like to be treated is one thing but we should not have a giant crucifix in every school. What about the children of varying faiths? America is supposed to have freedom of religion or from religion if you choose. The theory of creationism may be posed to children with other theories. Evolution is something you believe to be the truth or do not and the deciding factor is whether you have blind faith. I do not my need for answers and logic have caused me to rethink my religious standpoint.

As for your point on stem cell research also purely a religious standpoint I am at a loss here, I sided with you on many things you have written about personal finance and the housing market but this is different. http://stemcells.nih.gov/info/health.asp There are clear benefits to stem cell research and the notion of destroying a living person. The cells they want to use are going to be discarded anyway why would you want to deprive people who are seriously ill the chance at a cure? Maybe you can answer me this isf Christians are so willing to condemn stem cell research but support invirto fertilization? This is flabbergasting to me both of them employ science to do gods work. If god wanted people to have children he would have supplied them with the means to do so.

Not all gear heads are right wing I have been a strong centrist for many years, I have built fixed and owned many cars. I like guns, beer, and naked women like most other straight guys do I just don't think that this is a theocracy and it should not be run as one. I would like the government to stay out of my business as long as I play by the rules and allow it's citizens whatever (within legal reason) they want to do to achieve their pursuit of happiness.

Just my 0.02. please don't ban me I really like this type of discussion.

[Jesda]

I disfavor the rabid religious right, and I equally despise the Christian-bashers on the left who for whatever reason embrace Islam.

As for stem cells, I oppose all public funding for all scientific research. It seems we as a society expect the government to do everything for us, from curing diseases to wiping our behinds.

Instead of questioning what role the federal government plays in disease research, we skipped that part and only debate the religious and emotional issues. Lame.

[sanioll]

What do you guys think about Matt Damon's comments?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6urw_PWHYk

In my personal opinion ( an opinion ), anyone who believes that world was created 10000 years ago, is either mentally retarted, uneducated or just a total ignorant idiot. Creationism, or intelligent design (creationism in disguise) has no place in schools.

Cannot wait to see the debates. First one is on 26th right?

Everyone should check out Bill Maher first movie, "Religulous." It should be able to explain the truth behind the most religions.http://video.google.com/videop...hl=en
Modified by sanioll at 8:48 PM 9/19/2008

[Jesda]

What do you guys think about Matt Damon's comments?

Are you serious? Why the hell should anyone care what Matt Damon thinks?

[Cold_Zero]

Ok I'm still newish here and I want to preface this by saying I have read the sticky and I full well know about the religious arguments are not tolerated here but I think it's only fair to have both sides here even if they differ from the Moderator and CEO. I am sorry if my opinion differs from you we still have many things in common and in general chat would get along great. Don't hold my views against me.

If you read the rules, general religious discussions will not be tolerated. But when religion and politics transect as in the case of this discussion, religion is by no means off limits. And I don't hold your views against you Steve nor anyone else in this forum. I get along with almost everyone.

Quote »I feel that religion in any form has no place in a publicly funded organization or any sort,school included. The Old Testament values of love thy neighbor and treat others as you would like to be treated is one thing but we should not have a giant crucifix in every school. [/quote]I guess that is where we probably disagree. I don't get my panties in a bunch because some form of religion may be present or co-exist in a public school, politics or the public forum. I just don't understand how you can have a public school or curriculum that is devoid of religion or of morals when discussing/teaching certain topics. My daughter goes to Preschool at our church and there is a little Hindu girl in her class. Her mother obviously has no issue sending her child to a preschool that has a Christ Centered Cross Focused curriculum. I think that is great and I always say Namasté to them in the morning. I just don't understand why some Anglo's get bent out of shape when religion is part of the curriculum. It should be pointed out that the Public School System in this country was founded and use to be run by Christian Churches with the intent to education people to read the Bible. Also when you look at the post secondary system in this country it was established by christian churches (University of California Berkeley, Harvard, William and Mary and Princeton).

Quote »What about the children of varying faiths? America is supposed to have freedom of religion or from religion if you choose. [/quote]No where in the US Constitution nor the Founding Documents is the Freedom From Religion is guaranteed. If I move to Saudi Arabia, I don't expect for them to put away their religion because I may have a differing religion. Like wise, because this country has a rich tradition and heritage of being based on Judeo Christian religions people shouldn't expect that religion to be just put away.

Quote »The theory of creationism may be posed to children with other theories. Evolution is something you believe to be the truth or do not and the deciding factor is whether you have blind faith. I do not my need for answers and logic have caused me to rethink my religious standpoint. [/quote]Bingo, it takes just as much faith to to believe in Evil ution than it does Creationism.

Quote » I like guns, beer, and naked women like most other straight guys do I just don't think that this is a theocracy and it should not be run as one. I would like the government to stay out of my business as long as I play by the rules and allow it's citizens whatever (within legal reason) they want to do to achieve their pursuit of happiness.

Just my 0.02. please don't ban me I really like this type of discussion. [/quote]A. You won't be banned. B. I like guns, beer, and my woman naked. I agree that our country should not be run as a theocracy and more correctly a theonomy. Our government has worked (for the most part) for the better part of over 200 years. I am very reluctant to change that.bud

[dusred]

In my personal opinion ( an opinion ), anyone who believes that world was created 10000 years ago, is either mentally retarted, uneducated or just a total ignorant idiot. Creationism, or intelligent design (creationism in disguise) has no place in schools.

Cannot wait to see the debates. First one is on 26th right?

I disagree, and I think you're an uneducated and mentally retarded idiot for believing in Evolution. . . that means we're even right? but I'm not going to force my beliefs on others. They can take a frickin piece of cardboard and say it is responsible for the earth and I could give a **** less (which in reality is what Darwin did).

BUT when schools only allow evolution to be taught I think that's BS; not because I don't believe in it but because you are only giving the kids one side of the story; you are only giving them 1 persons view of the world and how are they going to make the right choice of what they believe if they are only given one persons version (which is TOTALLY a theory)?

No wonder 80% of America is Atheists. . . because it is the only thing taught to them in Public Schools.

If Evolution is taught in schools Creationism should be taught too; they are both theories with no REAL proof. It's like kids only being taught the logic of Lib's and banning the logic of the Conservatives. . . if they aren't taught both sides they won't be able to make the right choice for themselves.

Edit-

Another thought: I no longer wonder why my parents sent me to a private school. Wait til the Gov't tries to take over all Private schools and ban parents from homeschooling their children because they are not teaching evolution.

In reality Palin is being VERY fair in wishing Creationism to be taught in school. As we are now the Gov't is forcing their views on everyone by banning religion from schools.
Modified by dusred at 6:15 PM 9/19/2008