Is my turbo blown or worse?

[Jurand]

All right guys, I need your help to diagnose multiple problems with the setup listed in my signature. I bought the turbo used along with most of the setup and it seems that it has blown seals. When I start the car, it idles just fine, but after about a minute or so white smokes starts to pour out of the exhaust. There is also some oil on the bottom of the turbo center housing and at the compressor outlet. At first I thought that maybe the smoke is just the car running rich because my wideband is showing 11-12 AFR at idle. It seems that my 555cc injectors are just a bit too large for e-manage to handle. However, now that I noticed oil around the turbo, it seems that the smoke must be the burning oil. Plus, the exhaust fumes don't smell like gasoline, but more like burning rubber or something like that. At the same time my boost gauge only shows about 15psi of vacuum at idle. I haven't checked for boost leaks yet because I don't have a compressor.

My conclusion is that these two things (smoke and low vacuum) are not related and that one is caused by a bad turbo and the other is a slight boost leak. At the same time, I am freaking out that maybe I already screwed up my engine with the crappy tune on the e-manage. I only drove the car so far for less than 100 miles before it got really cold around here. It was a bit nicer today so I started it up again and got some crappy videos for you guys. The smoke out of the tailpipe looks a bit blueish in the video but it's really just white.

http://www.photodump.org/stored3/smokeb ... 0sx001.mov

Now, if I need to get another turbo - will any T3 or T3/T4 with a 5 bolt turbine housing work with the boost designs manifold and downpipe?

Thanks.

Adam

[Jurand]

One more thing: I'm running a 4AN JGS feed line with a 1/16" restrictor. JGS says no restrictor is required on a non-ball bearing turbo like mine, but I decided to use one anyway. I couldn't find a definitive answer on the restrictor question but I always saw more threads with blown seals from too much oil pressure than oil starvation, so I ended up using one.

[GEO]

White smoke has nothing to do with oil. I think white whisper smoke is unburnt fuel? dude wtf, your wideband shouldn't be saying 11 AFR at idle, should be mroe liek 14-15. 15 vaccum is fine for the winter time.. It should go down once you warm it up.
Modified by GEO at 1:37 AM 1/8/2006

[pr240sx]

FYIWhite smoke = water vapor. Could be caused by water in the exhaust (normal combustion process) or a head gasket failure.Black smoke = too much fuelblue or bluish smoke = oil burning.

For the low vaccum check your lines. you could have a leak. As for the turbo, remove the downpipe and see if there any oily residue on the turbine wheel or downpipe itself.Also, at idel you should have mostly a lean mixture (not too lean!!) maybe around the 13~16 area with the engine warmed up.Check compression, use a restrictor and clean any oil you found on the cold side of the turbo.

[Jurand]

White smoke has nothing to do with oil. I think white whisper smoke is unburnt fuel? dude wtf, your wideband shouldn't be saying 11 AFR at idle, should be mroe liek 14-15. 15 vaccum is fine for the winter time.. It should go down once you warm it up.

Modified by GEO at 1:37 AM 1/8/2006

Yeah, I know it's way too rich for idle. I always thought idle should be at 14.7 just like cruizing. It seems I need to get smaller injectors if I want to use the e-manage or just get an Enthalpy ECU.

I've never heard of vacuum being lower in cold temperatures. Are you sure about that? Do you know why that is?

[Jurand]

I checked coolant and oil and they both look fine so it doesn't look like it's the headgasket. The car has been sitting for about a month and a half so maybe it is just water in the exhaust.

[Jurand]

Well, I did a compression test just now and all cylinders came out at 190psi. The plugs are fouled from running way too rich at idle, but the important thing is that the engine is fine. Looks like the turbo is definitely the problem. I cleaned up the oil in the compressor housing yesterday and today it had oil in it again after just 5 minutes of idle.

I think I will probably get 50 trim T3/T4 and an Enthalpy ECU now to get it running perfect once and for all. Can anyone help with my other question - will any garrett, turbonetics, or precision T3 turbine with a 5 bolt housing work with my BD downpipe? Basically, are all 5 bolt turbine housings the same? I searched but couldn't find the answer.

Thanks everyone.

[Chezedik]

As long as they use standard t3 flanges they will, but you may need to clock your housings. So you are replacing the turbo because of the leaks, are you selling it?

[Jurand]

I am considering my options right now, but will most likely go with a brand new T3/T4 from a reputable company to avoid any more hassles. I'll have to see if they will take my old turbo and give me a discount. If not, I will sell it.

[Chezedik]

Why not just rebuild it yourself?

[s13drft89]

How did you conclude that it was your turbo??

[Jurand]

Why not just rebuild it yourself?

I've never done it and it seems that a precision piece like that should be left to professionals. Is it really simple enough to DIY?

[Jurand]

How did you conclude that it was your turbo??

- oil in the compressor housing and on the bottom of the center section - white/gray smoke out of the tailpipe once warm- when I received the turbo it already had signs of oil on the center section and the guy (edited, sorry) I bought it from shipped it on a bottom of a big box with barely any packing material and other parts on top of it- oil and coolant look clean (not headgasket)- compression is even 190 psi across all cylinders (not piston rings)

You don't think so?
Modified by Jurand at 10:11 AM 1/9/2006

[WDRacing]

If it happenes when it's warm then its probably water. The water doesn't start to flow until the motor warms up...try this. Start car and feel the pressure line from the radiator. the water won't be flowing through, there will be some flow but not much, then the thermostat will open once the car warms up, allowing the water pump to circulate at full flow, at this time you'll able to feel water moving through the rad hose and it will be alot stiffer do to the volume of water. If it starts to smoke right around this time, then you have a water leak.

WD

[Jurand]

I already started taking some of the stuff apart. Doesn't the even compression across all cylinders indicate that the headgasket is not the problem?

[s13drft89]

I believe if you have low compression on all four cylinders, that it might be a headgasket, is "white" smoke coming from your exhaust?, what does it smell like? is your coolant low, in your over flow tank and radiator? remember the smoke symbols

White smoke = water vapor. Could be caused by water in the exhaust (normal combustion process) or a head gasket failure.Black smoke = too much fuelblue or bluish smoke = oil burning.qouted from pr240sx

[Jurand]

I guess the smoke is a white/gray color and yes, it is coming out of the exhaust. It definitely doesn't have the sweet smell of burning coolant, but more like rubber burning. The compression test came out at 190psi across the board so it's more on the high side than anything.

I think the reason why the smoke is not a blueish color is that you would get that if you were burning a lot more oil with bad rings than just some turbo oil getting through the bearing.

[s13drft89]

Actually with blown oil seals from a turbo, you can see a difference from the color, you will see "blueish blackish" from the exhauts its pretty noticable, considering that i myself have seen a turbo with blown seals.

[Chezedik]

Rebuilding one is easy, if someone knows of a software to use to retouch some photos to brighten them, then I will do a write-up.

[s13drft89]

what about balancing the shaft??, isnt that nessecary, (i have never rebuilt one before), but i heard of "you must balance it", if you can educate me please iam not the smartes with turbo rebuilds

[WDRacing]

Yeah, I'd pay for the balance.

[Chezedik]

No, it isn't necessary. But it will yield faster spool. And it is fairly inexpensive. So I will likely be doing mine. The wheels MUST be balanced though.

[s13drft89]

So i was right, huray

[pr240sx]

usually both wheels are balanced independently.You can ask for a shop to balance both wheels dynamically but is not really necessary.As for the actual rebuild, is easier than you think. you only need something to secure firmly the turbine wheel so you can remove the compressor nut.

[Chezedik]

Thank you pr, that is what I was saying in any number of posts, but everyone said I was wrong. Even called 3 different independent turbo rebuilders and was told the same thing. Too much mis-info in here sometimes. I will still get the assembly balanced, for better performance.

[WDRacing]

And snap ring pliars...

[Chezedik]

I never used them. Didn't need to, I was able to use a screwdriver. I would have but my one pair is two big. But it would have make life a lot better. And to get the shaft nut off, I used a 9/16" wrench on the turbine, and a 12 pt 7/16 on the nut. Had a friend hold when, and shazaam.

[pr240sx]

Sometimes, the nut on the shaft are secured via loctite. Some heat will help too!Beware of useing too much force on the turbine wheel. Those fins are sharp and can cut your finger in a snap!!

[WDRacing]

T3/T4 is reverse thread as well. I used an impact gun....bam...off wicked easy.

[Chezedik]

Yes, and be careful with the heat, to much heat might warp the shaft.