Yea, I know im in the wrong forum, but I just had to know, who or what, manifested the idea of hopping up 4- 6 cyl non-preformance sedans. I think its so sad to hear various import motors wizing around my neigborhood, clearly straining, tired, wornout and burned out from high revs and various failed stunts. Its all love over here, and you can bash me all you want, just a inquisitive individual wanting to look through a different prospective.
AKA,
Jamal
Were the real boys play at! http://www.corral.net http://www.stangnet.com http://www.einswine.com
$$ into import= :(
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5point0lover
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MainEvent212
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nametakennow
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Alright man, I'll give you some credit. Its obvious that you know your stuff in the domestic crowd. Problem is, you've been listening to the "no replacement for displacement" crowd too much. The replacement for displacement is low weight, turbos, etc, meaning better technology. There's a shop near here that just opened, my bro went down there (Audi A4 1.8T. makes 250lb/ft of torque with just ECU reprogramming and 2.5in exhaust) one day, and there was a supercharged 5.0 there, as well as an S13 240SX with a Redtop SR20DET dropped in. The domestic guy asked how it could be fast, so the 240 guy told him to get in the car. When they got back, the Mustang owner said "holy ****!" and they went in his Mustang for a little ride for kicks. The Mustang makes 500hp to the wheels, probably, but the 240 can actually hook up with its 220-250 (it doesn't even have an LSD and it still hooks), and its a lot lighter. Winner in a race would be the Mustang, unless he had to turn. Respect true enthusiast, no matter what they drive. And hey, I bet you wouldn't **** with a Porsche 911 Turbo.
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Cold_Zero
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2005 Nissan Pathfinder
5point0lover-Welcome to NICO.
I can see some validity of what you are saying but the same can be said for your beloved Mustangs. It is a travesty to see a 6 cylinder Mustang rolling down the street with a big wing, decals and a fart pipe. Dont get me wrong, I dont mind seeing the nice Cobra or Saleen Mustangs we have at work.
Though, there is something to be said about a Eagle Talon that pulls on a '03 Cobra. One of the techs at the local Mitsu dealership raced another tech at the dealership and claimed he won. Even though I was not there, I have seen him at IRP run times on a blown head gasket that would compete with a '03 Cobra.
I can see some validity of what you are saying but the same can be said for your beloved Mustangs. It is a travesty to see a 6 cylinder Mustang rolling down the street with a big wing, decals and a fart pipe. Dont get me wrong, I dont mind seeing the nice Cobra or Saleen Mustangs we have at work.
Though, there is something to be said about a Eagle Talon that pulls on a '03 Cobra. One of the techs at the local Mitsu dealership raced another tech at the dealership and claimed he won. Even though I was not there, I have seen him at IRP run times on a blown head gasket that would compete with a '03 Cobra.
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5point0lover
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I chose to go nowhere. As far as being close minded, thats why I am here, please anyone shead some light on my ignorance to imports or should I say non-Amercian cars. And yes I am fully aware of non U.S cars that make astronomical amounts of H.P like skylines. But the money you pay for that you could get a 1987 Grand National that is just as fast if not faster and still have enough money to have for a down payment on a house.
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nametakennow
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Except the Grand National has a bunch more miles. The GT-R AWD system would beat it to hell anyway. And the true enthusiast doesn't care how much it costs him, he does it out of love for the cars. Its nice to be able to drive your car everyday, and take it to the track and do more than just drag race, it takes more skill to turn.
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5point0lover
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To kamin:
Actualy I do "respect a fast car for a fast car." I Just wanted to prick the minds of various "non domestic" racing enthusiast.
AkA,
Jamal
AkA,
Jamal
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Cold_Zero
- Posts: 6714
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2005 Nissan Pathfinder
Agreed.If you wanted a cheap horsepower car, a turbo Buick or an older Mustang or Camaro is one way to go. I personally have a few problems with this route. Where I am from, Mustangs and Camaros are a dime a dozen. I prefer to be a little different. Also, there is more to going fast than doing it in a straight line. When you get out on a road course, these are not the types of cars that you see people driving. I like not having to pay to feed a very hungry V-8. Even though my turbo 4 eats plenty of gas, I can keep off the turbo and maintain some sense of fuel economy.
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5point0lover
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to: nametakennow
Actualy I do have my eyes set on a 2001 911 gt2 (yellow)if you know what that is. But the dilemma is, I can send my child through college with that kind of money.
AkA,Jamal
AkA,Jamal
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5point0lover
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2003 5:07 pm
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none
Thanks fellas for keeping a civillized discussion, I will continue to learn and debate very shortly from now, as I need to run a few aarons.
AkA,
Jama
AkA,
Jama
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MaineExport
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Some of us prefer the styling, quality, fit and finish, reliability, resale value, and class of owning an import. Not to say that these things can't be found in a domestic car... but it is OUR preference.
I will say.... from my experience..... for the money, you CAN NOT find a domestic that will hold up to most imports in regard to quality of build and construction. Japanese cars, especially, hold their value for a LOT of reasons. Not the least of which are reliability and overall quality. I have driven a Mustang with 15,000 miles on the ticker... and the car was basically spent. It rattled, shook, and felt like junk.
In the end... drive what you like... modify what you like... leave me alone and I'll leave you alone. I respect car enthusiasts of all types.
I will say.... from my experience..... for the money, you CAN NOT find a domestic that will hold up to most imports in regard to quality of build and construction. Japanese cars, especially, hold their value for a LOT of reasons. Not the least of which are reliability and overall quality. I have driven a Mustang with 15,000 miles on the ticker... and the car was basically spent. It rattled, shook, and felt like junk.
In the end... drive what you like... modify what you like... leave me alone and I'll leave you alone. I respect car enthusiasts of all types.
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nametakennow
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It's very simple, any car can be fast, you just have to want to make it fast. Its not about how fast a car with how few a mods you can use, its about how great of a car you can make overall. Some of us like to drag, some like to drift, and some like to autoX, you just have to know what you want to do and make a car that can do it.
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AZhitman
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Good work, gentlemen. I'm continually impressed by our ability to remain civil in these situations.
Some things no one mentioned is fit and finish and longevity. Jamal, I'm rolling a pristine 95 Q45t, roughly 280hp, 32v DOHC all-aluminum 4.5l V8 with mild suspension mods... 100K miles, but it's almost always mistaken for a 2-year old car.
The majority of members on this site have, or know someone who has, a Nissan (or Toy or Honduh) with 200K, 250K, even 300K miles, and they still run strong and don't use a drop of oil. Not gonna happen with the domestics. Sure, there are some rare instances, but most GM/Ford V-8s hit 150K and it's byebye compression. (BTW, the 91 5.0 LX is one of my favorite cars) I've always said the 'stang has one of the world's best powerplants and drivetrains in one of the world's crappiest cars.
Fit and finish is another area people consider. Quality of the interior materials, body panel gap uniformity, paint quality, etc. All strengths of the import world.
So certainly the domestics give the most hp per dollar in many instances. But some folks want more, and that's what they get here.
Hope this helps, and welcome to NICO!
Some things no one mentioned is fit and finish and longevity. Jamal, I'm rolling a pristine 95 Q45t, roughly 280hp, 32v DOHC all-aluminum 4.5l V8 with mild suspension mods... 100K miles, but it's almost always mistaken for a 2-year old car.
The majority of members on this site have, or know someone who has, a Nissan (or Toy or Honduh) with 200K, 250K, even 300K miles, and they still run strong and don't use a drop of oil. Not gonna happen with the domestics. Sure, there are some rare instances, but most GM/Ford V-8s hit 150K and it's byebye compression. (BTW, the 91 5.0 LX is one of my favorite cars) I've always said the 'stang has one of the world's best powerplants and drivetrains in one of the world's crappiest cars.
Fit and finish is another area people consider. Quality of the interior materials, body panel gap uniformity, paint quality, etc. All strengths of the import world.
So certainly the domestics give the most hp per dollar in many instances. But some folks want more, and that's what they get here.
Hope this helps, and welcome to NICO!
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MaineExport
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Re: To kamin:
yea i apologize about that earlier reply i COMPLETLEY misread your post5point0lover wrote:Actualy I do "respect a fast car for a fast car." I Just wanted to prick the minds of various "non domestic" racing enthusiast.
AkA,
Jamal
i guess inhailing driveway cleaner and exhaust fumes all day will do thatActually......just for fun...i thought i'd tell ya...my brother has raced MANY 911 turbos....and beat them allll over the track....and guess what he is driving? a 1990 GSX eclipse...ever heard of one? not too many out there any more....they have a 2.0 litre inline 4 cilinder that is turbocharged and it has AWD.....he is producing 500+ HP and is running a boost of 24 PSI....his 0-60 time is around 3.0 seconds or less....and peronsally....I HATE MUSTANGS
well, i'd love to own an old 240sx that looks crappy, and put an sr20det in there and take out domestic v8s. Crushing the V8 guys ego would actually be preaty fun in an old import. But, I don't know what your saying about the non performance oriented v6 sedans. The brand new mustang GT with a 4.6L engine makes, what 260hp? Nissan's V6 maxima (non performance oriented ofcourse:rolleyes ) makes 255hp, 5 less then ford's new v8. The infiniti G35 makes 280hp from a V6, more than ford's new v8. So which is the non performance oriented, dated car?
Anyway i'm sure a buick GN yields the highest HP per $$ out there, but it isn't always about HP. (remember this - "you get what you pay for")
I too hate honda civics with 30 foot wings and stock mufflers with 10 inch tips, but there also are plenty of domestic rice cars out there with exhaust tips, wings, and neons.
I like the old fastback mustangs, but the new ones have to much plastic (and stupid drivers) inside.
Anyway i'm sure a buick GN yields the highest HP per $$ out there, but it isn't always about HP. (remember this - "you get what you pay for")
I too hate honda civics with 30 foot wings and stock mufflers with 10 inch tips, but there also are plenty of domestic rice cars out there with exhaust tips, wings, and neons.
I like the old fastback mustangs, but the new ones have to much plastic (and stupid drivers) inside.
Domestics are all good if you like going straight. Straight can be fun for you know 5-16 seconds...but being able to actually take a road coarse, that is infinitly better to me and most people that drive performance imports. And you can't say a N/A I-4 making 200+ rwhp is not a performance car. Right now I am talking about Nissan, but there are a number of Honda and Toyota tuners who do incredible things with small engines.
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Rockenreno
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Another thing I see many failed to mention is handling. While there are a few good domestics in terms of handling (vette, etc) most handle like poop (camaro, mustang) compared to the average import sports car (240sx, for example). In a straight line the american muscle comes out on top most of the time because of the displacement, but when you get to the twisties it all goes out the window and over the cliff.
Now with modification, any car can become fast in a straight line or handle well, but in stock form domestics generally have more straight line power, but imports get the handling and gas mileage with better suspension, lighter weights/better weight distro, and smaller engines.
One reason many people put money into the imports is because they are pretty cheap and reliable, so its hard to mess up mommy's car too much.
It's good to see you want to learn more about this. I know I was into domestics before I learned about the 240sx and fell in love
Now with modification, any car can become fast in a straight line or handle well, but in stock form domestics generally have more straight line power, but imports get the handling and gas mileage with better suspension, lighter weights/better weight distro, and smaller engines.
One reason many people put money into the imports is because they are pretty cheap and reliable, so its hard to mess up mommy's car too much.
It's good to see you want to learn more about this. I know I was into domestics before I learned about the 240sx and fell in love
has anyone ever tried to buy a RUNNING Buick GN that isn't worn out for less than $4k? The automatic trans in those cars (200-4r) was the worst ever! the GM 10 bolt can't handle big power either. It has huge potential, but so do most imports. 5.0s are played out, over done and dated looking. my 240, $1700 running strong with 130K. Try and find a decent 5.0 that a teenager hasn't f*ed up for that price.
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JESTER
- Posts: 3266
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Well, as usuall, I have to add my 2 cents.
I was a domestic driver. And I never had anything but problems with them. I was Chevy all the way. But then I bought a Nissan Sentra that was totally ragged out. I mean I pay $200 for a car that had been put through more hell than I can tell you. And it just kept on going. Just like my Toyota Tacoma. It is like the Energizer Bunny. Not to mention my mothers car, which I drive on a rare occasion, Subaru Legacy. It is another great car. All wheel drive has to be one of the greatest things.
My point is, I lost all faith in domestics. I will only buy Nissan, Toyota, or Subaru (or 2nd gen RX7's). It was probally just bad luck, that is all I have.
Lets do a little comparison. Apzak through out some of these numbers.... The 2003 Mustang GT, 4.6l v8, 260 hp. Not to bad. The 390 of the SVT is better, but for this comparison we will use the GT. Now take the 2003 Nissan Maxima, 3.5l 255hp. Heck, take the 3.0l V-tech Accord (yes I hate Honda, too), it makes 240 hp. The third Gen RX7 made 255hp, with 1.3l. Not to mention the MKIV Supra, 320hp with 3.0l. How about the WRX. AWD, 4 door, and some in station wagon. And if you lay hands on the STi version, you get 300hp.{The family cars is what I really wanted you to look at.}
I am not trying to offend, just point out a few numbers for you to ref. The standard 240sx has 155 hp. Pretty low. But you figure, if you know what you are doing, you can turbo the KA24DE for under $2000 and get a fairly reliable 240rwhp on a car that handles extremly well. Not to mention about engine swaps. SR20, CA18, RB20, RB25, RB26, or even, the American V8's. A certain member has had a very good time with his LT1 conversion.
But for me, I say it is taking a car that is not fast and making it fast. Taking something that isn't suppose to do that, and make it do that. All I have to say is go out and drive a nice turbo car. The feel of it, when that boost kicks in, OH, HELL YEAH!
As far as what we refer to as ricers: The cars with loud exhaust, unpainted or just plain ugly body work, metal wings, and a bunch of stickers. Well, that is a life style. Not one that most of us here in NICO chose, but hey, what ever floats their boat. We know and understand you domestic guys consider us all as ricers because we drive imports. That is fine, we understand.
Anyway, I love a good debate. Welcome to the site. If we can be of any help, let us know. Again, I hope I didn't offend in anyway, if so, that was not my intention. Just trying to give you some reference information.
I was a domestic driver. And I never had anything but problems with them. I was Chevy all the way. But then I bought a Nissan Sentra that was totally ragged out. I mean I pay $200 for a car that had been put through more hell than I can tell you. And it just kept on going. Just like my Toyota Tacoma. It is like the Energizer Bunny. Not to mention my mothers car, which I drive on a rare occasion, Subaru Legacy. It is another great car. All wheel drive has to be one of the greatest things.
My point is, I lost all faith in domestics. I will only buy Nissan, Toyota, or Subaru (or 2nd gen RX7's). It was probally just bad luck, that is all I have.
Lets do a little comparison. Apzak through out some of these numbers.... The 2003 Mustang GT, 4.6l v8, 260 hp. Not to bad. The 390 of the SVT is better, but for this comparison we will use the GT. Now take the 2003 Nissan Maxima, 3.5l 255hp. Heck, take the 3.0l V-tech Accord (yes I hate Honda, too), it makes 240 hp. The third Gen RX7 made 255hp, with 1.3l. Not to mention the MKIV Supra, 320hp with 3.0l. How about the WRX. AWD, 4 door, and some in station wagon. And if you lay hands on the STi version, you get 300hp.{The family cars is what I really wanted you to look at.}
I am not trying to offend, just point out a few numbers for you to ref. The standard 240sx has 155 hp. Pretty low. But you figure, if you know what you are doing, you can turbo the KA24DE for under $2000 and get a fairly reliable 240rwhp on a car that handles extremly well. Not to mention about engine swaps. SR20, CA18, RB20, RB25, RB26, or even, the American V8's. A certain member has had a very good time with his LT1 conversion.
But for me, I say it is taking a car that is not fast and making it fast. Taking something that isn't suppose to do that, and make it do that. All I have to say is go out and drive a nice turbo car. The feel of it, when that boost kicks in, OH, HELL YEAH!
As far as what we refer to as ricers: The cars with loud exhaust, unpainted or just plain ugly body work, metal wings, and a bunch of stickers. Well, that is a life style. Not one that most of us here in NICO chose, but hey, what ever floats their boat. We know and understand you domestic guys consider us all as ricers because we drive imports. That is fine, we understand.
Anyway, I love a good debate. Welcome to the site. If we can be of any help, let us know. Again, I hope I didn't offend in anyway, if so, that was not my intention. Just trying to give you some reference information.
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Jeff Williams
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2000 Infiniti I30t
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71, 72, 73, 82 & 2000 Corvettes - Contact:
Great thread.
Here in Alabaster, my wife and I have a saying "Mustang, the official car of Alabaster" Its not that we don't like the cars, but about 20% of all the traffic, is Mustangs.
Actually, I am looking for an '87 convertible 5.0 (had a '84, and loved it - lots of fun in the rain)
My dream car is a Factory Five MKII '65 Cobra replica, with a SVT 351 crate engine. I have a special account at the bank, just to save the money. $12,000 for the kit, $8,000 for the motor/trans, $3,000 for independent rear suspension, brakes, paint, etc., and about 500 hours build time. Then, I have a car nothing under $75,000, can touch, 1/4 mile, circle track, or road course.
Until then, I'll stick to my 10 year old V8 Q45 RWD, that will do 150 MPH+, without breathing hard, and rides like a dream.
Here in Alabaster, my wife and I have a saying "Mustang, the official car of Alabaster" Its not that we don't like the cars, but about 20% of all the traffic, is Mustangs.
Actually, I am looking for an '87 convertible 5.0 (had a '84, and loved it - lots of fun in the rain)
My dream car is a Factory Five MKII '65 Cobra replica, with a SVT 351 crate engine. I have a special account at the bank, just to save the money. $12,000 for the kit, $8,000 for the motor/trans, $3,000 for independent rear suspension, brakes, paint, etc., and about 500 hours build time. Then, I have a car nothing under $75,000, can touch, 1/4 mile, circle track, or road course.
Until then, I'll stick to my 10 year old V8 Q45 RWD, that will do 150 MPH+, without breathing hard, and rides like a dream.
I live in south mississippi and have all my teeth. Therefore i drive an import... Just Joking!
i drive imports for 2 reasons
1: I like high RPM power and not all import motor have to straign to make that power. Sure a B16 redlines at 8k which some might consider straigning but there are 1,500 RPM more that the motor could easily handle internals wise. It was also fun running with the local 5.0 guys in my CRX. I was about mid pack with them and they all loved the CRX. "Smallest damn thing i've ever seen..." said the new guy "go run it... " said an old hat. I wouldn't always win or loose but i would usually shock the hell out of the guy i was running.
2: My reason for doing an import is that i don't have the $$ to do a domestic like i want. See i have a dream (don't laugh)
I want a fox body LX 5.0 vert with a 5spd. Any color will do. It has to be so cherry. Like perfectly straight body and interior. I wanna be able to rap the motor to at least 8k (more is better) and run 11.99 on the street. Until i can afford that i just can't have a domestic.
i drive imports for 2 reasons
1: I like high RPM power and not all import motor have to straign to make that power. Sure a B16 redlines at 8k which some might consider straigning but there are 1,500 RPM more that the motor could easily handle internals wise. It was also fun running with the local 5.0 guys in my CRX. I was about mid pack with them and they all loved the CRX. "Smallest damn thing i've ever seen..." said the new guy "go run it... " said an old hat. I wouldn't always win or loose but i would usually shock the hell out of the guy i was running.
2: My reason for doing an import is that i don't have the $$ to do a domestic like i want. See i have a dream (don't laugh)
I want a fox body LX 5.0 vert with a 5spd. Any color will do. It has to be so cherry. Like perfectly straight body and interior. I wanna be able to rap the motor to at least 8k (more is better) and run 11.99 on the street. Until i can afford that i just can't have a domestic.