Infinti M is for Misery

[mannacio]

Since all of you are enthusiasts this won't be a popular post. Don't get me wrong: I love cars that have excellent acceleration and good handling. (Though better mileage would be nice.) My gripe is Nissan of North America and their reluctance to do warranty repairs. here are my experiences:

My M35 Bluetooth would not synch with AT&T 8525. First Nissan refused to fix it though it froze my entire console. They said it wasn't on their list of phones. Bluetooth is a trademark a company can ONLY use if its devices are interoperable with others. Failure to comply is a violation of the trademark. Then Nissan relented and after 4 tries finally fixed the problem.

Recently the A/C Condenser was struck by a stone. The car was under warranty but they refused to cover it. Damage by stone chips is an exclusion. Understandable for paint damage but if they design a grill only for air flow, not to protect the condenser that is a design defect.

And their voice recognition, for telephone numbers may be the worst in the world.

So, on the face of it, the M35 may look like a nice car and be fun to drive but God forbid you have to deal with Nissan for warranty repairs. Of the Japanese car manufacturers they are, no doubt, the worst to deal with. Buy at your own risk!

[MinisterofDOOM]

Have you actually dealt with NNA or Infiniti Corporate or just an individual dealer?

[mcrews]

Since all of you are enthusiasts this won't be a popular post. Don't get me wrong: I love cars that have excellent acceleration and good handling. (Though better mileage would be nice.) My gripe is Nissan of North America and their reluctance to do warranty repairs. here are my experiences:

My M35 Bluetooth would not synch with AT&T 8525. First Nissan refused to fix it though it froze my entire console. They said it wasn't on their list of phones. Bluetooth is a trademark a company can ONLY use if its devices are interoperable with others. Failure to comply is a violation of the trademark. Then Nissan relented and after 4 tries finally fixed the problem.

Recently the A/C Condenser was struck by a stone. The car was under warranty but they refused to cover it. Damage by stone chips is an exclusion. Understandable for paint damage but if they design a grill only for air flow, not to protect the condenser that is a design defect.

And their voice recognition, for telephone numbers may be the worst in the world.

So, on the face of it, the M35 may look like a nice car and be fun to drive but God forbid you have to deal with Nissan for warranty repairs. Of the Japanese car manufacturers they are, no doubt, the worst to deal with. Buy at your own risk!

wow....."My gripe is Nissan of North America and their reluctance to do warranty repairs" makes you wonder why the even build dealerships????!!!! Infiniti M35 Nissian Maxima Infiniti M35......and you aren't going to the Infiniti dealer why??????? Niello Infiniti in Concord offers the best service. They are great

And lucky all of us tha own Infinitis.....we dont have to deal with Nissan.Maybe you should go buy an altima and take it to the Infiniti dealer.

[mannacio]

Surely you know Nissan owns Infiniti. So, if you want to escalate a warranty issue that Infiniti's phone robots won't budge on you have to go to Nissan North America management in Tennessee. Going to the Infiniti delaer doesn't get you warranty service, that has to be approved. I would take the M35 to my Infiniti dealer if the warranty was being honored. But since it isn't it doesn't matter how great they are or Niello is. I don't want to give them the business.

[mannacio]

All of the above. They are immovable.

[mcrews]

you are an idiot.

of course we all know who owns infiniti.

I had several situations that could have caused me a great deal of frustration and they bent over backwards to resolve the issue.

every group of people has its bell curve. 80% fall in the norm and 20% fall outside. You fall outside. I drive from sacramento, past several other closer Infiniti dealerships, to let Niello Infiniti take care of me.Thank God I wasnt as 'smart' as you. Yeah, I had a crappy experience at Roseville Infiniti. But I didn't sit in front of the dealership and say " fix it or else" like a spoiled brat. YOur statement "But since it isn't it doesn't matter how great they are or Niello is. I don't want to give them the business." speaks volumes about your attitude to start with. You even type cast 'all of us" Since all of you are enthusiasts this won't be a popular post. in your first sentence. You don't want help, you just want to b****.Try reading the posts under the dealer section......there are good posts and bad posts......upppppsssss......those damn enthusiasts arent walking in lock step.!!!!!! Twice, my service rep called me before I came in for an appontment, to let me know that they were holding an M as my loaner car. Not a G, an M. Yeah, those damn phone robots really suck.....

[mannacio]

There's nothing wrong with my dealership and they loaned me an M too while waiting to hear if it would be covered as a warranty repair. My point was that the dealer can't force Nissan to cover the repair as a warranty repair whoever that dealer is. They can advocate for you, which my dealer did, but that's all. And even if you bought the car from them they won't pay for it themselves. Now the Robots I was talking at are not at the dealership they're at Infiniti's 800 number. These are simply phone answerers that take your case information, go by the book, and have no power to do anything. If you want to appeal, you have to appeal to Nissan. I don't know why you feel offended by my posting. Certainly no offense was intended and, by the way, neither Mensa nor MIT considered me an idiot.

[mebtsb]

You can't be serious. You think the company should cover rocks hitting your car?? I guess that would be great, I wish they would fix it too

[InfinitiMe]

I'm sure it's been said but did it occur to you while writing this that your complaints are about Nissan, and not really the M?

Sorry for your experience but not sure what this has to do with the car, other than your distaste for the phone recognition.

So, yes, it does look a nice car (both on the outside and inside) and it is fun to drive. You're right.

[mannacio]

You oversimplified it. I don't expect them to pay for rocks hitting the outside of the car: paint, glass or trim. Bit if a rick gets past the grill it's because of poor design. Consider this, every car has an air filter for the engine. If it didn't the engine would be damaged frequently. No one would put up with that. They couldn't get away with saying that dust is "an environmental factor" so it's not their fault. So why should they be allowed to get away with this? They know how to keep stones out of the engine compartment just as much as they know how to keep dust out of the air feeding the injectors. Oh, and if it weren't for Ralph Nader then if a stone hit your gas tank it would puncture and possibly explode (just as in a collision). I think someone has to keep them honest.

[mannacio]

You are absolutely right. My comments ARE about Nissan, and when you buy a car the treatment you get from the company is important (to me anyway). As a company Acura treated me much better, but the dealership was the pits. If I still had an Acura then the advice one of the other people who responded gave about being willing to travel to Neillo Infiniti would apply to that Acura. In fact, I noticed the a versopn of the new Acura TL has over 300 hp with a 3.7 liter engine, does 0-60 in 6 seconds and gets gas mileage as good as the M35. It's also slightly less expensive. I also looked at Acura's warranty booklet and didn't see anything about exclusions for stones. Now the Acura does have a slightly smaller trunk which made a difference to me two years ago when my mother was still well enough to visit us. But given that I know Acura's handling is just as good as Infiniti, if I had it to do over again I'd get the TL today. The cars, I think, are comparable. The companies are wrolds apart.

[ken in az]

You oversimplified it. I don't expect them to pay for rocks hitting the outside of the car: paint, glass or trim. Bit if a rick gets past the grill it's because of poor design. Consider this, every car has an air filter for the engine. If it didn't the engine would be damaged frequently. No one would put up with that. They couldn't get away with saying that dust is "an environmental factor" so it's not their fault. So why should they be allowed to get away with this? They know how to keep stones out of the engine compartment just as much as they know how to keep dust out of the air feeding the injectors. Oh, and if it weren't for Ralph Nader then if a stone hit your gas tank it would puncture and possibly explode (just as in a collision). I think someone has to keep them honest.

Seriously, a rock hit your car and you want infiniti to warranty it? sorry, I haven't had a good chuckle in a while.

Ahh geez - i'm still laughing...hold on.....nope still going.....ok

Seriously? I have heard of some silly stuff, but come on, Man up and fix "YOUR" car. Is Infiniti/Nissan supposed to install a radar tracking system for rock collision avoidance? How else is the condenser going to cool, it's an Air to Liquid heat exchanger which requires "Air" to cool the refridgerent in the AC system. It's just like a radiator and needs airflow for it to do it's job. What you are suggesting that the build something in front of it to stop rocks, which would also block the airflow.

I say it's your fault for hitting the rock, following too close to a gravel truck, or whatever it was, Infiniti/Nissan is definitey not responsible for it.

[insert joe dirt movie quote]"Dang"[insert joe dirt movie quote"\b]

[Double E]

I'm likewise not buying the stone in the grill thing being covered as warranty....

Can you prove it was a stone or was it a piece of brick or concrete? (would it matter? To the manufacturer, you might just as well have bumped against a curb with a piece or rebar sticking out of it?

How would you have a "leg to stand on" at all in saying that this is Infiniti's problem?

Even if they were theroretically responsible, how would a company quantify such damage? By size of stone? How does the consumer document what it was made up of? Did you hit it at 10mph or 70mph? Did it come from another car or did you follow a dumptruck too close?

What would the specs of the grill have to be made of to cover such variables to your satisfaction?

Exactly what would the "covered" debris qualifier look like to you ...if you ran Infiniti?

It sounds like you have an insurance claim and not a warranty claim as no one is going to make a grill or any other part of a car to withstand various debris impact scenarios and at any given speed, made up of any material.

At best, you might get a "goodwill" fix from the dealer, but if so, from an Infiniti dealer at which you have formed a solid and friendly relationship with ...and even then, you probably should have filed an insurance claim as this sort of stuff is what insurance is for.

The other stuff, that sucks, yes, but others have had issues with the bluetooth phone and I believe there are known work-arounds and fixes. For phone dialing issues, that's a reasonable beef ....but given the rest of the car and what it offers, one can just get used to stuff like that and (individually) keep that feature on the top of the list for evaluating the next vehicle to be purchased.

[InfinitiMe]

I understand what you're saying but I can't fathom that any company would honor a warranty for this reason. I mean the grill probably stops 98% of foreign objects but once in a while something can get in. This is true for any automobile.

And by the way I do like the performance of the new TL but god is that thing ugly. From every angle. I don't know what Acura was thinking. Not sure if the excessive chrome on the front and back are an option but if it is it should stop being one, and the clear tail lights with the chrome bezels and the same on the fog lights...it looks like someone went on a shopping spree at Trak Auto or something. I would not trade my M with 30,000 miles for a brand new one of those. Actually, I would, but then I'd immediately sell it and buy another M.

[mannacio]

First, if you read some of the other posts you'll note that there already exist mesh grill add-ons. They can be added either to the top grill opening, the bottom, or both. Granted their not pretty and would be more inobtrusive on the inside, but radar is certainly not required. There are also other designs such as to sets of oouvers going in opposite directions. Think of Venetian blinds with the front blinds having its louvers slanted down and the blinds just behind it with louvers facing up. No radar, and no stones to get through either. Plenty of air-flow, and no appearance problem. You think they don't know how to do this? Of course they do. So what's the big gap for? Don't you believe they need it for air. The only thing it sucks in is money.

[mannacio]

Now you're sounding like a lawyer for Nissan. Why should I have to proved what caused the damage? If the owner had to do that for every warranty repair it would be like not having a warranty. How about this: Can Nissan prove that one of the mechanics didn't hit the condenser grill with a sharp tool the last time I brought the car in for service? If no one can prove what the cause is then who should bear the burden of the cost? The owner? Some warranty. And if the probable causes could have been prevented by the manufacturer why shouldn't they be liable. Remember Firestone?

[ken in az]

Now you're sounding like a lawyer for Nissan. Why should I have to proved what caused the damage? If the owner had to do that for every warranty repair it would be like not having a warranty. How about this: Can Nissan prove that one of the mechanics didn't hit the condenser grill with a sharp tool the last time I brought the car in for service? If no one can prove what the cause is then who should bear the burden of the cost? The owner? Some warranty. And if the probable causes could have been prevented by the manufacturer why shouldn't they be liable. Remember Firestone?

You take the cake man. I honestly have no response to that. Your reasoning is so far beyond my comprehension that I am speechless so I must resort to movie lines.....

"Mr. Madison, what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

[qship96]

This is America, if you think you have a case {you dont} sue them, otherwise pay for the repair and quit whining. Maybe a Schwinn bicycle would be a better means of transportation for you??/

[tytamto]

I feel you pain mannacio. Life sucks. s*** happens.

Neither Infiniti, nor Nissan should be responsible for covering non-manufacturing defects under their warranty. Your car sustained a little damage from a foreign object; it was not caused by a faulty part - neither grill, nor the condenser. You said it yourself, the damage was caused by A STONE, and not by Infiniti or Nissan.

If you are able to locate the stone, just file a suit against it in a small claims court. The stone should be held responsible for its negligent act.

But honestly, if you do not want to pay for it yourself, file a claim with your insurance - you pay them for a reason - and this is a good enough one to ask for some cash back.

Did you forget that time is money, my friend. And if both MIT and Mensa really recognized your genius, congrats to you. But wasting time on chasing this nonsense problem is not the smartest thing you have done. Time=money, so stop wasting it, and pay the piper.

If you want to stop this from happening again, install a DIY rock blocker inside your grill. As an engineer and a Mensa graduate, it should not take you long to design and build one

[tytamto]

"Mr. Madison, what you just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul."

[mannacio]

I can't say I've seen Billy Madison but "may God have mercy on your soul" used to be the judges utterance before a hanging. I didn't know it had come to that.

[mannacio]

A small claims court suit has crossed my mind and I've spoken to Harvard Law school graduate about it. But, first things first. I did file a complaint with the BBB and California Department of Consumer Affairs. If I had sued I couldn't use their services but if they cannot help I still can sue if I chose to.

You're probably right about a Schwin bicycle, though. I could take off lots of weight that way and the cooling would take place without any condenser at all.

[Double E]

It did come to that for Billy Madison and I feel pretty good that the quote was for illustration. Your situation of pursuit of warranty coverage for hitting a stone is an excecise in futility.

If I slam my car into a stationary wall, is that warranty too? If I slam my car into a stationary stone on the road that enters my condensing unit, what's the difference?

The people behind the desk got a decent laugh from that attempt I imagine, but I suppose it doesn't hurt to ask. Worst they can say to you is No, what they said after you left was probably much more colorful.

Still you gots ballz for asking anyway I suppose.

[mannacio]

Sue a stone. Now that rocks!

Seriously, though, you think I should have to design and build my own rick blocker? So where do Nissan's responsibilities end and mine begin? I'm not asking for a car that flies, though some think I drive that way. And why did Firestone and Ford get taken to the cleaners when the tread failed? There might even have been stones on those roads. Or the tires could have been under inflated and overheated. And when the tread came off those lousy drivers made all the wrong moves. They would panic and hit the brakes then over correct when the car swerved causing their SUVs to turn over. That was all their fault then. Or maybe not. It's just that people take more notice when there are deaths involved. But the design flaws for Firestone were also errors of omission not errors of commission. What you don't do to protect people or property can be just as much a defect as when you do something and it doesn't work properly.

[mannacio]

Obviously you believe in the theory or relativity - all motion is relative - so stone hits car or car hits wall is all the same. In physics, maybe. But you have to make a driving error to hit a wall but not for a stone to hit the car. If you are completely relativistic it gets to be like the reasons one of the girls in Chicago gives for not being guilty of murder. "He ran into my knife. He ran into my knife ten times!" If I had had an accident I wouldn't exppect Nissan to pay and if a stone bounced up and hit my windshield I wouldn't expect them to pay. But when there's this great big hole under the license plate that will let anything in that's a defect. It's like making seat belts out of paper. You know they're going to break and there you could argue the guy had an accident which was his fault why is he blaming us just because his head hit the dashboard. No, I think Nissan bears responsibility when it creates a situation where damage or injury was avoidable and not even expensive to prevent.

[M45Runner]

OMG, where are you from - Mars?

When ALL car manufacturer build cars, they know that if you get into a serious accident (T-boned by an 18 wheeler), you will get serious injured and they are still making cars - are they nuts?

A plane could crash if they get hit by a bird (if the bird is big enough and at the right angle) and they are still not taking actions to fix it and what is worst, they still sell them and let people fly with them - it is obvious that is manufacturer defect - just like when the rock hit your condenser and broke it. Although it is a rare case, but it could happen and the manufacturer is responsible for it.

[Double E]

So where does the stone become too big to be reasonably covered by warranty?Seriously...put yourself in the position of running the company or at least in making such decisions, ...would YOU cover stones or other items hitting the car you sold to a consumer that you cannot also duplicate, verify or quantify with repeatable results or do you just toss out a statement that says "we'll cover the accidents that may happen to your car, any speed, any road, any reason".

As for Firestone, people were seriously injured or killed in that situation because the tire manufacturer had a poor design and quality control combined with a sub-par specification of tire by the vehicle manufacturer and is an apples/oranges comparison to the stone that hits the front of a car.

Sort of like having a stint inserted into your heart and then one day you get hit by a line drive in the chest at a baseball game. You knew what was possible by going to the game...is the stint at fault, the baseball player or are you?

Put into more practical terms, you have a car with a condensing unit, you drive on the road, a rick hits the condensing unit and it fails. Blame who?

The paper seatbelts analogy is ridiculous in that they ARE covered by manufacturing standards, (NHTSA) are tested and even have points of failure at which are repeatable.

Mensa. ...OK

Modified by Double E at 7:05 PM 4/24/2009
Modified by Double E at 7:06 PM 4/24/2009

[SteveTheTech]

I don't know where you are taking your car for service. Here is what you agreed to when you bought this car.

OBTAINING WARRANTY SERVICE• You must take the vehicle to an authorized Infinitidealer in the United States or Canada during regularbusiness hours at your expense in order toobtain warranty service. The names and addressesof authorized Infiniti dealers are listed in telephonedirectories.

As mentioned above that is indeed what you pay insurance for. It says several times in the warranty manual that rock chips are not covered under warranty, as the definition used for warranty for this matter is coverage for mechanical defect or workmanship. The same would apply if the rock were a foot in either direction and it broke the glass lens on your fog light. You mentioned that there should be something that protects the engine from rock. The short answer is yes, it's the condenser and if you were to hit a stick and it went through your radiator and maybe if you were going fast enough it could shred the belt and cause all kinds of damage. None of which is warrantable.

If your phone does not have the required Bluetooth connectivity software it just will not connect with your car. Check the link below, I was going to help you out but you did not provide any manufacturer information on your phone. Infiniti Consumer Affairs division will do whatever needs to be done to resolve your concerns, many owners here can testify to that. Although you may be frustrated now, and I do not know what the issue with your A/V system was determined to be, whether it is your phone, or a fault in the system. Replacing of audio control or Bluetooth units happens quite frequently as the radios control many functions and a fault in any segment of the system determined to be originating from the Audio Control Unit (if equipped with Nav) or separate Bluetooth unit (w/o Nav) it would be replaced without issue. I think we are lacking a few small tidbits of information to make an informed outside analysis of the rationality of your situation.

To take some perspective on this, if Infiniti had to buy every part that was working perfectly fine until some sort of foreign material interrupted it's operation, in this case it happened to be a stone. All cars have the ability to be damaged from many environmental hazards, if your Acura picked up a rock in such a manner would they cover it? My follow up question is; Would they cover it if you had the same attitude and incorrect information?

http://www.infinitiusa.com/blu...tooth

[mannacio]

I'm afraid I don't have any practical solutions to override the laws of physics when an 18 wheeler hits a car and jet engine manufacturers actually DO configure the intake to lower the probability of a bird strike taking down a plane. Some risk is, of course, unavoidable and no engineering will correct that at any price. An open hole below the license plate doesn't fall into this category. It's not only a problem that can be solved, it's a problem that can be easily solved. It's not that Nissan can't do this, and cheaply too. It's that they don't want to do this. After all, every condenser they sell is another $400 in their cash register even though the part costs them less than 25% of that.

[mannacio]

The size of the stone isn't the issue at all. No I'm not suggesting you could be warrantied against an avalanche. The issue is did you leave the door open, or did you lock it. If you left the door open it's no surporse if someone steals from you. If you locked it then, at least, you tried to protect yourself from being stolen from. Nissan has a big open hole under the license plate. They left the door open. They made no attempt at all to protect the engine compartment. This is what I would call negligence. If they had any reasonable protection and a stone broke through it I would have no complaint at all. But I think it is quite possible this omission was deliberate. After all, they get $400 every time they sell a new condenser and it costs them perhaps 25% of that. So, if they leave the door open who gets stolen from. I guess that's me.