Ignition misfire trouble shooting

[Darius]

I am trying to get this thing running right after all the upgrades I did this winter and I'm having an issue with cylinder #2. Here's what I've tested, the results of each test so far and why I think it's #2:

TESTS1) Car is stumbling at idle like it is missing 90% of the time and running pig rich (AFR=9.5). How else do I know? Fuel is dripping out of my v-band flange on my wastegate.

2) Pulled the plugs and #2 is soaked, all the others have normal carbon markings.

3) Switched plugs between #2 and #3 and #2 is still soaked while all the others have normal carbon markings.

4) Switched plugs back and then switched #2 and #3 coil packs and #2 is still soaked while all the others have normal carbon markings.

5) Tested the wiring from #2 to the ignitor and there is continuity between black and ground, white and white, and signal and signal at the opposite end of the harness.

6) Tested the wiring from the ignitor to the ECU and it is also continuous.

CONCLUSIONI figured since #2 does not fire with any plug or coil pack and that the wiring from the ECU to the coilpack was continuous that the ignitor was the weak link. So I bought two used Z32 ignitors that the guy said worked. None of the 3 ignitors I have in my possession get the engine to run right and #2 still does not fire. Weird that all three ignitors wouldn't work on #2.

MORE TESTS7) So I figured the injector was sticking open. I listened to it with the engine running and it is clicking away like the others.

8) While I was listening to it run I kept hearing a crackle like an electrical arc happening. The best I could tell, it was coming from the #2 coilpack area and not the #2 injector. Does anyone have any idea what is going on and what I can do to remedy this situation? Sorry for the long read...

[Shocker]

Sounds like a wiring/short issue with the #2 coil pack.

Pull the coil and plug together, disconnect the injector harness and rotate the CAS by hand to verify its sparking and go from there.

[Darius]

Ok I pulled the #2 fuel injector to switch it around and saw that the lower o-ring was torn in several places...wtf? I greased the hell out of them but apparently this one got stuck in there crooked somehow. I have a call into Deatschwerks for a new one. Pisses me off so bad.

[gawdzilla]

try switching the coils themselves around? might be a cracked coil and the spark is grounding out on the casing

[Darius]

See test #4.

I think I have the overfueling pinpointed.

That crackling sound unnerves me. If the fuel soaked the plug, could that cause it to crackle when it tried to fire?

[Shocker]

See test #4.

I think I have the overfueling pinpointed.

That crackling sound unnerves me. If the fuel soaked the plug, could that cause it to crackle when it tried to fire?

The crackle sound I'm thinking of sounds more electrical... I've fuel soaked my plugs and do not recall a crackle.

Have someone crank while you listen around for it if it doesn't go away once you fix your #2 problem.

[gawdzilla]

See test #4.

I think I have the overfueling pinpointed.

That crackling sound unnerves me. If the fuel soaked the plug, could that cause it to crackle when it tried to fire?

sorry, didn't read carefully enough. thought you just switched plugs. could be an injector sticking maybe? i'm not sure how you would test it other than switching them around. also try taking out the CAS and spinning it by hand so you can pinpoint the crackling sound. its much harder to hear when the motor is actually cranking or running.

take out the entire set of plugs/coils/2 mounting brackets and leave them plugged in. lay them out with the plug threads touching a grounded metal pipe and spin the CAS. you should see them firing in order. that will at least rule out your spark question and it takes 10 minutes to do.

[Carl H]

here's how i install sidefeed injectors and get them to play nice without a hitch...1) pull fuel pump fuse2) roll car over till it empties the rail3) remove injector4) dry the bore out (VERY IMPORTANT)5) apply a liberal ammount of engine lube to the injector orings and rail bore. be sure to lube down into the narrow part.6) loosely seat the injector7) use a socket and ratchet w/ extension that fits the 'circle' on top of the injector.8) apply light force and it should slide in no worries.

any dealer should have sidefeed rings in stock...pretty cheap too.

[Darius]

Thanks for the tips gawdzilla and Carl. Originally, I used Deatsch's lube which seemed like lithium grease and I only smeared it on the upper and lower o-rings. I'll try getting some down in the fuel rail bore this time. Do you recommend pre-setting the o-ring towards the tip or seat before inserting it? Or doesn't that matter?

Just got off the phone with Deatsch and they warned that the upper o-ring seat could have gotten damaged during installation if the o-ring did, but I didn't see anything that caught my eye. I'll take some pics tonight and send them out.

[mello88]

Sounds like you already found out the problem.

Did you pull the coils out and ground the spark plug on #2 and turn the CAS by hand to make sure the coil is firing on that cylinder?

[Carl H]

the lube that deatchwerks supplies is good stuff but im not sure if its gasoline soluble...hence why i went with engine assembly lube.the red stuff at advance auto works pretty well...

[eh?]

Thanks for the tips gawdzilla and Carl. Originally, I used Deatsch's lube which seemed like lithium grease and I only smeared it on the upper and lower o-rings.

Use Petroleum jelly, we use that in the aircraft mx biz under the name "white fonoline" all the time for o-rings.

[Darius]

Hey Carl. I want to call the dealership here today and get a lower o-ring to see if I can just swap it out tonight. Do you have any part numbers I could use to give the parts department an idea of what I need?

[Carl H]

dohc ka stuff worked last time i checked...

[Shocker]

dohc ka stuff worked last time i checked...

Yup for the injector body themselves, however the lower "grommet" insulator for the plenum does not it is an:

A32 Maxima insulator

part# 16636-72P00

[Darius]

haha shocker it is funny you mention that because I was just looking on ebay and remembered you were looking for those lower grommet pieces and I thought the maxima's looked very close to the stock rb's.

Alright, thanks again guys. I'll see what I can do tonight and maybe get a video of it running if all goes well.

[Shocker]

good luck Matt, come pull mine apart when your done.

[Darius]

Awe F***IN $**T! Mike with Deatschwerks was right, my seat is jacked up and I need a new injector or injector repair.

I'm not joking when I say this engine is either cursed, scared, or lazy. Any way you look at it, it doesn't want to run.

[Carl H]

there is no way in hell that is an installation error...looks like they sent you a bum injector.no way that would ever happen from you pushing a lubed injector in.

[Darius]

The only way I can think is if i got it in there a little cockeyed and tried to muscle it the rest of the way in. I do remember having trouble with getting one of them in.

Deatschwerks has been very responsive so far, so we'll see how far they will go to help accommodate me and this situation.

[cdorhout]

Tell him to overnight that thing!

Does this mean you'll have one injector that isn't flow matched to the rest? I'm sure that's nothing to worry about though.

[Darius]

I don't know, but I asked him to send me one that was flow tested at 660cc like all the others were. If not, I can adjust the individual injector duration in the datalogit software. It shouldn't make much of a difference though. Once I hear back from him tomorrow, I'll give you guys an immediate update.

[Shocker]

I'm not joking when I say this engine is either cursed, scared, or lazy. Any way you look at it, it doesn't want to run.

P lease.....

Id say they owe you an injector personally. I agree with Carl, theres no way you caused that on the install.

[gawdzilla]

time for top feeds? j/k deatschwerks will help you out, they are good guys

[Darius]

I might do the fuel system this winter, but it depends on available funds and if my gf ever wants a big, sparkly ring.

[S14-NEO]

as nice everyone thinks top feed injectors are they are not nearly as reliable as the side feeds...the main reason is the only cooling on a top feed injector is when the injector flows fuel thru it. the side feeds however have fuel flowing around them at all times which makes their failure rate much much lower than top feeds...stick with the side feeds unless your making more power than your stock rail can dish out for fuel. i also concure, that seat on the injector you removed looked like a forming process screw up..darius, if you had that much trouble with installing that particular than shame on your for not yanking it out to make sure the injector wasnt damaged.ive heard deatchwerks is usually pretty good on the customer support end so ill be pulling for ya.

[S14-NEO]

yes i use either vasoline or wheel bearing grease for all my side feed injector installs...my first choice is always vasoline though...very liberal amount too..the fuell will wash it out in no time with absolutely no ill affects

[l0nestar]

I might do the fuel system this winter, but it depends on available funds and if my gf ever wants a big, sparkly ring.

kinda reminds me of Booztd 3's signature on another forum..

Fast cars scream I don't have the money for your vagina and if I did I'd buy a bigger turbo

ahh, to be single again..

[Darius]

I just pulled all the injectors to see what the situation was. 3 of 6 have an upper o-ring seat that looks like a saggy telephone line between poles. (like the above pics) Sending all of them back to Deatch. They said they'd fix them and send them in back 24 hours or less.

Did I do something wrong when installing them? Are they supposed to pop into place or are they just supposed to be set in there and then pressed in with the retainer caps?? I originally popped them into place since they had to be popped out during removal.

[S14-NEO]

i am assuming that you used new injector orings for these deastchwerks injectors, that being said if you use a petroleum jelly like vasoline (liberally) and i do mean liberally you should be fine. make sure when installing the injectors into the rail that the rail is clean and free of fuel. also make sure that where the injectors seats are within the fuel rail are also lubed with vasoline..if you do all of the above they should pop in with very little effort.