Igniter Chip and coil pack upgrade?? okada?

[navajo_drifter]

im curious as to what igniter chip would be a good replacement, and im curious about the OKADA PROJECT plasma booster...im not quite sure exactly how this thing works or how it is wired in. also, im curious of the splitfire coil packs, if the plasma booster increases the current to the coil packs then the "supposed" problem with the split fire coil packs of taking longer to charge and discharge would be solved...correct?

[Joe]

what the **** is a plasma boosterand are you pushing 500+? if you arent, theres no real reason to upgrade the coilpacks.

[StricNyne]

OK the plasma booster is basically a HKS DLI, dsport and they did a huge write up on the benefits of the HKS DLI and the Okada plasma coils, as Kamin said if your at stock power levels the stock coils are adequate, although DSPORT did gain some horsepower when they switched to the OKADA coils on a sti u can make up for that with a lil more boose juice, i personally have been eying both of those, and i am inclined to just get the plasma booster or the DLI, if anyone one reads dsport they got over 1000 horsepower and did it with a power fc, STOCK coil packs (thats what magazine said stock ign) and the HKS DLI, and supposedely the plasma booster is better than the DLI. if your coil packs are on the way out, yes i would say the okada is a good investment if your at stock power levels, BUT if your coils work fine, and your going to only slightly raise the power levels stick with stock coils

[HxC_Nismo]

i just upgraded to the splitfire coil packs (cause i kept on frying igniters cause of a stock coil back feeding to the igniter and frying it so i just said **** it and bought a set of brand new splitfire coils, since i plan on building my rb26 for 700rwhp when the money comes in) and ive noticed alot smoother acceleration and it stabilized my a/f at full boost, and ive also noticed it starts alot easier at lower battery voltage. cause since my car is a weekend warrior the battery slowly drains and when i had the factory coils i had to jump start the car cause the factory coils needed 12v to operate and the splitfires only need 11v or so to operate properly. and i just tuned my car on a dyno dynamics(heartbreaker dyno) and put down 340rwhp wich if it was on a dynojet i would of put down 370-390rwhp.(dyno dynamics and mustang dynameteter both read lower than what a dynojet reads.

[Joe]

i just upgraded to the splitfire coil packs (cause i kept on frying igniters cause of a stock coil back feeding to the igniter and frying it so i just said **** it and bought a set of brand new splitfire coils, since i plan on building my rb26 for 700rwhp when the money comes in) and ive noticed alot smoother acceleration and it stabilized my a/f at full boost, and ive also noticed it starts alot easier at lower battery voltage. cause since my car is a weekend warrior the battery slowly drains and when i had the factory coils i had to jump start the car cause the factory coils needed 12v to operate and the splitfires only need 11v or so to operate properly. and i just tuned my car on a dyno dynamics(heartbreaker dyno) and put down 340rwhp wich if it was on a dynojet i would of put down 370-390rwhp.(dyno dynamics and mustang dynameteter both read lower than what a dynojet reads.

hate to be a d!ck killjoy, but you noticed all those improvements in drivability because you had a failed coilpack on there before. you are comparing a broken part to a working one.

and there is NO WAY your coilpacks made a difference in your vehicle starting, but it does sound like you have a parasitic drain, might wanna check into that. my car can sit for a month and not drain the battery (even with the rb)

[StricNyne]

yeah, http://www.dragsport.com/issue...shtml

thats is article on the plasma coils

on this dvd they discuss the rh9 gtr and the ignition http://www.powertvonline.com/v...=4182

i coud possibly rip it for you guys

althought like kamin said its unfair to compare ****ty oem to what is supposed to be higher quality aftermarket, you cannot deny dyno proven results on those coils, but they aint cheap 400 bux for plasma boosterm and 1100 for coilpacks... whew didnt realise they were that expensive...

[Joe]

no its not comparing OEM to aftermarket "performance" parts, its comparing a BROKEN OEM part to an aftermarket one. of course your gonna notice a difference with the aftermarket one, but a properly working stock one 99% of the time is just as good if not better on a near stock engine.

and call me crazy but they didnt give any power numbers on the dyno comparison between oem and aftermarket. all they said they got was a .4 psi change in boost. andwhen your already at 20+ psi (****ing subarus) that is gonna account for about 2whp lol those packs (along with others) cost a ****LOAD of money and account for almost NO worthwhile gain. "if it aint broke, dont fix it" has always been my motto, and until you are blowing out spark on your stock setup, or having serious breakup, there is no reason to drop some serious coin on some coils

[StricNyne]

thats what i meant by ****ty = broken, regardless, didnt realise they were ****ing 1100 dollers... thats what i am stuck haha, im gunna be running stock coilpacks, and when they fail since i am not jj money bags i am going to get spitfire because thats what i can afford, 2 more hp aint worth 600 dollers imo

[Joe]

absolutely, which brings me back to my main point. is the op making 500+ hp?

[al_v]

I have a rb25det ,with some head work , FMIC , Greddy intake , 3 " turbo back exhaust , and I couldn´t run more than 13 lb ( stock turbo ) because I had serious misfires problems with my denso iridium spark plugs gapped at 0.7 mmI needed to re-gap the spark plugs to 0.5 mm to solve my misfires problems.
Modified by al_v at 2:54 PM 4/13/2008

[gawdzilla]

bumping a somewhat old thread. considering getting a coil pack upgrade.

my car misses a good bit at higher boost levels (above 16 psi), especially once the car is really warm. It even develops a slight miss around 16 psi when the motor is really hot. i suspect the coils may be heat soaking (unsure). Carl H suggested alternator because i do have e-fans. I do notice that my fuel pump sound changes a tad when the fans come on.. mainly cuz the pump is loud as hell. No lights dimming though, and my voltages always seem to be acceptable (13.5+). No stereo either. Plus the problem is occurring at high rpm, where the alternator should be cranking. If it really was my alternator wouldn't I have some issues holding high rpm just revving? There should be no electrical load difference between the two right?

I'm running ngk iridium 7s gapped to .6mm, and i have run copper 7s gapped to the same. Both end up doing the same when I least want them to. At the track, on the dyno. When I'm street tuning, it often does not happen. I found that the iridiums don't foul out as easily though.

The missing is really bothering me. Spent some money on a dynapack session and ended up just continuously breaking up through high rpm and high load. Last night I pulled my coilpacks and there is no "visible" damage to them (people had mentioned arcing to the head out of cracks, etc.). My coil pack harness is old/crusty but still works. all the clips still unclipped fine, and there is no corrosion on it that i can see. Underneath the boots, all the springs and seat areas are clean. I don't run with the ornament cover either to help the coils breathe.

Thoughts on what to do? Worst case I see the splitfires being at least a NEW set of coils. Whether they really do work or not, the old coils which can be considered "wear items" will be replaced with something new. New coils from nissan are about $100 and some change each.
Modified by gawdzilla at 8:07 AM 6/18/2008

[WhatsADSM]

gawdzilla.

I am in the same boat as you. Anything over 17psi and the car starts to break up and I'm almost positive it is ignition related. Cleaned the coils, got new plugs with .028 gap installed, all with the same issue.

Hopefully later tonight I will get a chance to run a direct line from the battery + and GND to coil/igniter to see if that helps. I have a sneaking suspicion that under high loads as the coil duty cycle is increasing (read high RPM) there is a fairly low voltage at the high side of the coils and the stock current return from the igniter is a bit small.. causing a weak charge to build in the coils. Hence the spark just can't jump the gap once you start pushing enough air for around 500whp.

I will keep you posted on what I find.

Otherwise if I can't get it worked out then I'll look into an ignition upgrade, and will likely start with some form of a CDI (maybe AEM twin fire) on the stock coils. And if need be I'll go with a CDI with new COP coils (like AEM pencil coils or CBR coils)

[240z4u]

Hey fellas. I am not having ignition breakup (shockingly) above 22psi. I did have that problem, and swapping coils (to another good used set) and plugs made it much better. The problem would get worse with a hot engine.

WhatsADSM, if you can make it over here at some point (and have an S2 motor) you are welcome to try my coils on your car to see if it fixes the problem.

Evan

[240z4u]

Otherwise if I can't get it worked out then I'll look into an ignition upgrade, and will likely start with some form of a CDI (maybe AEM twin fire) on the stock coils. And if need be I'll go with a CDI with new COP coils (like AEM pencil coils or CBR coils)

IMO your just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic if you keep the stock coils. They are expensive, and not all that easy to run out and get. If I ever have to do ignition work again I will either do a wasted spark setup or a set of 6 LSx coils.

Evan

[gawdzilla]

thanks for the replies. i have run 19 psi before with no breakup. after doing multiple runs back to back which i will be doing at the track(and also being warmer ambient temps now), the ignition system hates it. i think getting a fresher set of coils would be beneficial, hence the splitfires ($450). not really seeing them as an upgrade, but more of replacing worn out stuff. oem new is 100+ each, and knockoff new is $50 each....

i really want to stick with oem style though. supra coils, ls1 coils, wasted spark gn, everyone has the grass is greener syndrome. supra guys run RB coils, ls1 guys run supra coils, GN guys switch to ls1, etc. etc. so I don't think any of those are really PROVEN either, other than like i said, replacing worn out crap with new stuff.

and yes, the issue seems to be over the 400 whp area. broke up a bit at 15 psi, 410 whp. broke up a LOT at 18 psi and pooped out a 445 whp.
Modified by gawdzilla at 8:39 AM 6/18/2008

[240z4u]

thanks for the replies. i have run 19 psi before with no breakup. after doing multiple runs back to back which i will be doing at the track(and also being warmer ambient temps now), the ignition system hates it. i think getting a fresher set of coils would be beneficial, hence the splitfires ($450). not really seeing them as an upgrade, but more of replacing worn out stuff. oem new is 100+ each, and knockoff new is $50 each....

i really want to stick with oem style though. supra coils, ls1 coils, wasted spark gn, everyone has the grass is greener syndrome. supra guys run RB coils, ls1 guys run supra coils, GN guys switch to ls1, etc. etc. so I don't think any of those are really PROVEN either, other than like i said, replacing worn out crap with new stuff.

and yes, the issue seems to be over the 400 whp area. broke up a bit at 15 psi, 410 whp. broke up a LOT at 18 psi and pooped out a 445 whp.

I totally agree with what your saying with the grass being greener. My reasoning was the desire to run a coil that is common enough for me to grab from an auto parts store in the future if it takes a dump. I honestly thought the splitfires cost more then 450 for the set. If thats the case, its almost worth going that route and keeping a couple of spare stock coils for backup. I don't like extra clutter from plug wires etc..

I just hear so many bad things about having the coils in such a hot location, but realistically in any 240 its hot underhood.... its the nature of the beast.

Evan

[WhatsADSM]

IMO your just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic if you keep the stock coils. They are expensive, and not all that easy to run out and get. If I ever have to do ignition work again I will either do a wasted spark setup or a set of 6 LSx coils.

Evan

A CDI system is VASTLY different from an inductive ignition. The charge build up on the primary is very high, and hence the spark build up will be MUCH greater on the secondary and through the spark plug with a CDI system. This is exactly why people earlier posted that the HKS DLI (CDI), or plasma booster (ignition amplifier so presumably CDI) has supported 1000whp on stock coils.

So I definately agree that keeping the stock coils may not be the best case scenario, but at the same time I really don't have the cash to go out and get a new CDI system along with new coils so I figured I would just do one at a time. And actually the stock coils so far have been pretty good, I am just pushing them pretty far so I'm not suprised they don't start to give up on me (again probably around that 500whp mark).

*EDIT* Thanks for the offer! If I am ever in the area I may take you up on that.

thanks for the replies. i have run 19 psi before with no breakup. after doing multiple runs back to back which i will be doing at the track(and also being warmer ambient temps now), the ignition system hates it. i think getting a fresher set of coils would be beneficial, hence the splitfires ($450). not really seeing them as an upgrade, but more of replacing worn out stuff. oem new is 100+ each, and knockoff new is $50 each....

i really want to stick with oem style though. supra coils, ls1 coils, wasted spark gn, everyone has the grass is greener syndrome. supra guys run RB coils, ls1 guys run supra coils, GN guys switch to ls1, etc. etc. so I don't think any of those are really PROVEN either, other than like i said, replacing worn out crap with new stuff.

and yes, the issue seems to be over the 400 whp area. broke up a bit at 15 psi, 410 whp. broke up a LOT at 18 psi and pooped out a 445 whp.

Couldn't agree more. I get a kick out of DSM guys moving from their waste spark to 300M/LS1/etc. COP systems STILL RUNNING WASTESPARK. Then you have supra guys switching to LS1, RX7, etc.... The grass is always greener.

[WhatsADSM]

I totally agree with what your saying with the grass being greener. My reasoning was the desire to run a coil that is common enough for me to grab from an auto parts store in the future if it takes a dump. I honestly thought the splitfires cost more then 450 for the set. If thats the case, its almost worth going that route and keeping a couple of spare stock coils for backup. I don't like extra clutter from plug wires etc..

I just hear so many bad things about having the coils in such a hot location, but realistically in any 240 its hot underhood.... its the nature of the beast.

Evan

Yea I didn't realize they were 450 either. Checked on ebay and low and behold yea they are about 450. Its pricey but not horrible.... Thats about the same price maybe even a little cheaper then the AEM twinfire.

If my running new power/gnd seems to help, then yea I agree. Maybe first I will get new coils (splitfires) then if I need more I'll move to a CDI.

[240z4u]

Keep us updated on the power/ground situation. It certainly can't hurt!

Evan

[DriftX]

z32 ignitor swap for the cost and abundancy..GM coil retrofit for cost and practicality.. just remember your going to have a huge black box in your engine bay.. but it has worked flawless on mine.

[BoostFab]

z32 ignitor swap for the cost and abundancy..GM coil retrofit for cost and practicality.. just remember your going to have a huge black box in your engine bay.. but it has worked flawless on mine.

if you dress it up in a loom and not having wires flying everywhere, it *does* look subtle

[autocrossing]

I'm running 100% stock ignition with NGK Iridium 7's gapped at .028, last dyno was 622whp @ 1.5bar. I drive the car just about every day at ~550whp. I haven't had the first hiccup.

[gawdzilla]

I'm running 100% stock ignition with NGK Iridium 7's gapped at .028, last dyno was 622whp @ 1.5bar. I drive the car just about every day at ~550whp. I haven't had the first hiccup.

yep, seems to be hit or miss with the ignition. consider yourself lucky

your coils must've had an easy life and are in great shape. i'm running iri 7s right now and they choke out up top whenever they feel like it. 622 @ 1.5 is a pretty good number. stock head?

[240z4u]

I'm running 100% stock ignition with NGK Iridium 7's gapped at .028, last dyno was 622whp @ 1.5bar. I drive the car just about every day at ~550whp. I haven't had the first hiccup.

Thats reassuring, in that the splitfires may be more than enough to support my lowly high 400hp goals. .

Evan

[autocrossing]

yep, seems to be hit or miss with the ignition. consider yourself lucky

your coils must've had an easy life and are in great shape. i'm running iri 7s right now and they choke out up top whenever they feel like it. 622 @ 1.5 is a pretty good number. stock head?

no, lots of work done to the head, 1.5 bar really doesn't do it justice but I'm in the process of re-doing my fuel system so I can crank it up.I have found that the coils like to be uncovered to stay cooler, I haven't had to resort to that on mine yet, but it's worth a shot if you're having problems with yours.

Marshall

[BoostFab]

absolutely, the coil behave inconsistently when they are overheated.

[Fearsome_tea]

your coils must've had an easy life and are in great shape. i'm running iri 7s right now and they choke out up top whenever they feel like it. 622 @ 1.5 is a pretty good number. stock head?

Seen higher numbers than that on a stock head.

[WhatsADSM]

Yea I would say you are a lucky one. and your coils are in great shape.

Anything over 17psi and mine will break up. I would venture a guess and say I am just under 500whp when mine start to break up at ~18psi.

BTW, I haven't updated yet because I haven't had a chance to work on the car. Hopefully I will get a chance to rerun the power and grounds, but the better news is that I purchased a brand new set of LS2 coils from an 08 vett for a good deal. So I will be making up a custom coil per plug setup (NON wastespark) with them, as they have better spark energy and built in ignitors. Dwell is a non-issue since I can adjust it with the EMS.

[240z4u]

Yea I would say you are a lucky one. and your coils are in great shape.

Anything over 17psi and mine will break up. I would venture a guess and say I am just under 500whp when mine start to break up at ~18psi.

BTW, I haven't updated yet because I haven't had a chance to work on the car. Hopefully I will get a chance to rerun the power and grounds, but the better news is that I purchased a brand new set of LS2 coils from an 08 vett for a good deal. So I will be making up a custom coil per plug setup (NON wastespark) with them, as they have better spark energy and built in ignitors. Dwell is a non-issue since I can adjust it with the EMS.

I can't wait to hear how this works out. That was my plan too.

Evan

[WhatsADSM]

I can't wait to hear how this works out. That was my plan too.

Evan

Will do!

For a good read:http://www.megamanual.com/seq/coils.htm

They specifically list the LS1 and LS2 coils and he actually put them on the scope and measured them,which saves me a TON of time. According to his calcs the LS2 had had almost 3 times the spark energy of the LS1s! Has all the data and even a video (can't see it at work though ).

If that is the case that should be MORE than enough to hold me over. I'll do a small writeup on it once I do the conversion.