I was wondering.....

[Riley2.4L]

See the tought has been crossing my mind for some time now about turning to the almighty turbo for power. thing is I don't if I should follow trend and just swap in an ol' blacktop SR20DET or just turbo the KA24DE. I was wondering why all u guys chose the KA-T over the SR-T. I figured a turboed KA would produce more horsepower than a stock SR but how is the torque in comparison. I know a million people have asked this question but I didn't want to look on some biased SR or KA site and get a bunch of lies on facts. I just wanna know why y'all went the way you did with KA-T

Riley

[Florida240sx]

Went KA because I don't want to be JDM tyte. Both engine are good and very closely matched.They are equally matched engines. Flip a quarter to decide which way to go.

[Craving4Boost]

guys its not like hes asking which is better, SR vs KA-T....hes asking a specific question about why is the KA-T better than the SR so lets cut him a little slack...

however Riley, this question still has undoubtley been asked plenty of times more than anyone can imagine..

but to answer to question...it seems like you already did. you asked how is the torque compared to a SR but you know that a KA can yield more HP. thats your answer, KA has a bigger displacement, which means more TQ, more TQ is more power. TQ is everything to me its the sh*t! its not fun without TQ, TQ is the King of the streets

TQ, its different from SR, and its easier to replace parts if you blow something up

[GEO]

Exaclty what he said.. getting parts for the KA is alot cheaper then the SR if something would to go wrong. Plus the torque is great to have also. Why pay $3500 for 180rwhp when you can pay $3500 or even cheaper for 250rwhp ? As you would say tho, the SR has alot more tolerence to boost and abuse, hence the lower compression. But a built KA and a built SR, I am sorry to say, but the SR can't touch a built KA.

[Nismo_Freak]

Exaclty what he said.. getting parts for the KA is alot cheaper then the SR if something would to go wrong. Plus the torque is great to have also. Why pay $3500 for 180rwhp when you can pay $3500 or even cheaper for 250rwhp ? As you would say tho, the SR has alot more tolerence to boost and abuse, hence the lower compression. But a built KA and a built SR, I am sorry to say, but the SR can't touch a built KA.

I don't wanna hear this drivel any more.

I bought an SR20DET long block for $350 shipped, I get parts at Autozone, I get parts from the junkyard. On the same token you can build your own parts for the SR just the same as you can for the KA.

Not ONCE have I had to spend any more money on a part than I would for a KA.

$3500 for 180whp is either someone that doesn't understand what they are doing or someone that wants to pay too much for a motor swap period.

A KA-T might make 2-5 lb. ft. more torque than a stock turbo SR... wooptie ****ing doo!

SR can't touch a built KA? ... you're retarded. Call me when those built KA's get out of the high 10s, history favors the SR. The future is the KA's only hope.

Why don't you try owning an SR before you open your mouth and spew out a bunch of mindless banter.

[Craving4Boost]

the SR turbo scene has been around ALOT longer than the KA-T has...of course people have accomplished more because they were simply offered more time. the SR has much much more support than the KA gets yet people has still gotten far with the KA-T. people are already hitting 10sec with the KA-T and yet theres still more room to go

to me...TQ isnt just a number...anyone can get a small displacement engine and put a semi big turbo on it and dyno out big TQ numbers. but it sure doesnt feel like it...........

[GEO]

^^ I think ricks KA should be able to do that. This should be closed before a debate enbroils

[Nismo_Freak]

the SR turbo scene has been around ALOT longer than the KA-T has...of course people have accomplished more because they were simply offered more time. the SR has much much more support than the KA gets yet people has still gotten far with the KA-T. people are already hitting 10sec with the KA-T and yet theres still more room to go

to me...TQ isnt just a number...anyone can get a small displacement engine and put a semi big turbo on it and dyno out big TQ numbers. but it sure doesnt feel like it...........

Longer? People were running 10's back in the 90's with KA-T's

Making power out of an engine isn't rocket science, and 9 / 10 the high powered engines aren't going to run off the shelf parts in large part. Even so the KA has plenty of aftermarket and has HAD plenty of aftermarket for some time now to build a high powered KA-T.

It took Ivan what ... a year to build a 600+whp car? Thats not long at all, so I don't see why you people bring up this "the KA doesn't have all the parts like the SR" cop out then go on to feel all high and mighty with your bigger displacement. Internals, cams, etc. can all be produced custom. It's all in doing the homework yourself, but the problem is people now a days want everything handed to them on a silver platter for $10 and a handjob.

Duy is having issues getting his car to make numbers because of his crappy manifolds he decided to run. Even though I told him on another forum "good luck running 9's with that setup". Low and behold he ran into the wall! Once he gets that car finally setup I have zero doubt it will be in the 9's, but it still hasn't done it. Ricks car should have ZERO issues getting into the 9's, it's just working out the bugs to get there.

The KA community seems to be like a giant whiny baby that talks about how it's got all this potential, but no one has even remotely taken it for what it's worth. Instead you get people that are all budget warriors who sit around and circle jerk each other over how cheap they can build their stock internaled wonders while a select handful push the envelope, spend some money, and end up with very nice powerbands.

The people that are making the power in this forum aren't the people you hear dissing the SR with their obvious lack of knowledge, or rambling about how their $15 KA-T setup is the greatest. They are the people who spent thousands and did it right the first time, they are the people that have mutual respect for people that choose another route regardless of cost. Unfortunatly some of those people that spend the money have had issues recently.

Get real people.

[Craving4Boost]

wow you typed that fast lol...

anyways im gonna start arguing about this **** because id rather avoid it

[GEO]

I totally agree with NismoFreak, Structure can even atest to this. I have always said, do it the right way or don't do it at all. Modding cars include spending a ton of money and if your not ready to shell out the bills, forget about it.

[Nismo_Freak]

wow you typed that fast lol...

anyways im gonna start arguing about this **** because id rather avoid it

There really is zero arguement... thats just how it is.

Any arguement is just an excuse.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

. I know a million people have asked this question but I didn't want to look on some biased SR or KA site and get a bunch of lies on facts.

Well, you are on a KA site, so the answers are going to be biased... as you have already seen. i agree with the flip a quarter method. The reason I am going KA-t is because I am a DIY guy, and at the time i was deciding what to do, there were a lot of "got F'ed out of my SR shipment" stories and whatnot. If you decide to go SR, i strongly reccomed you buy from one of our sponsors, as they have the best reputations.

[Nismo_Freak]

I don't even believe in the flip a quarter statement.

You should try to experience both, and make a decision on that.

The motors drive and feel different.

[sunnys14]

then reason i went KA-T is because ALOT of 240 owners here are cocky with their SR swaps. they think they can beat pretty much ANYTHING with 12psi on a stock turbo, upgraded turbo manifold, and a front mount intercooler. i went to an 240 meet two weeks ago, i was the only KA-T. you should seen how cocky SR owners are and how they talked **** about my KA-T. just to let you know, i was undefeatable that night. =)

[Mustangs_Suck]

Exaclty what he said.. getting parts for the KA is alot cheaper then the SR if something would to go wrong. Plus the torque is great to have also. Why pay $3500 for 180rwhp when you can pay $3500 or even cheaper for 250rwhp ? As you would say tho, the SR has alot more tolerence to boost and abuse, hence the lower compression. But a built KA and a built SR, I am sorry to say, but the SR can't touch a built KA.

meh..just seems like if you turbo your KA it explodes. I'd rather make a little less torque and be able to drive my ****ing car, then make a bit more and be fixing it every other damn week.

[Mustangs_Suck]

The KA community seems to be like a giant whiny baby that talks about how it's got all this potential, but no one has even remotely taken it for what it's worth. Instead you get people that are all budget warriors who sit around and circle jerk each other over how cheap they can build their stock internaled wonders

lol too true. It sucks the guys that actually do their cars with respectable parts (not going "o i can save $200 and get a SSAUTOCHROME part") are blowing their motors left and right... and this is why I'm gonna jump off the KA-T set up right now. You can buy crap parts for cheap and have it junk out on you, or you can buy nice parts for tons of cash and get the same result in a few months - either way you look at it...pointless. Kudos to those that keep plugging away though, hoping they can find a good, powerful, but actually somewhat reliable set-up - I hope it's found soon,as I really like the KA motor..but jesus have I been turned off on trying to do anything with it this past month.

[turbo98_240sx]

1st, How is this not locked already?

2nd, Your only as fast as your wallet

3rd, No one motor (let alone certain type of motor) is gonna rule in every department, different motors do different things, hell look at a KA power band vs. one with V3 cams, the whole power band shifts and the motor becomes a different "beast" if you will. That's the trick and fun of building your car up different mods make power in different places it's all up to driver preference

4th, pick 2 of these 3, Power, Cost Effective or Reliability (and only 2)

5th, A motor is only as strong as it's weakest link, whatever it is........tuning, rods, pistons, fuel system, air flow, exc...... one of those is probably where your tq/hp limit comes from I mean there is more but in a nutshell those are the biggies.

6th, Both engines have ample aftermarket support, SR20DE's were sold in cars in the states, and aftermarket for the SR20DET is endless..........and the KA24DE/E has a nice selection of parts OEM and otherwise, plenty of turbo kits/upgrades too along with the custom route on both.

7th, The SR has been being "tuned" longer then the KA has been around being built up/tuned so the SR has more tested and tried things done to it, The KA on the other hand is relatively newer so things are being worked out and are experimental, but it is catching up fast to knowns and provens vs the SR

Answering your question, I went KA-T because the KA was in the car, I like the power band/ TQ #'s. SR wiring *seems* like a pain TO ME, I'ma DYI guy so the Idea of turboing something that wasn't in the first place sounded fun, and I had a sentra with the SR20DE in it (loved every second of that car too) and even though it was never boosted(SR) the KA-T seemed like a better match for MY driving style and preference.......It all depends on what YOU want, Low end TQ or High Revs and top end power, Even though both motors *could* (in theroy) be set up to do either but with in there respective limits and needs for upgrades to do so, see #2.

Almost forgot cost wise $ per HP I feel it's gonna be a toss up between SR and KA and once your into the 350ish+ HP land it's uber time/money/effort spent and your into internals on both, Reliability is gonna depend on a ton of factors, a few of witch are the SR's quality up front (condition of swap) same for KA (how good the motor is b4 you boost it). You have to use parts that arn't cheep if you want any kind of reliability. What you upgrade and where you upgrade (head work vs bottom end)....It all depends on your goals and budget knowing those and what the car will be used for are probably the bigger factors. Just my .02

Modified by turbo98_240sx at 10:09 AM 8/15/2005
Modified by turbo98_240sx at 10:15 AM 8/15/2005

[fiznat]

Argh, why does this keep on happening??

The REASON we dont want SR/KA-T debates is not because it has been discussed a million times, but because a lot of people cant seem to talk about it in a calm, respectful manner.

I will let this thread go for a little while because I see that some of you have put in some serious effort into making well written, intelligent knowledge-based posts. I appreciate that a LOT, and I dont feel like its right to waste that effort by locking the thread simply because it is a SR/KA debate. Sarcastic comments, petty bickering, personal attacks, etc will NOT be tolerated for even a second though, so keep yourselves calm, alright?

Riley2.4L, this topic has been dicussed from all kinds of angles seriously hundreds of times before. Your question is EXTREMELY basic- it would help out a lot if you would search our archives a little bit before jumping on and posting about things that most people here are tired of discussing.

[hannibal]

Fiz, youre cool...

There's no better motor to learn on than the one that came in your car. You can spend literally hundreds of dollars and have it turboed. Sure, its cheap and not a factory speced system, but it gets the job done.

Once youre prepared to spend thousands on a turbo setup, the line between KAs and SRs melts into personal preference, as both are quite capable to achieving high numbers.

The KA community seems to be like a giant whiny baby that talks about how it's got all this potential, but no one has even remotely taken it for what it's worth. Instead you get people that are all budget warriors who sit around and circle jerk each other over how cheap they can build their stock internaled wonders while a select handful push the envelope, spend some money, and end up with very nice powerbands.

So you agree the KA has potential as a nice low budget setup as well as a high hp motor? So who's whining? The budget guys get the power for cheaper than an SR and the high power guys are making great progress towards the SR benchmarks.

Most people dont get SR blocks for $350. You are the exception. I'm planning a KA-T cause I'm trying to learn. I want to do so with minimum investment. My car has a healthy KA, and I can find whole running motors for $350.

EDIT: To Freak or Fiz (or whoever edited my post):Is questioning a moderator that taboo? I must have been telling the truth if you felt the need to edit half my post.
Modified by IWannaS15 at 5:05 PM 8/15/2005

[Craving4Boost]

There really is zero arguement... thats just how it is.

Any arguement is just an excuse.

great...now i have a moderator aggravating me

[Craving4Boost]

jk nismo, i take that back, i still love this NICO community lol..

i guess we all get worked up when these things come up. i can tell your a very knowledgable person and you know what your talking about

i guess it just seems like you were only backing up the SR's point of view but thats given because this is the KA-T forum so its biased. last thing i would want the ka-t to be is a bums way to be ricer fast.

anyways, i wonder if the SR forums have these debates too. maybe we should start a new one thats a deticated comparison.

sounds like trouble though huh haha..

[S14tat]

the reason why i went ka-t is becusae i had low miles on my ka-t when i boosted it. i had 76K miles and i had perfect compression. i got a good deal on a custom turbo kit. the kit costed $2500 to piece together. i also want to be able to go to autozone to pick up parts. when my clutch slave cylinder went on me, i was glad that i didn't go sr. its sometimes the most random stuff that breaks that you can't get in autoparts store if you own a sr.

i've been boosted for 30K miles and when i checked my compression a few months back i'm still at perfect compression.

and mustang_sucks, what i don't understand is why do you keep on posting here? your thru with the ka-t scene so why do you keep on preaching about how crappy it is and how it only makes 200whp with 10K invested and how it will only last a few months? me and many other members are running for years. mine has been running for over 2 years.

i'm not takin anything away from y ou. you have every right to be mad, but just cause a handful of people have bad experience, that doesn't speak for the whoel community. me and anthony and nissan fanatic is still running strong and we've been turboed for a long time.

[Mustangs_Suck]

and mustang_sucks, what i don't understand is why do you keep on posting here? your thru with the ka-t scene so why do you keep on preaching about how crappy it is and how it only makes 200whp with 10K invested and how it will only last a few months? me and many other members are running for years. mine has been running for over 2 years.

i'm not takin anything away from y ou. you have every right to be mad, but just cause a handful of people have bad experience, that doesn't speak for the whoel community. me and anthony and nissan fanatic is still running strong and we've been turboed for a long time.

Posting my experiences - period, and no I'm not done yet, I still have the damn thing - not one person is interested in buying it, and I can understand why...with all the motors popping left and right, I don't think anyone's gonna be turned on to doing a KA-T set up until we figure out why this motor has such a weakpoint at the #3 rod bearing.

[virus77]

sr uses the same clutch slave cylinder, but I get what you mean. But at the same time that whole concept of jdm parts is overrated, its pretty easy to get parts for an SR.

I originally went the KAT route because Im in Cali and I figured it would be easier that way. After blowing it a few times, the last one being a built KA with stinkin stock rods, I decided to swap in an SR motor which I had at my shop that was eating dust.

In the end I would say both are very capable motor and drive entirely differently. Different people have different taste, an M3 motor makes 330 hp and so does an LT1 but certain people prefer one over the other for their different powerbands. Anyone that says one motor is soooo superior to the other or talks **** about the other motor is very ignorant. If you can get a ride in the cars it would be best way to choose. Also ask yourelf do you like high revs and a top end pull or low-mid range torque and a slightly lower redline.

[Craving4Boost]

blah, to me any boost is the SH*T! who cares what it is. i'll turbocharge a Geo Metro if thats the only thing left on this world

[Import_Ant]

I dont see what everyone is basing their "rarity of parts" debates on?

there are ALOT of us cars that had SR20DE motors.

NX2000's, PUlsars, B13 Sentras, even the current model of sentra has an SR20DE motor for the 2.0 liter SE model. there goes your availibility dispute. You just have to ask for the same part at the parts store for one of those cars vs. a 240. big whoop.

the >>ONLY<< rare parts are going to be for the S14-15 motors w/ VVT and that's going to be a select few parts at that. seriously this is not a legitimate dispute I will agree w/ Nismo_Freak on that issue.

everyone has their own reasoning for doing a swap or turboing their motor. just decide what traits you like and go from there. each motor has the areas where it shines.

Im tired of seeing the threads where everone wants someone else to tell them how to spend their money. if you are just doing research to make your own decision that's great but dont ask "what car should I get for $xxxx.00 or "what motor should I get?". it's your money its your car. go do some research and make up your own mind.

[Mustangs_Suck]

it's your money its your car. go do some research and make up your own mind.

[GEO]

AMEN

[Nismo_Freak]

So you agree the KA has potential as a nice low budget setup as well as a high hp motor? So who's whining? The budget guys get the power for cheaper than an SR and the high power guys are making great progress towards the SR benchmarks.

I never said otherwise in the past year this forum has been truely active.

You will notice all of my postings in here are either...

1. To help people2. To correct misinfo about the "other engine"

I could care less if my SR is slower than every KA on this board, nor could I care less that you think the KA is the greatest invention since sliced bread. I DO care when you post biased info regarding something you do not understand.

The same thing goes on in the SR forum and I will back-up the KA community.

I personally don't see the whole KA vs. SR arguement's validity any more. I may joke around but it's generally with the older members of the forum who either know me or have been around long enough to know I am just playing.

However, you always get some 17 yr. old e-warrior that has to put in his ignorant response, and by just the way I am I have to respond and take them down a notch or two, and in doing so I hope they understand that the arguement is boring, mundane, and seemingly hopeless because it all boils down to one single point; people have different conceptions of the ideal setup.

[turbo98_240sx]

Yeah I don't get the rarity of parts things either, my sentra SE-R (to bad the guy I sold it to who swore to god that he would take top notch care of it had some guy put his clutch in for a case of beer, that dumb@ss must have still been drunk when he handed the keys to my buddy because half the screws in the bell housing weren't put back in and as soon as my buddy dropped the clutch BOOM, instant cracked into nothing bell housing to bad he didn't ask me to do it cuz I woulda done it for free) but whatever, it had an SR20DE in it and *most* of the parts are completely interchangeable, I know pistons aren't the same so whatever mostly all the parts so I really don't see it that hard to get parts for a SR20DET and I live in bumfuk Wisconsin for Christ sake where nothing in the tuning world is close but I can still get SR parts.... I don't know how many times I've had to ask for a part that wasn't originally off of the car I was working on and just asked for the part off whatever car the part was from, like the guy at auto zone is gonna say "dude I can't sell you these sentra parts because you pulled up in a 240sx".........all that guy knows is typing some crap into the computer and getting me my damn part off of the shelf. A little research and you'll find that SR parts are not by any means hard to come by, and don't cost an arm or a leg more cuz it's for a "JDM" motor, it's the same thing just one has stronger internals, bigger injectors, and a turbo w/ supporting hardware and a few other things it's not like they redesigned the water pump so it could see boost.... to me the only Issue w/ a SR swap is getting a motor you know isn't f'ed^ to begin w/ as far as the mechanical side of it, now once you start talking admissions and all that things can change depending on your state, city, county or whatever controlling laws, inspections, and test your gonna have to pass....it's gonna be different everywhere so know what you have to do in order to pass/stay legal, unless it's "off road use only" .

That being said I have a KA-T, but I'm not into bashing the SR, it's seriously a great motor, besides I'm a car guy, I could care less if it's a vett, GNX (Grand National), 240sx, Camaro (dare I say it? wait my first real car was an 88' camaro so yeah I said it, got beef?, well then start your grill up cuz baby, that thing was cookin).........I'm not gonna hate something just because it's not my cup of tea.... I love motor sports, more importantly I love the pursuit of more power, better performance, what I hate is Ignorance.......be it a neon w/ a huge spoiler because you know how much a FF car needs all that down force on the back or it's some guy who for whatever reason spews out "garage" facts about other cars or motors, I'm not saying you shouldn't be proud of your car/motor setup, but please don't bash other motors/cars just because you don't know anything about it. I'm all for an open forum on the SR/KA debate, witch one is the better motor is a SUBJECTIVE matter, yeah you can use facts like .4L more displacement or higher rev's but when it comes down to it your not doing anyone any good to give BS facts about cars/motors especially when you don't have a single fact to back up your claim, it's counter productive and your claim that a SR doesn't have a aftermarket support not only makes you sound dumb but it might sway some one who would have enjoyed the motor more then a KA-T not go that route because he/she now believes you and didn't get a SR, now I'm not saying that person who didn't get the SR isn't just as ignorant (if not more so) because he/she didn't look into the after market support for themselves but if you get enough people to think some thing then it seems like a fact because every one says so, now I'm not trying to say that anyone who said anything one way or the other is dumb or anything just please don't say such absurd things. I think that might be why everyone is under the assumption that stock KA rods can handle hella boost if ya just get them shot peened, I'm not sayin that in some cases they won't hold, just something that was all ready shotpeened at the factory and designed to take 180hp all day long *might* not hold up to the additional forces of boost and added heat, metal fatigues over time and sometimes there are just flukes either way don't believe every thing that is said, and if it's just your opinion don't present it as fact please.

On another note I think sometimes we forget what the original question was, why we went KA-T or SR, Mine was kinda a matter of passing admissions with ODBII where my car gets plugged in and kinda had to have a KA in there because they didn't put it on the rollers so I couldn't just turn down the boost (and retune) on a SR and pass, I looked into a SR swap but I couldn't find the info to know for 100% that it would pass admissions when it was plugged in through the OBDII port, hell it could be as simple as the SR just can't be throwing a code when it is plugged in but I never did find out what EXACTLY the peeps at the admissions place read out of the car or what the SR ECU would send out, I would hate to do an engine swap (or see someone else do it) and fail admissions