I totally don't understand tipping... HELP!

[racerdx]

well first of all, idk where everyone is getting their numbers are but federal minimum wage is 7.25 and you cant go less than that per hour. in cali, you have to get paid 8/hr (the minimum) then if theres tip, it gets added. in some restauraunts, the tip every night gets combined and split among the workers. servers and cooks in some cases.

Like mentioned above me, "tipping" industries get away with a lot of lower wages. Google wages in Oklahoma (I believe lowest in country), for example. Both servers and valets are considered a tipping job, and so they make the state minimum for that category, something along the lines of $2.14/hr., Well below the federal minimum wage.

[crazspence]

well first of all, idk where everyone is getting their numbers are but federal minimum wage is 7.25 and you cant go less than that per hour. in cali, you have to get paid 8/hr (the minimum) then if theres tip, it gets added. in some restauraunts, the tip every night gets combined and split among the workers. servers and cooks in some cases.

Like mentioned above me, "tipping" industries get away with a lot of lower wages. Google wages in Oklahoma (I believe lowest in country), for example. Both servers and valets are considered a tipping job, and so they make the state minimum for that category, something along the lines of $2.14/hr., Well below the federal minimum wage.

but federal minimum > state minimum. only when state minimum is higher than federal, then you go with the state minimum. if the state minimum is less than federal, then federal law precede the states.you cant go less than $7.25/hr. but since you said that it was somewhere along the lines of $2.14 for the tipping job, they still have to be paid the differences if they arnt tipped enough.

[float_6969]

As a person who has served in the past, I'd like to chime in on this.

As has been stated, I feel the biggest reason to tip is to provide an incentive for the server to provide you with service better than what you would have received were they to receive a fixed wage. Serving is a pretty crappy job honestly, and a lot of that comes from the patrons of the restaurant. I would say about half of the population either tip poorly, or not at all. I have had patrons come into the restaurant, sit in my section, receive fantastic service from me, repeatedly compliment me on my service and even had them contact the management about my service, and STILL leave a poor tip. I could never get my head around that. One of the reason's I quit that industry.

At the time that I served, most servers earned $2.13/Hr + tips. As the server you paid a percentage of the pre-tax total to the table bussers, and a percentage of anything that had to come from the bar. This was regardless of whether you were tipped or not, so if I got stiffed from a table because there was a problem in the kitchen, that table cost ME money. Not the restaurant, ME. Most restaurants actually treat you as a sub-contractor. You collect the money from all of the tables, and at the end of the shift you pay the restaurant what you owe them for all of those tables, what you owe the bussers for clearing your tables (regardless of whether they cleared and cleaned them or not), and what you owe the bar for your drinks. What's left over is your "tips". You're supposed to claim your tips for tax purposes, but most servers don't claim all of their tips as paying little to no tax is one of the very few perks of being in the food service industry.

When you realize this, barring HORRIBLE service, from the SERVER (NOT the restaurant), there is no reason, whatsoever that you should leave any less than a 10% tip. Even if they were a bit slow and didn't keep your drinks filled all the time, it should still be 10%. I have NEVER in my life, stiffed a server, and since having worked in the industry, regardless of the situation, I never will. I've often said EVERYONE should have to serve tables for 6 months.

As far as the financial reasons, I would say it's not BS that it wouldn't cost us more. If you've ever worked as a server, you'd understand that the singular driving for behind good service is the tip. Without it, I would have to be paid a pretty hefty hourly wage ($12-$15/hr in this area) to provide good service without a tip. That's a big enough jump from the $2.13/hr that I was getting before. That increase in labor costs for the restaurant would increase the food costs to the consumer to the extent that it would completely change the market.

But I will say this. The pay is VERY unpredictable. There were more than a few times that I worked 2 doubles, 2 shifts Friday and 2 shifts Saturday, and earned nearly $1000 in CASH over those 2 days, PLUS my hourly wage (which was usually TOTALLY eaten up by taxes). That's pretty good money in anybody's book. But I could turn around and make less than half of that the next weekend working the same hours.

Long story short, tip your servers. They WILL remember you, and they DO talk, and not just within the restaurant. Most servers are friends with the ppl they work with and servers from other restaurants. Due to the hours you work, the only ppl you can hang out with are other servers. Also remember that there is a very high turnover rate in that industry, and it's not uncommon for one server to work at 3 different restaurants in the course of a year and to tell ppl about your horrible tip every time he/she see's you at every restaurant you visit that they work at. And if you think servers don't mess with your food if you're a crappy tipper, think again. Every restaurant I worked at had that happen on a regular basis.

You may not like it, but it's the way it is.

[PoorManQ45]

from your description it sounds like you were treated like a stripper! you had to pay the company their share!

that's not how things should work. the company should be paying you!

[Bubba1]

from your description it sounds like you were treated like a stripper! you had to pay the company their share!

that's not how things should work. the company should be paying you!

"Should" plus $1.75 might get you a cup of coffee, Brien. If you really despise the tip system, then only eat at places that don't have that service. Pretty simple.

[HashiriyaS14]

The whole "your food is cheaper" argument doesn't work if you are tipping. If I buy a meal that on the menu costs $60.00 but then tip 20% it costs me $72.00 Now if that server serves 20 parties that night at that rate they have made $240 in tips If they make $4 an hour and work an 8 hour shift that's $32. That's $272 for a nights work, $34 dollars an hour. That is substantially more than I make an hour and I have a s*** more responsibility that a frigging waitress and i can't hide my earnings like someone collecting tips can. It's BS.

The only problem with this is that it is based on a high-traffic weekend evening.

The entire restaurant business, not just wait staff, is effectively operating at a loss for their time, trouble, and expenditure in every service window other than Friday and Saturday night. This isn't the case everywhere of course, some places are packed every day, but it's the norm.

You can't take a 20-party shift and then multiply by five to calculate weekly take-home.


Somehow I've become an advocate for the wait staff of America in this thread, and I don't mean to be, but I just want to articulate the ways in which it is different from other forms of employment.

[PoorManQ45]

from your description it sounds like you were treated like a stripper! you had to pay the company their share!

that's not how things should work. the company should be paying you!

"Should" plus $1.75 might get you a cup of coffee, Brien. If you really despise the tip system, then only eat at places that don't have that service. Pretty simple.

I can choose to disagree with a practice while still participating in it. It is a custom here, I understand that.

I just don't understand why most of you guys are supporting this practice when most of the rest of the world has already proven that this tipping system is not needed.

How about instead of saying that you won't get good service without tips we ask someone that lives in a country where tipping is not a custom.

Ozzy: When you go out to eat how is the service that you receive? Is the wait staff generally happy? Is the food served in a timely manner? Any other insight?

[AZhitman]

I can choose to disagree with a practice while still participating in it. It is a custom here, I understand that.

How about instead of saying that you won't get good service without tips we ask someone that lives in a country where tipping is not a custom.

Ozzy: When you go out to eat how is the service that you receive? Is the wait staff generally happy? Is the food served in a timely manner? Any other insight?

Who the hell are you and what are you doing logged in as PMQ?

[PEZi]

tipping is the very reason i wish to get back into the casual dining business.... i used to hate coming home smelling like fajitas every night... but damn is tip money good

i also love pouring drinks.... so maybe i'll look into a bartender spot... the clubs downtown get crazy busy and it is not hard believe that they would make $500 a NIGHT

[RCA]

One person orders 6 drinks and then tips $10. If the bartender thinks that isn't enough, he will probably not give you priority service. But that's fine because you won't be ordering drinks any time soon.

In NJ, drinks cost around $8 each so I usually tip $2 a drink but I think that is an exception. When your at NICOfest $1 tip is fine.

That is ridiculous!

You're giving a 25% tip per drink for someone to simply mix a couple liquids!

At most, I will tip 10%. $1 per $10. I feel that even that is excessive.

I seriously do not understand why you guys are defending this crappy tradition.

There is no validity to the idea that without tips you would not receive good service.

Someone previously answered my question about plumbers and electricians not getting tips. The response was that they are already charging so much that they shouldn't be tipped. The problem with that is that the company typically charges ~$100/hr for an electrician, but pays the electrician ~$15~$20/hr. So this circumstances are the same as servers. The company is charging a large amount for the product/service, but paying the worker a very small portion.

Why is it that we expect good service from electricians and plumbers then?

If you pay an employee properly, you can expect good work from them. If they do not meet your criteria, they will not have a job for long!

Yeah I realize it is way over kill but if you don't do it, you have to fight with 20 other people. I want to drink, not waste my time waiting at a bar. My time is worth that $2 per drink but that doesn't make it right. It is just the way it is.

[Poyzinous]

I don't understand some of you. If you don't want to tip at a restaurant, buy food and eat at home. If you want someone to do all the work but digest the food for you and feed it to you, pay them for the service. If I want to eat at a restaurant, I go expecting to give someone a tip based on their service. I don't think I should have a socialist point of view where I should assume every waiter should get a small amount of money added to the time they spent on me or whatever mathematical conjugation people use to come up with something. I always sit down with a baseline of 15% gatuity. I add and subtract 1% based off of waiter attitude, attention, appearance, smell, booty (if applicable), desire to make my experience enjoyable, and understanding of my wants. I can leave as much as 25% or as little as 7.5%

[wingFeather]

Good point. Next time I will walk into the kitchen & tip them, since they are doing all the REAL WORK.

[AppleBonker]

Good point. Next time I will walk into the kitchen & tip them, since they are doing all the REAL WORK.

Is this sarcasm? I can't pick it up online all the time.

[Poyzinous]

i wish computers had built in sarcasm detectors.

[PoorManQ45]

I don't understand some of you. If you don't want to tip at a restaurant, buy food and eat at home. If you want someone to do all the work but digest the food for you and feed it to you, pay them for the service. If I want to eat at a restaurant, I go expecting to give someone a tip based on their service. I don't think I should have a socialist point of view where I should assume every waiter should get a small amount of money added to the time they spent on me or whatever mathematical conjugation people use to come up with something. I always sit down with a baseline of 15% gatuity. I add and subtract 1% based off of waiter attitude, attention, appearance, smell, booty (if applicable), desire to make my experience enjoyable, and understanding of my wants. I can leave as much as 25% or as little as 7.5%

This discussion is not about if we will tip or not, it is about the concept of tipping.

The United States is one of the few countries that institutes a tipping system.

Hopefully Ozzy can chime in about the level of service that is received in Australia.

You guys that are in support of the tipping system have still not explained the benefits of tipping over a proper hourly wage.

What proof do you have that a tip equates to good service? The only anecdotes that I have seen so far is that if you don't tip, you will receive bad service. These are not used as support as they only explain that servers have come to expect a tip.

Also, how does this compare to a higher hourly wage?

In every other service industry we are given a bill upfront and expect to receive good service. In the food service industry we are told what our price is, then we have to give even more money on top of that to get good service. How does that make sense?

*note, because some of you fail at reading comprehension* I disagree with the concept of tipping, but I will participate in it as that is the custom in this country.

[crazspence]

well i live in the states but have been back to the motherland(china) quite a few times and i can pretty much say the chinese sure the hell gives a better service than the americans do. in china, if you serve at a restaurant, youre expected to do a good job because you can be easily replaced. if i was unsatisfied with a certain server, you could probably talk to the restaurant manager and depending their previous actions, they could either walk off with a warning or be packing their personal belongings and leave before the meal was finished.

for those who have argued for the tipping practice i have a question for you guys. when you sign up for a job as a server, do you tell yourself that the quality of your service will parallel the amount of tips you receive? shouldnt you have personal pride in your work, no matter how s*** it may be? if not, then i guess im one of the few who takes pride in my work. i mean, for most people around the world, people are grateful for their jobs even if its a menial job because they know everyone can do this job and they can easily be replaced.

so i guess what im trying to get at is, when you get a job, you shouldnt expect more income than what is expected of you for the job. im not saying the extra money isnt good. but to me, it seems like servers these days want to be paid MUCH MUCH more than what is expected of their easy tasks. and honestly if i can distribute my tip i would easily give the cook, who has more skill put into his work, more tip than i give the servers.

[PEZi]

I don't understand some of you. If you don't want to tip at a restaurant, buy food and eat at home.

basically this....

if you want to take into account all the factors that go into menu pricing if tipping was taken out... you wouldn't be happy. the prices skyrocket when restaurants have to pay ALL their employees DOUBLE what they currently make. The result is that you pay the same, if not more in the end. So why not just tip accordingly? If they suck, let them know via tip. If they were a good server they will know it by the larger tip received. It's also possible your service would just always blow if the person knew they were already getting paid for serving you... Tip those that do good, don't tip those who suck or are ***holes. In the end, more people will provide good service for you hoping for tips, and you as the consumer will be more pleased.

[Rex]

but federal minimum > state minimum. only when state minimum is higher than federal, then you go with the state minimum. if the state minimum is less than federal, then federal law precede the states.you cant go less than $7.25/hr. but since you said that it was somewhere along the lines of $2.14 for the tipping job, they still have to be paid the differences if they arnt tipped enough.

Here's a link to the gov's poster
http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/ ... inwage.pdf
There's a section marked Tip Credit. It seems that if they don't make enough in tips to get to the minimum, the employer must make up the difference ... not sure how that's overseen or executed, but there clearly is a lower "start point" for "Tip earners".

One point for you guys to consider, is servers don't make tips during "off-peak" hours and if the service industry raised wages to offset a movement to "no tips", their prices would have to increase more than your standard tip amount, to make up for the additional labor costs during off peak.

At the end of the day, if you don't like the concept of tipping, then don't, but don't be surprised if you receive the items you order, but no "service" to go along with them.

[Jesda]

At the end of the day, if you don't like the concept of tipping, then don't, but don't be surprised if you receive the items you order, but no "service" to go along with them.

That's not very American.



Or... is that distinctly American?

[wingFeather]

the prices skyrocket when restaurants have to pay ALL their employees DOUBLE what they currently make.

If that were true, then restaurants in California (required to pay minimum wage) would be twice as expensive as everywhere else (which is not the case).

[crazspence]

but federal minimum > state minimum. only when state minimum is higher than federal, then you go with the state minimum. if the state minimum is less than federal, then federal law precede the states.you cant go less than $7.25/hr. but since you said that it was somewhere along the lines of $2.14 for the tipping job, they still have to be paid the differences if they arnt tipped enough.

Here's a link to the gov's poster
http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/ ... inwage.pdf
There's a section marked Tip Credit. It seems that if they don't make enough in tips to get to the minimum, the employer must make up the difference ... not sure how that's overseen or executed, but there clearly is a lower "start point" for "Tip earners".

One point for you guys to consider, is servers don't make tips during "off-peak" hours and if the service industry raised wages to offset a movement to "no tips", their prices would have to increase more than your standard tip amount, to make up for the additional labor costs during off peak.

At the end of the day, if you don't like the concept of tipping, then don't, but don't be surprised if you receive the items you order, but no "service" to go along with them.

care to read that entire paragraph before sitting me down for a lecture?

and if you had read my earlier posts in the thread, i never said i had a problem with tipping, i have a problem tipping servers who provide no service. theres a difference.

[AZhitman]

well i live in the states but have been back to the motherland(china) quite a few times and i can pretty much say the chinese sure the hell gives a better service than the americans do. in china, if you serve at a restaurant, youre expected to do a good job because you can be easily replaced. if i was unsatisfied with a certain server, you could probably talk to the restaurant manager and depending their previous actions, they could either walk off with a warning or be packing their personal belongings and leave before the meal was finished.

for those who have argued for the tipping practice i have a question for you guys. when you sign up for a job as a server, do you tell yourself that the quality of your service will parallel the amount of tips you receive? shouldnt you have personal pride in your work, no matter how s*** it may be? if not, then i guess im one of the few who takes pride in my work. i mean, for most people around the world, people are grateful for their jobs even if its a menial job because they know everyone can do this job and they can easily be replaced.

so i guess what im trying to get at is, when you get a job, you shouldnt expect more income than what is expected of you for the job. im not saying the extra money isnt good. but to me, it seems like servers these days want to be paid MUCH MUCH more than what is expected of their easy tasks. and honestly if i can distribute my tip i would easily give the cook, who has more skill put into his work, more tip than i give the servers.

^ This man speaks big truth. In China, people take PRIDE in their employment. Americans have become self-entitled bums.

To the next server who says something retarded like "everyone should work as a waiter in their life", I say bull****. Everyone should work as a roofer in Arizona. Everyone should work in the Psych E.R. at a county hospital. Everyone should be homeless for a month.

See how retarded that sounds? Your job ain't special, you're no more unappreciated than anyone else, and you don't work any harder than the rest of us. Spare me the boohoo.

If it's all contingent on the tip, then why does the manager wander around asking "how was everything?"

I'm gonna start tipping the cooks. Sorry, servers - You can be replaced by a touchscreen and a conveyor belt.

(Oh, and I still tip, but only because I may come back and eat there again...)

[Mr1der]

True - And when you consider you're paying $5-$8 for something that literally costs 50-80 CENTS, I'm sure they're fine with a little fudging for a good customer.

yup, I LOVE being a regular at a bar....s*** with the owners and they'll toss ya a free drink too....granted, I wind up just tipping more to cover the cost, but it's not asked of me.

[Dattebayo]

I hate becoming a regular at a bar, it makes me realize where all that money went to. I drink to forget, you see...

[Mr1der]

yeah...that part kinda sucks.

[Dattebayo]

Especially when you think the owner is a total douchenugget.

Most of the bars here that are cheap and fun are owned by said masses of douchery. AT least those places don't really have servers tho.

[PoorManQ45]

One point for you guys to consider, is servers don't make tips during "off-peak" hours and if the service industry raised wages to offset a movement to "no tips", their prices would have to increase more than your standard tip amount, to make up for the additional labor costs during off peak.

I don't believe that is true.

What would happen on off peak hours is the amount of wait staff would be reduced. This happens in every other type of job.

Got work for 5 people but have 10 people working for you? Well, 5 people aren't going to be working at that time. Currently there is usually an over abundance of wait staff on off peak hours. Trim the overhead.

Alright, because Ozzy seems to be locked up by his new woman I asked my Cousin-in-law who was born in England. He was able to define one large difference between English and American servers.

In England you order your food and drinks. You're served. Before the server leaves the table he/she says, "Is there anything else I can get for you?" If there is nothing, they leave. They do not return until you raise your hand to flag them down, but they respond immediately when flagged.

In America the waiter/waitress will constantly come to your table and ask you how everything is. If you'd like a refill. And other pleasantries.

This was really the only difference. The speed of service is about the same he said.

As a note, he said that he finds the constant visits by the wait staff to be annoying as they interrupt your conversation.

*edit* He did mention that the servers in England seem to be generally happier then those in America. Quoting him, "Most American servers don't seem genuinely happy."

[Dattebayo]

As a note, he said that he finds the constant visits by the wait staff to be annoying as they interrupt your conversation.

I heartily agree with your cuz in law. I do like the servers who ninja-fill your glass when it's empty, tho. Why ask when it's just some cheap soda or water anyway?

[AZhitman]

^ Yep.

I don't want to converse, exchange small talk, pleasantries, or tell a stranger about my day.

I want the stuff that the folks are cooking in the back to make it to my table so I can eat it. No need to ask me if I'd like more to drink - if I paid $4 for a soda, you can pretty much guess I'd like it to be refilled until I'm no longer at the table. Take my order, deliver the food, see if there's anything else we need, and I'll see you when it's time to pay the tab.

Deal?

[crazspence]

I'm gonna start tipping the cooks. Sorry, servers - You can be replaced by a touchscreen and a conveyor belt.

QFT

Quoting him, "Most American servers don't seem genuinely happy."

americans as a whole dont seem genuinely happy because they are never content with what they have. im not saying there arnt these people around the world but americans just seem to be good at expressing this. i tell them, if you think youre too damn good for this job, then quit your a** and go find something you feel youre good enough for, if not, then shut the f*** up and get your a** back to work.

being only 19, ive worked at some s*** jobs. some of them, i didnt even get paid for. when i was 9 i was helping out at my dads during a period where they needed an extra hand. you know what the job was? unwrapping candle the size of cup because they needed to be repackaged. i did this for about a month, from 8-5. yes 8 hours of repetitive child labor. you had to rip the clear plastic tape off from a candle and put it in a pile so that they could be re-wrapped. average time for 1 candle was 15 seconds, that make 4 per min and 8 hours = 480mins so you would be unwrapping 1920 candles a day. you get tired of that s***, FAST.

another job was helping out at the company my mom worked for. this one i got paid for. but guess what i did? i had to stay in a room where vitamin supplements were being mixed, oh and if youve never smelled raw fish oil extracts, then you wouldnt know what that smelled like. but i tell you, anything less than a gas mask wont help and i didnt have one of those. in that room, all you did was unpack boxes>take out bottles>unscrew the cap>then put another cap on. yes quite pointless but it was the job. got blisters all over my hand after the 1st day. did that for 2 weeks straight. and oh yea, you didnt get to sit down.

another job i did was work at McDs for 6 month. our franchise policy included delivering the tray of food to the customers table and you had to go wipe down their tables afterwards. but do we get tipped for that s***? f*** no we didnt. in a fast food restaurant, you had to put up with just as much if not more s***, than you would get at a sit down diner. when compared, you could say that a worker at a fast food restaurant provides better service than some servers do, but they dont get tipped at all. they just stand there making $8.00/hr.

those are just a few of the jobs ive had while growing up and i can EASILY say those jobs are much worst than being a server. anyways back to the main point of this thread. i personally think the concept of tipping has become a societal practice in america and it probably wont be changed. but on the other hand, i do feel servers attitudes should change their "i DGAF bout this job so unless you tip me, i DGAF bout you" attitude