I totally don't understand tipping... HELP!

[tigersharkdude]

$2-$3 -on orders under $30
15% on anything over $30 or at a nice restaurant

[breadbox]

I do 20% or more for good service.

The server always starts with a hundred points, they can only go down from there.

[HashiriyaS14]

This is the dumbest thread ever.

Tipping vs. paying the wait staff more is a zero-sum game for the consumer. If tipping went away, we'd all just end up paying 100% of whatever that lost revenue is.

If wait staff currently works for $X/hr plus $Y in tips, which in aggregate is above minimum wage, this is because that's what it costs to purchase that labor in the free marketplace. They won't work for less than that. If tips were removed, wages would have to be increased proportionally to take up the slack, and every dime of this would just be passed on to the cost of your meal. It's not like restaurant operators are suddenly going to be cool with earning lower margins when they already know diners will pay the $Y.

Tipping is good because it creates increased motivation for the servers to perform well. If it was built into their normal wages, that incentive would be removed. It is good that diners have this power, it allows us to pay less when we genuinely think we have received service of a lower quality than is deserved. The BASELINE in the United States for decent human beings at a normal restaurant is 15%, it is not 0%. If you got shoddy service, then feel free to pay 10% or 5% or 0% or whatever, but for forgettably competent service and an uneventful meal, you pay 15% or you're probably an a55hole.

Admittedly there are some restaurants that pay servers considerably more and then they get tips on top, but this is functionally the same as a restaurant where the average check for 4 people is $600 rather than $60. Those jobs are proportionally harder to get and thus they pay proportionally more, just like in any other industry. Both situations are more desirable than being on wait staff at, say, Denny's.


EDIT:

Waiters talk to each other and you might face retaliation in ways you won't notice.

^^
In case anyone didn't read this part, it translates to: "Someone is going to mix spooge into your food"

[crazspence]

well first of all, idk where everyone is getting their numbers are but federal minimum wage is 7.25 and you cant go less than that per hour. in cali, you have to get paid 8/hr (the minimum) then if theres tip, it gets added. in some restauraunts, the tip every night gets combined and split among the workers. servers and cooks in some cases.

and heres something that you can try if you want good service. when you sit down at a restaraunt and they first bring out your drink, put a stack of 1's and 5's under your cup. and put it where the servers can see it. as the service goes on, if they're doing bad, just take away some of the bills and boy do the servers notice.

[anti_flag_army]

I tip completely based on service, not based on the price of my meal. I mean look at it this way, the guy at Dennys probably busts his a** way harder than the guy at Ruth's Chris Steakhouse, but who earns more money just based on what the meal costs?

And that argument about the food costing more is BS, the steakhouse I mentioned has an $80 steak, I doubt that it would turn into a 96 dollar steak (based on a 20% tip) if the waiters were paid more. I have never gone to a sit down restaurant and thought "Man this food sure is cheap, I better pay the waiter so im not ripping off the place"

[Bubba1]

well first of all, idk where everyone is getting their numbers are but federal minimum wage is 7.25 and you cant go less than that per hour. in cali, you have to get paid 8/hr (the minimum) then if theres tip, it gets added. in some restauraunts, the tip every night gets combined and split among the workers. servers and cooks in some cases.

and heres something that you can try if you want good service. when you sit down at a restaraunt and they first bring out your drink, put a stack of 1's and 5's under your cup. and put it where the servers can see it. as the service goes on, if they're doing bad, just take away some of the bills and boy do the servers notice.

I don't see that working as a cheapskate will simply yank all the bills anyway. Listen, very few people enjoy paying out tips.. So If it offends you that much to part with the frigging $20 bill that says "Happy 13th birthday, love Grandma", just don't go to the places or use services that are set up where you are expected to pay tips..

[crazspence]

i never said i was a cheapskate. for your information, i pay 15% for lunch and 20% for dinner for dine in restaurants. it was just a suggestion to get a better service. i tip solely on the service i receive from the servers. i got by the rule of, "if they dont give a s***, then i dont give a s***". and it usually makes or breaks the chances of me returning to the restaurant. and any server with half a brain cell knows that you dont take the money on the table when the customer is there. suppose i leave my wallet on the table, i dont suppose a server will come down on it and take it from me? and to correct your statement, very few people enjoy paying out tips because they get s*** service. i have no problem paying for tip if i the service is good. tip is just a means of getting yourself prioritized and feel important at a restaurant.

[Bubba1]

i never said i was a cheapskate. for your information, i pay 15% for lunch and 20% for dinner for dine in restaurants. it was just a suggestion to get a better service. i tip solely on the service i receive from the servers. i got by the rule of, "if they dont give a s***, then i dont give a s***". and it usually makes or breaks the chances of me returning to the restaurant. and any server with half a brain cell knows that you dont take the money on the table when the customer is there. suppose i leave my wallet on the table, i dont suppose a server will come down on it and take it from me? and to correct your statement, very few people enjoy paying out tips because they get s*** service. i have no problem paying for tip if i the service is good. tip is just a means of getting yourself prioritized and feel important at a restaurant.

I never said you were. I said A cheapskate would remove all the money. Unless you're nickname is "A", I was speaking hypothetically.

And the issue was not whether to tip for bad service, but tipping in general.

[Space Monkey]

in some restauraunts, the tip every night gets combined and split among the workers. servers and cooks in some cases.

This is where i get ticked. This is how most restaurants work in Canada. Min wage is $8/hour. When a waiter/tress serves you *they have to pay out the cooks tip automatically*. This means they just lost money by serving you. IF you end up tipping, it doesn't even go to them! it goes in a pot and EVERYONE gets a piece of that pot! Even the dishwasher!

I don't mind tipping for good service at anything, but the tip better damn well go to the person who just impressed me.

[ADDirishboy]

well first of all, idk where everyone is getting their numbers are but federal minimum wage is 7.25 and you cant go less than that per hour. in cali, you have to get paid 8/hr (the minimum) then if theres tip, it gets added. in some restauraunts, the tip every night gets combined and split among the workers. servers and cooks in some cases.

Restaurants and valet services can. I've done both. When I was waiting tables, the minimum wage was 7.00/hour. I got $3/hour + tips. Always made out better than $7/hour after tips. When I did valet, the minimum wage was 6.50/hour. I got paid $4.00/hour and averaged, after tips, about $15/hour on weekdays and $25-30/hour on weekends. But I worked valet at a 4 1/2 star hotel in Scottsdale, so no one gave a damn about throwing you a $20 every time you got their car.

Even if you don't care about how the valet treats your car it still is a good idea to treat them well. There are instances of valets stealing personal belongings from a vehicle (this does not apply to the majority of valets, but it does happen). If something is missing from your car and you don't notice right away (meaning after you leave the establishment) it can be pretty difficult to get any kind of restitution.

For the most part, I never messed with anyones car. Occasionally we would get a customer who would be particularly nasty and we'd find little ways of screwing with them. Moving the rear view mirror from it's original position, playing with the seat adjustments so they would have to dial it back in to their liking, etc. The only time I know of anybody stealing anything was when a pizza boy came to deliver a pizza and was the biggest d!ck I've ever met. One of the guys took his car, found the pizza boy's bag of weed, and took it.

[93coupe]

Joel, quit hurting people's feelings, would ya?

You walk into a place of business usually knowing if you're going to be required to tip. Don't like that idea? Don't use their services. Simple as that.

/thread.

[breadbox]

Most places I've worked the server splits with bar staff, but not bar staff with servers.

[93coupe]

This is where i get ticked. This is how most restaurants work in Canada. Min wage is $8/hour. When a waiter/tress serves you *they have to pay out the cooks tip automatically*. This means they just lost money by serving you. IF you end up tipping, it doesn't even go to them! it goes in a pot and EVERYONE gets a piece of that pot! Even the dishwasher!

I don't mind tipping for good service at anything, but the tip better damn well go to the person who just impressed me.

I am paying for good food served to me in a timely fashion, politely on a clean plate. Why shouldn't part of my tip go to the people that cook my food and wash the dishes?

[crazspence]

in some restauraunts, the tip every night gets combined and split among the workers. servers and cooks in some cases.

This is where i get ticked. This is how most restaurants work in Canada. Min wage is $8/hour. When a waiter/tress serves you *they have to pay out the cooks tip automatically*. This means they just lost money by serving you. IF you end up tipping, it doesn't even go to them! it goes in a pot and EVERYONE gets a piece of that pot! Even the dishwasher!

I don't mind tipping for good service at anything, but the tip better damn well go to the person who just impressed me.

and you gotta think about the service as a whole. the server doesnt make the food, they just serve them. if only the serve gets $$ for carrying a plate 20 feet then why should the cook bother to speed things up? so basically servers usually split X amount with the cooks so that with the combined service, they hope to get a bigger tip at the end. whole concept of you scratch my back and i scratch your back.

[Bubba1]

Joel, quit hurting people's feelings, would ya?

You walk into a place of business usually knowing if you're going to be required to tip. Don't like that idea? Don't use their services. Simple as that.

/thread.

I'll try.

[Ozzie]

This is the dumbest thread ever.

I have to apologise (for the second time in this thread!)
I made this thread because I don't understand how much I should give, and to whom.
When I researched it online, I found that minimum wage varies in different states, and was told to adjust the tip accordingly!

Seeing as it is quite likely I will be visiting the US in May next year, I thought I had better try and get a better understanding of what to do.

Remember, I live in a country where the price I see on the menu, is all I have to pay.
The price of a hotel room per night, is all I have to pay.
The employers pay their staff more than $7 an hour, so I don't have to worry about giving them any extra.

I'll just have to make sure I am always with someone when I go out, so they can help me.

[HashiriyaS14]

I have to apologise (for the second time in this thread!)
I made this thread because I don't understand how much I should give, and to whom.
When I researched it online, I found that minimum wage varies in different states, and was told to adjust the tip accordingly!

Seeing as it is quite likely I will be visiting the US in May next year, I thought I had better try and get a better understanding of what to do.

Remember, I live in a country where the price I see on the menu, is all I have to pay.
The price of a hotel room per night, is all I have to pay.
The employers pay their staff more than $7 an hour, so I don't have to worry about giving them any extra.

I'll just have to make sure I am always with someone when I go out, so they can help me.

For what it's worth, I wasn't referring to you. I know tipping conventions are DRASTICALLY different elsewhere in the world, I wouldn't expect the US system to make sense to anyone who isn't from here. In Japan, for instance, there is barely any tipping.

I was more referring to the people who ARE from here, who know damn well why it works the way it does, and still go places and tip nothing.

You were asking a perfectly valid question.

[Bubba1]

I have to apologise (for the second time in this thread!)
I made this thread because I don't understand how much I should give, and to whom.
When I researched it online, I found that minimum wage varies in different states, and was told to adjust the tip accordingly!

Seeing as it is quite likely I will be visiting the US in May next year, I thought I had better try and get a better understanding of what to do.

Remember, I live in a country where the price I see on the menu, is all I have to pay.
The price of a hotel room per night, is all I have to pay.
The employers pay their staff more than $7 an hour, so I don't have to worry about giving them any extra.

I'll just have to make sure I am always with someone when I go out, so they can help me.

For what it's worth, I wasn't referring to you. I know tipping conventions are DRASTICALLY different elsewhere in the world, I wouldn't expect the US system to make sense to anyone who isn't from here. In Japan, for instance, there is barely any tipping.

I was more referring to the people who ARE from here, who know damn well why it works the way it does, and still go places and tip nothing.

You were asking a perfectly valid question.

Ozzie, this link will give you a general idea of what's traditionally expected for tips in this country. If you're coming to NICOfest, we don't normally stay at luxury hotels that have concierges, bellhops, or valets, so there won't be THAT much tipping going on.

http://www.emilypost.com/out-and-about/ ... guidelines

[skydragoness]

This is the dumbest thread ever.

Tipping vs. paying the wait staff more is a zero-sum game for the consumer. If tipping went away, we'd all just end up paying 100% of whatever that lost revenue is.

If wait staff currently works for $X/hr plus $Y in tips, which in aggregate is above minimum wage, this is because that's what it costs to purchase that labor in the free marketplace. They won't work for less than that. If tips were removed, wages would have to be increased proportionally to take up the slack, and every dime of this would just be passed on to the cost of your meal. It's not like restaurant operators are suddenly going to be cool with earning lower margins when they already know diners will pay the $Y.

Tipping is good because it creates increased motivation for the servers to perform well. If it was built into their normal wages, that incentive would be removed. It is good that diners have this power, it allows us to pay less when we genuinely think we have received service of a lower quality than is deserved. The BASELINE in the United States for decent human beings at a normal restaurant is 15%, it is not 0%. If you got shoddy service, then feel free to pay 10% or 5% or 0% or whatever, but for forgettably competent service and an uneventful meal, you pay 15% or you're probably an a55hole.

Admittedly there are some restaurants that pay servers considerably more and then they get tips on top, but this is functionally the same as a restaurant where the average check for 4 people is $600 rather than $60. Those jobs are proportionally harder to get and thus they pay proportionally more, just like in any other industry. Both situations are more desirable than being on wait staff at, say, Denny's.


EDIT:

Waiters talk to each other and you might face retaliation in ways you won't notice.

^^
In case anyone didn't read this part, it translates to: "Someone is going to mix spooge into your food"

^THIS

[Jesda]

Its NOT a stupid thread. Its a subject Americans like to gloss over because its an awkward and uncomfortable part of the direct relationship between paying customers and low-wage employees. Usually, the wages of entry-level employees are handled by owners and managers, not directly by customers. We Americans like to sweep it under the rug like everything else. A foreign perspective on the matter is quite valuable in examining our often bizarre values and customs.

My favorite complaint is, "If you cant afford to tip, dont eat out!" My favorite response is, "Then I wont. Good luck finding a full time acting gig, fa**ot!"

I tip routinely 20-50% depending on the level of service, but I don't eat out that often. So, compare my occasional table at 30% to a frequent diner at 15%. The cheapskate will generate more revenue for the restaurant and more income for the server.

As for people who piss and moan, "OH ITS HARD WORK YOUVE NEVER DONE IT", guess what, I have. It sucks hardcore, so I went back to school. There's a f*** up mentality in this country that seems to suggest that having an entry-level crap job is some kind of virtuous act worthy of great reward.

This of course excludes high-end establishments with thoroughly trained servers who have genuine culinary knowledge, but that accounts for less than 1% of restaurants. Usually, we're talking about the guy at Chilis who puts a bowl of microwaved slop and domestic beer on your table.

Being a waitress sucks? Move up in the world and stop crying.


There was another thread on NICO years ago that discussed tipping service writers. Yes, after paying $120 an hour for repairs, people on this forum suggested spending even more. Tipping as a reward for unusually good and prompt service I can understand, like a box of doughnuts or a gift certificate. I love giving gift certificates to people who provide me with repeatedly high levels of service without expectations of anything more. When a gift is a SURPRISE, it is a REWARD.

But EXPECTING to ROUTINELY give a tip to COMMISSIONED service writers to PREEMPTIVELY ENCOURAGE AND HOPE for good service (rather than as a reward after the fact) is a total crock of idiocy. If someone doesn't deliver without an expectation of additional rewards, they should find another line of work.

Americans are morons.

[Jesda]

Also..

There's a huge Facebook group of servers and waiters complaining about tipping. The expectations of wait staff is that an 18% tip is the BASELINE, something they deserve regardless of the quality or level of service received. This negates the idea that tipping is a reward.

Psychology 101 -- If you give a dog a treat every single time it sits, it will respond less eagerly than when you give it a treat 50% of the time. The point isn't to stop tipping half the time to play mind games with your server. Rather, the high expectation level has numbed the incentive for good service.

[Ozzie]

Ozzie, this link will give you a general idea of what's traditionally expected for tips in this country. If you're coming to NICOfest, we don't normally stay at luxury hotels that have concierges, bellhops, or valets, so there won't be THAT much tipping going on.

http://www.emilypost.com/out-and-about/ ... guidelines

I'm more worried about the drinks tipping..... I'm gonna go broke!
Do the bellhops get angry if I carry my own bags to my own room?

Like I said, I think I will have to make sure I am with someone so they can help me out with the tipping thing.

I'm gonna make more of these threads as I think of stuff..... so bear with me.

[Dattebayo]

Also..

There's a huge Facebook group of servers and waiters complaining about tipping. The expectations of wait staff is that an 18% tip is the BASELINE, something they deserve regardless of the quality or level of service received. This negates the idea that tipping is a reward.

When the restaurant pays only $3 an hour, tips become expected as defined by the house.

I still don't understand HOW it's even legal to have two separate minimum wages. Seems to me the dems should have thought of that one a long time ago...

[Dattebayo]

I'm more worried about the drinks tipping..... I'm gonna go broke!

You're gonna go broke from buying drinks at restaurants anyway, it ain't cheap over here to get soused in an establishment. (in the cities, generally speaking)

[Bubba1]

Ozzie, this link will give you a general idea of what's traditionally expected for tips in this country. If you're coming to NICOfest, we don't normally stay at luxury hotels that have concierges, bellhops, or valets, so there won't be THAT much tipping going on.

http://www.emilypost.com/out-and-about/ ... guidelines

I'm more worried about the drinks tipping..... I'm gonna go broke!
Do the bellhops get angry if I carry my own bags to my own room?

Like I said, I think I will have to make sure I am with someone so they can help me out with the tipping thing.

I'm gonna make more of these threads as I think of stuff..... so bear with me.

No problem. As far as bellhops. No, they won't care if you carry your own. Besides, there are not many hotels in the Carlisle area that even employ bellhops or valets. Luggage handling in Carlisle is pretty much "do it yourself". Though many hotels/motels provide a limited number of free luggage carts to help you get your stuff to/from your room in one trip. No tipping, You simply return the cart to the hotel lobby (or give it someone else that needs it) when you finish.

As far as bar tips, If you travel all the way to Carlisle, I'm confident several people will want to buy you drinks. That should result in a much more reasonable bill for you if your liver holds up.

[Jesda]

When the restaurant pays only $3 an hour, tips become expected as defined by the house.

I still don't understand HOW it's even legal to have two separate minimum wages. Seems to me the dems should have thought of that one a long time ago...

If they piss and moan some more, I'd be in favor of paying servers no hourly wage at all. If they're so awesome, they can directly earn 100% of their income and become independent contractors for the restaurant.

Those acting classes must cost hundreds of dollars.

[AZhitman]

Its NOT a stupid thread. Its a subject Americans like to gloss over because its an awkward and uncomfortable part of the direct relationship between paying customers and low-wage employees. Usually, the wages of entry-level employees are handled by owners and managers, not directly by customers. We Americans like to sweep it under the rug like everything else. A foreign perspective on the matter is quite valuable in examining our often bizarre values and customs.

My favorite complaint is, "If you cant afford to tip, dont eat out!" My favorite response is, "Then I wont. Good luck finding a full time acting gig, fa**ot!"

I tip routinely 20-50% depending on the level of service, but I don't eat out that often. So, compare my occasional table at 30% to a frequent diner at 15%. The cheapskate will generate more revenue for the restaurant and more income for the server.

As for people who piss and moan, "OH ITS HARD WORK YOUVE NEVER DONE IT", guess what, I have. It sucks hardcore, so I went back to school. There's a f***** up mentality in this country that seems to suggest that having an entry-level crap job is some kind of virtuous act worthy of great reward.

This of course excludes high-end establishments with thoroughly trained servers who have genuine culinary knowledge, but that accounts for less than 1% of restaurants. Usually, we're talking about the guy at Chilis who puts a bowl of microwaved slop and domestic beer on your table.

Being a waitress sucks? Move up in the world and stop crying.


There was another thread on NICO years ago that discussed tipping service writers. Yes, after paying $120 an hour for repairs, people on this forum suggested spending even more. Tipping as a reward for unusually good and prompt service I can understand, like a box of doughnuts or a gift certificate. I love giving gift certificates to people who provide me with repeatedly high levels of service without expectations of anything more. When a gift is a SURPRISE, it is a REWARD.

But EXPECTING to ROUTINELY give a tip to COMMISSIONED service writers to PREEMPTIVELY ENCOURAGE AND HOPE for good service (rather than as a reward after the fact) is a total crock of idiocy. If someone doesn't deliver without an expectation of additional rewards, they should find another line of work.

Americans are morons.

Have I told you today how much I love you?

I couldn't have written it better myself.

I dislike the process of tipping. This doesn't mean I don't do it, but honestly, it feels like extortion to me.

Some toolbag calls me a "cheapskate" because I drop 15% instead of 18%, yet I've contributed more to the economy in the past year than he's contributed in his whole underachieving life.

Paying a fee to avoid bad things happening to you is called extortion. To those in the service industry: Just because you don't get the tip you think you expected does NOT authorize you to mess with my food, mistreat my car, delay my order, or treat me as a customer ANY differently than you'd treat your own mother.

Mess with my food and you'd better be a ninja about it - I'll be perfectly happy to meet you after your shift and ensure you eat through a straw for the rest of your natural life. Accidents happen, and I have a good attorney.

Ozzie, don't stress over it. 99% of the stuff you're gonna do when you visit won't involve tipping. Tip your waiter 15% on a meal, give an extra buck for a beer, carry your own crap to your hotel room, and you'll be fine.

[krimsonviper]

I tip if the service is good. If it's bad, I don't tip and never come back. I don't want my food screwed with. The amount of tip is based on how well they do. Generally 15% and it works it's way up. That's how I work.

@ everyones idealology, tipping is a good way to keep your customers happy by forcing the worker to think twice about slacking. The only problem nowadays is that the wages are getting higher and higher, and essentially making tipping obsolete IMO. Like a few people have mentioned, it's a priority system and a way to keep costs down. Blame inflation for the prices of your meals.

[krimsonviper]

Also I abso-freaking-lutely hate gratuity charges. I feel like cutting that part out and pay what's left of it and tip accordingly, but I'm afraid there's some kind of law behind it and just pay it and leave no tip. The place I thoroughly remembered that rape still gave me good service, but it just irritates me that I'm forced to pay it because it could have gone the opposite direction and I'd still be forced to pay it. I haven't been back since.

[HashiriyaS14]

words

I can't really disagree with anything you posted, you outlined all the negatives of the tipping practice.

The only issue with it is that, again, if *everyone* stopped tipping, they'd just have to pay the servers more, and those dollars would go into the check and we wouldn't really be able to individually influence servers to do a good job. It wouldn't be catastrophic, I'd still be paying the same, but

Waiters as a group demanding a certain percentage as a baseline makes no sense (although I'm not doubting they said it). The total take-home depends ENORMOUSLY on where you work. Getting 15% at a $200/person restaurant is better than getting 30% at Applebee's.

I'll admit that demanding 18% for mediocre service is obnoxious, but people who insist on paying 0% are equally obnoxious. The conventionally-accepted 15% for forgettably pleasant service is a nice middle ground, IMO.


I don't think it's got anything to do with people doing a manual job being somehow lauded as virtuous. It's a supply/demand dynamic. If we all stopped tipping, waiters wouldn't suddenly do their jobs for $3/hr, they'd quit go work at call centers or do something else. Owners would have to pick up that tab, and they're going to pass it along to their consumers as said consumers have already shown a willingness to pay it. It's zero sum, not worth getting worked up about.