I put a deposit down on a new car today (BRZ)

[MinisterofDOOM]

- With such a beautiful mirror-like shine, I now have to see my ugly mug in the reflection every time I look directly at the car.. not good!

I can relate.

[flohtingPoint]

I drove one of these this weekend and found it pretty hard to believe it has 200 hp. When jumping from an NC Miata/RX8, I found myself missing the power of it, which is not a good sign. I'm not certain if it's the emissions equipment or something choking the car, but the output is heavily lacking. Power (or lack there of) aside, it's fairly nimble and competent once you get rid of the garbage stock tires. I'm not really a street tire person in the least, but the stockers that come with this and the FRS are junk (they're Prius tires, not kidding). Right now I'm much less interested in what tons of aftermarket gear will do to the car, I want to see what happens when it's fitted with proper dampers, a decent bar and run with some A6's on. I'm not entirely convinced it can keep up with C-Stock speeds, but it will be very interesting to see the results.

[Eikon]

I drove one of these this weekend and found it pretty hard to believe it has 200 hp. When jumping from an NC Miata/RX8, I found myself missing the power of it, which is not a good sign. I'm not certain if it's the emissions equipment or something choking the car, but the output is heavily lacking. Power (or lack there of) aside, it's fairly nimble and competent once you get rid of the garbage stock tires. I'm not really a street tire person in the least, but the stockers that come with this and the FRS are junk (they're Prius tires, not kidding). Right now I'm much less interested in what tons of aftermarket gear will do to the car, I want to see what happens when it's fitted with proper dampers, a decent bar and run with some A6's on. I'm not entirely convinced it can keep up with C-Stock speeds, but it will be very interesting to see the results.

Must not be too bad a car if Sam Strano owns one now...

[flohtingPoint]

I drove one of these this weekend and found it pretty hard to believe it has 200 hp. When jumping from an NC Miata/RX8, I found myself missing the power of it, which is not a good sign. I'm not certain if it's the emissions equipment or something choking the car, but the output is heavily lacking. Power (or lack there of) aside, it's fairly nimble and competent once you get rid of the garbage stock tires. I'm not really a street tire person in the least, but the stockers that come with this and the FRS are junk (they're Prius tires, not kidding). Right now I'm much less interested in what tons of aftermarket gear will do to the car, I want to see what happens when it's fitted with proper dampers, a decent bar and run with some A6's on. I'm not entirely convinced it can keep up with C-Stock speeds, but it will be very interesting to see the results.

Must not be too bad a car if Sam Strano owns one now...

Didn't say it's a bad car, just that 200 hp sounds like too high of a number for the lack of umph it has.

Sam bought it to develop it, his car that he actually runs is still his Z06. I was out there this weekend when he was testing the car for the first time. Sam was on it through the course but the times were not there, but this was his first time out in the vehicle and there is still dev room for the car's class. I'm certain he will sort it out.

[Eikon]

Did you push it to higher rev ranges? I haven't done it myself yet, but I did a ride-along with a former SCCA national champ and I thought the car was reasonably quick in higher rpm ranges.

From what I've been reading, it dyno's at about 160 whp. I agree with you.. it's weak. But i've seen some dyno tests for intakes, exhausts, etc.. and it does sound like there is power to be made through simple bolt on mods. I wouldn't be surprised to see people pick up 20whp with intake, headers with high flow cats and exhaust systems.

There is also a very frustrating dip in torque from about 3000 rpms to about 4200 rpms.. Speculation has come to two consclusions.. #1.. it is intentional to help with emissions and mpgs at highway rpms. #2.. it has to do with the direct injection system working in concert with standard injectors.. some crossover effect.. Anyhow.. it seems like there might be some great potential from ECU tuning as well.

Either way... I think to be an excellent car, it needs about 50 whp more than it has now. With a low boost forced induction system it could be a fantastic car.

[flohtingPoint]

Did you push it to higher rev ranges? I haven't done it myself yet, but I did a ride-along with a former SCCA national champ and I thought the car was reasonably quick in higher rpm ranges.

From what I've been reading, it dyno's at about 160 whp. I agree with you.. it's weak. But i've seen some dyno tests for intakes, exhausts, etc.. and it does sound like there is power to be made through simple bolt on mods. I wouldn't be surprised to see people pick up 20whp with intake, headers with high flow cats and exhaust systems.

There is also a very frustrating dip in torque from about 3000 rpms to about 4200 rpms.. Speculation has come to two consclusions.. #1.. it is intentional to help with emissions and mpgs at highway rpms. #2.. it has to do with the direct injection system working in concert with standard injectors.. some crossover effect.. Anyhow.. it seems like there might be some great potential from ECU tuning as well.

Either way... I think to be an excellent car, it needs about 50 whp more than it has now. With a low boost forced induction system it could be a fantastic car.

Pushed it through the extents of an autocross course, so yea, was slamming rev limiter in 2nd.

Who did you ride with?

[Eikon]

Amdrew Pollatta. I guess he won nationals for one of the classes in 2010. Not sure what class though.

[flohtingPoint]

He drives F-Prep in a silver'ish Evo, won STU in 2010. He can definitely hustle a car around.

[themadscientist]

Sounds like the new 240SX,,,,win?

[Eikon]

Sounds like the new 240SX,,,,win?

Agreed.. Great platform, but not a super powerful motor. It's actually less expensive than the 240 was if you adjust for inflation and compare to competitors.

The AE86 is clearly the correct lineage.

[flohtingPoint]

Sounds like the new 240SX,,,,win?

Agreed.. Great platform, but not a super powerful motor. It's actually less expensive than the 240 was if you adjust for inflation and compare to competitors.

The AE86 is clearly the correct lineage.

Neither are, both are REALLY BAD CARS in terms of design. Balance of the 86's was terrible, not easy to corner-weight either due to its design. I put a lot of countless hours into making both of these cars function in a competitive way, both are massive pains in the a**. You pick apart the suspension setup of the 86 and it's total trash. Compare it to the MR2 (which wasn't exactly good, but better than the Corolla), which was created at the same time, and it's foolish how bad (and behind the times) the 86 is. A 240SX actually looks intelligent compared to an 86's layout. I didn't beat everyone in 2010 at NICOFEST because I had a superior car (100hp definitely wasn't beneficial), I just had hours upon hours of dev and seat time.

As much as a setback the motor is for the FR-S/BRZ (and really, you're getting what you paid for, it's sub 30k), the balance is not bad at all. Sure, the front end of the car is not optimal with the mcstrut, but at least it got the rear correct. It's so far from a crappy 86, the only reason they related it to the car was to get the fanboys (which is a smart marketing move since the fanboys go to all the meets and spam boards with their opinion and rave about lore).

Honestly, it's a good thing that it's nothing like the AE86, you dont have to worry about wrenching on the car and thinking "WTF did they do this for..."

[themadscientist]

Neither are, both are REALLY BAD CARS in terms of design. Balance of the 86's was terrible, not easy to corner-weight either due to its design. I put a lot of countless hours into making both of these cars function in a competitive way, both are massive pains in the a**. You pick apart the suspension setup of the 86 and it's total trash. Compare it to the MR2 (which wasn't exactly good, but better than the Corolla), which was created at the same time, and it's foolish how bad (and behind the times) the 86 is. A 240SX actually looks intelligent compared to an 86's layout. I didn't beat everyone in 2010 at NICOFEST because I had a superior car (100hp definitely wasn't beneficial), I just had hours upon hours of dev and seat time.

As much as a setback the motor is for the FR-S/BRZ (and really, you're getting what you paid for, it's sub 30k), the balance is not bad at all. Sure, the front end of the car is not optimal with the mcstrut, but at least it got the rear correct. It's so far from a crappy 86, the only reason they related it to the car was to get the fanboys (which is a smart marketing move since the fanboys go to all the meets and spam boards with their opinion and rave about lore).

Honestly, it's a good thing that it's nothing like the AE86, you dont have to worry about wrenching on the car and thinking "WTF did they do this for..."

Yeah, 86s suck.

Watch that MRS walk away, from, wait, that's not what happened at all!
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II4U04Ual4M[/youtube]

That platform was successful for a reason. lucky Toyota didn't ask your opinion. They might have scrapped the whole race team.

Same thing with the S chassis. People make those things dance with virtually no effort.

If you don't like them, fine, but don't try to pass off your opinion for fact. Running around cones in a parking lot is just one type of racing. It's super cute.

I remember the good old days. We would all go out to takoyama and talk trash then two guys would face off. We would pull both cars on the scales and check corner weights and the winner would get free tofu for a week.

It would always get interrupted though by these people in Silvias and Hachi Rokus going above the posted speedlimit really close to each other. I honestly don't know why they didn't all crash, they were so unbalanced.

[Eikon]

[bigbadberry3]

That plate is worth more than the car

[Eikon]

Still have only 800 miles on it. Maybe I'll get it over 1000 next weekend and then I won't have to observe the break in limitations.

Still no mods. I'm waiting and waiting and waiting for someone to get into BRM to get an exhaust built so that BRM can start making them and I can get one. Hopefully that will happen soon.

As of today there is now a turbo kit on the market. $5k gets you all the parts to get up to 350whp. Of course it's only been installed on one car and only tuned up to about 4 psi due to fuel complications. They think they can get past that hiccup and then who knows what they can do. Still even at only 4 psi they made 213 whp.. up over 50 from stock.. and they completely removed the power dip between 3k and 4.5k revs.

There is talk of a S/C kit on the horizon as well. I can't wait to see how these options develop. When I see evidence that the motor will safely make 250+ whp I'll probably jump in. Can't wait!!

[bigbadberry3]

Still have only 800 miles on it. Maybe I'll get it over 1000 next weekend and then I won't have to observe the break in limitations.

Still no mods. I'm waiting and waiting and waiting for someone to get into BRM to get an exhaust built so that BRM can start making them and I can get one. Hopefully that will happen soon.

As of today there is now a turbo kit on the market. $5k gets you all the parts to get up to 350whp. Of course it's only been installed on one car and only tuned up to about 4 psi due to fuel complications. They think they can get past that hiccup and then who knows what they can do. Still even at only 4 psi they made 213 whp.. up over 50 from stock.. and they completely removed the power dip between 3k and 4.5k revs.

There is talk of a S/C kit on the horizon as well. I can't wait to see how these options develop. When I see evidence that the motor will safely make 250+ whp I'll probably jump in. Can't wait!!

Which do you think the car would benefit more from, s/c or turbo? I am already going to assume that DD's will choose an s/c for practicality but I feel as if BRZ owners may be track orientated at the same time.

[Eikon]

great question!

This car needs more power to be great.. It can get more power from either S/C or turbo. But getting more power comes at a cost.. not only money, but also responsiveness. One of the highest acclaims of the BRZ is it's incredibly quick throttle response.

S/C typically don't make as much power, but the do provide better throttle response.
Turbo's make more power, but they need to spool up to do so, which makes for more lag in throttle response.

Ultimately I'm thinking S/C will be the better option for this car. I don't think I'll ever need huge hp. I think a nice S/C setup could make 250whp and do so with less parts, less cost, and less lag.

[flohtingPoint]

I am already going to assume that DD's will choose an s/c for practicality but I feel as if BRZ owners may be track orientated at the same time.

DD's will make up about 98-99% of the ownership of the cars, the folks that actually compete are a vast minority. What DD folks do is what DD folks will always do (throw whatever they want on a car because they're not constraint by regulations, whatever they get out of it is whatever they get out of it because they just want something to generate dyno numbers to brag about at meets or whatever). The folks that actually compete with the car will build it off rule specifications, which the majority of such will be in classes which do not allow addition of forced induction. So some simple math here:

99% of owners will just putt-putt around town with the car
1% will actually compete
5% of that 1% will compete in classes that allow forced induction to be added
0% of my calculations were used to factor in drifters because you can take any piece of crap and drift it, none of their cars are engineered properly because you dont need that to win something based off "big ups" or "high fives".

Now , with this math in mind. 5% of 1% of owners will equal out to .05% of owners will actually engineer their car for forced induction and seriously do development work on it to maximize output. So basically, you'll find out when they do the legwork for you, which wont be for a few years probably.

[themadscientist]

That's s***. Pro drifters are concerned with the setups of their cars as much as you are. You put a great driver in a cobbled-together car he can get it to perform better that an average driver, but it will limit what he can get away with. You can't BS physics. If the car can't do it, it won't do it. Those "big ups" and "high fives" require you to do impressive things and spinning out because your "piece of crap" can stay planted gets you no ups or fives.

[flohtingPoint]

That's bullsh*t. Pro drifters are concerned with the setups of their cars as much as you are. You put a great driver in a cobbled-together car he can get it to perform better that an average driver, but it will limit what he can get away with. You can't BS physics. If the car can't do it, it won't do it. Those "big ups" and "high fives" require you to do impressive things and spinning out because your "piece of crap" can stay planted gets you no ups or fives.

Yea, I'm sure they are. I always see pro drifters rocking double adjustable Moton's or Penske's or AST's. Their cars are setup like garbage because it doesn't take much to get a car to slide around, thats what the vehicle is NOT supposed to do, so it's fairly easy to dial that in, it's called lots of rear toe out and drive like an idiot. Either way, lets presume you know remotely what you're talking about. "Pro drifters" (and I use that term very loosely, getting paid to do the vehicular equivalent of figure skating is pretty shameful) will make up about .05% of the BRZ/FRS population also, so even if they knew what they were doing (which, as previously covered, they do not because of the nature and ignorance bred in drifting), it wouldn't apply to 99%+ of the population of BRZ/FRS owners.

[themadscientist]

Do you have to stretch before trying to pat yourself on the back like that?

Yeah, those pro drifters are some talentless fools with s*** cars.
http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/04/car ... d1-hks-86/




Thank god they haven't challenged the track technician on the go kart.

[flohtingPoint]

Do you have to stretch before trying to pat yourself on the back like that?

Yeah, those pro drifters are some talentless fools with s*** cars.
http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/04/car ... d1-hks-86/




Thank god they haven't challenged the track technician on the go kart.

Yes, its a s*** car Too much camber, too much rear toe, crap geometry, bad tires on terrible wheels. Want a cookie? How about you pull up more images of drift cars, that will totally prove a point.

Either way, that is neither a factory BRZ or FRS, so none of this has anything to do with anything.

[themadscientist]

Does it make you jealous the way these guys can make a car that you lambaste as inferior dance? It's ok. We are here for you.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPFAYsiG ... re=related[/youtube]

These cars are set up that way to deal with the severe countersteering encountered when hanging the tail out there suspension guru. I'm surprised I need to explain that to you. Well, not really because I know you judge everything by what you would do not what is called for in the situation. You would probably say my Skyline had too much positive camber, but then again you wouldn't take the time to think about why I did that because the echo in your head would distract you. The day a drifter rolls onto a track with the intention or racing and not sliding without changing his setup I will be the first to call attention to the bad setup.

[flohtingPoint]

Does it make you jealous the way these guys can make a car that you lambaste as inferior dance? It's ok. We are here for you.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPFAYsiG ... re=related[/youtube]

These cars are set up that way to deal with the severe countersteering encountered when hanging the tail out there suspension guru. I'm surprised I need to explain that to you. Well, not really because I know you judge everything by what you would do not what is called for in the situation. You would probably say my Skyline had too much positive camber, but then again you wouldn't take the time to think about why I did that because the echo in your head would distract you. The day a drifter rolls onto a track with the intention or racing and not sliding without changing his setup I will be the first to call attention to the bad setup.

So we're going further off topic here and instead of posting crappy pictures, we're posting the garbage that BMI or BMI-like companies put out. Yea man, that totally proves a point, well done! Since we're going SUPER off-topic here, next link to a Fox News broadcast about abortion since we're posting biased trash that slants everything as far from reality as possible.

Look son, I'm telling the kid with the question that, in a nutshell, he shouldn't be concerned with what the folks out on the track are doing, just do whatever he wants because it doesn't matter. Slap on turbo, slap SC on , whatever he wants is whatever he wants, because in the end it's all about what makes someone happy since nobody is scrimping for tenths of seconds when you're going to Target. You're the one who is getting all defensive about drifters and crap, posting silly pictures and poorly produced propaganda videos to try to prove a point that's moot in a thread that isn't even about this s***.

[themadscientist]

Son? I'm 40 goddamned years old. You can shove that son stuff up the deepest part of your tight a** "kid". I'm not one of your autocross groupies.

I love how everything that calls into question your opinion is somehow "staged." Do you even have a rear shock absorber?

That being said

whatever he wants is whatever he wants, because in the end it's all about what makes someone happy

Absolutely agree.

[Eikon]

I'm a pretty patient person, and pretty hard to ruffle.. but I have to tell you Jim.. you've gotten under my skin in this thread.

For some reason you've become a bit condescending recently. You seem to have taken on the persona of the world's greatest race car driver. It seems every response you make in (in this thread at least) is coming from you looking down your nose at everyone else.

You need to understand that autocross is not the highest form of motorsports.. Sure it takes a lot of skill to setup a car and a lot of skill to drive it, but so do other forms of auto racing. I see very little difference between the skill it takes to be great at autocross, road racing, off-road rally, Nascar, dirt track, drifting, etc.. They are all different and they all take require different car setups. But to be elite in any of form of racing requires incredible knowledge and skill in both the setup of the car and the skill of the driving. I don't think any genre of auto racing can successfully prove that they are significantly more skilled than any other. (Though I'll admit that I personally think F1/Indy racing is pretty much the top of the heap) Even though you think drifters are morons, I can assure you that there are tons of drifters out there that just as skilled at there game as you are.


I appreciate that are willing to share your advice on setups, autocross racing, and general automotive issues. I would never say that you are not an expert in your area. But, I would appreciate if you would try to find a little more humility in the way you come across on the forum. Not everyone here is a "kid" or "son". We're not all newbies. We don't all hold autocross up as the highest form of motorsport.

So let's all try to get along...

[hannibal]

Jeez, I was hoping to see more pics of the BR-Z...

You mentioned a two bucket car wash. You rinse the sponge in one bucket before dipping it in the soapy bucket and touching the car again??

[Eikon]

Good call hannibal.. back to the real topic of this thread.

I'll see if I can find a few more pictures. I know I have one of the Iron-X turning all the iron particles purple.. it's pretty cool!

You're dead on about the two bucket method for washing. The idea is to rinse off the sponge/mitt/cloth in a second bucket of water to get the dirt/grit off of it before dipping it back into the soapy bucket. This should minimize the grit and dirt before you put it back on the car. This way you reduce the swirl marks in the paint.

To really maximize the effort you can get a plastic ring called a "grit guard" that goes into the bottom of the rinse bucket. It's got screens that allow the dirt/particulates to fall to the bottom under the ring, but then stay at the bottom when you plunge into the bucket again.

Equally important.. do a good wax every 3-6 months. Keeping a layer of wax on top of the paint helps prevent scratches, swirls marks, hard water, bird poop damage, acid rain, etc..

[Rev_D21]

How many hot chicks can you fit in a go-cart? How many hot chicks can you fit in a go-cart even after winning a national championship?

[alms24sebring]

I just gotta say that Im mad that FP is hating on the drifting. Sure noob fanbois are annoying and suck, but its racing. If anything you sound like a beginner ricer that thinks he can clam 10 degrees in the rear with cheap tires with an ebay turbo, and be able to control it through a slide. Im sure there's a science behind the scenes.

Anyways, its lookin good. I still have only seen stupid Scions (I think), no BRZs. Please post her all her soapy and slick for me. Dont be afraid to put on those daisy dukes either.