I need a front wheel size blessing. I have done my research. Need green light.

[Mykl]

Alright, I've browsed over the first ten pages of this forum and read every wheel and tire thread I could find. I've also done a lot of reading on Zilvia.net. That combined with the other research and I think I have a good feel for what does and doesn't fit, but after running numbers through a calculator I need to know if the .236" of loss will affect fitment with Cusco Zero coilovers.

The car is an S13. I used the SCC project car as my basis. For reference, it has a 225/45-17x7.5 with a 43mm offset and 5mm spacer.

I want Buddy Club P1 Racing wheels. I can get it in a 17x8 with a 32mm offset. I want to run 225/45's. I ran the numbers through this calculator...

http://gs.tolan-hoechst.com/tirecalc.htm

It says that I lose .236" of inside clearance. Should I be worried?

I have another example, this one has the same exact sized wheels and tires that I want, with coilovers. He doesn't seem to say anything about fitment issues on his page.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/343334

Unfortunately I'm in a difficult position to test fit different wheels. Once I order the Buddy Clubs, I'm stuck with them. Thank you for your input.

[InsanityInc]

why in god's name do you need an 8" wide front tire on an s13? Seriously.

[nismofly]

if youre getting the same ones i have get the 17x8 +22, and youll be fine

i have 16x7.5 +22 and run a 225/50/16, basically the same just an inch smaller

heres a pic for an idea what theyll look like if youre wondering:

[Mykl]

Ok, that calculator is confusing me and is causing me to have a dyslexic fit.

I ran the numbers through a different calculator and apparently when the first calculator I used lists a negative number in the "Wheel Inboard increase (inches):" field it actually means I'm gaining strut clearance???

Because I went to use this calculator...

http://www.1010tires.com/WheelOffsetCalculator.asp

...and it tells me that my planned setup versus the SCC setup I have the same amount of inner clearance and that the outside of the wheel is 12mm's out at the fender. I'll roll 'em if I have to.

Since a 225 will fit on a 7" wide wheel would I be safer to go with the 17x7 +35 version of the same wheel I want? The second calculator tells me I pick up 9mm's of strut clearance and 3mm of outboard clearance over the SCC setup.

[Mykl]

why in god's name do you need an 8" wide front tire on an s13? Seriously.

Because that's the size the wheel is offered in. It's also offered in a 17x7 +35 as I just said in my last post. Would you recommend that? I'm not stuck on the 8" wide thing. I want the wheel that will let me run a 225/45 with coilovers.

[Mykl]

if youre getting the same ones i have get the 17x8 +22, and youll be fine

i have 16x7.5 +22 and run a 225/50/16, basically the same just an inch smaller

heres a pic for an idea what theyll look like if youre wondering:

I think your car looks nice, but I don't want my wheels to stick out so far. Don't those rub the fenders?

[nismofly]

nah, just get the x8 +22

the spacer = negative offset, so their setup would be a 7.5 +38

enter 7.5 +38 on the top, then 8 +22 on bottom

youll see the inner clearance is more, and it sticks out more...you still wont need to do anything to the fender though

mine had 4x4 suspension in that pic, but sitting lower as it does now they fit fine, no fender mods at all

[Mykl]

Man, I'm really surprised that your tires don't rub your fenders. +22 seems to be a really aggressive offset for an 8" wheel for this car.

Also, here's the thing... my car already has the P1's on the back, here's a picture....



With that offset in the rear, an 8" front wheel with a +22 offset would look incredibly goofy. The car isn't in my possession and I can't take measurements to see what size the rear wheels are.

I only need front wheels because the front wheels on the car are Volks, that I don't like. So I'm buying front wheels to match the rear wheels, that I like.

[onosqv]

Man, I'm really surprised that your tires don't rub your fenders. +22 seems to be a really aggressive offset for an 8" wheel for this car.

Not really, I was running x9 +20 - will be running x8+7 (equivalent).

[naed240sx]

why in god's name do you need an 8" wide front tire on an s13? Seriously.

Why in god's name do you have to hate on everything that does not agree with your "ultimate 240sx guidelines"? 225 tires are 2 centimeters wider than the stock s13 tires. Big deal. This extra width is good. Maybe you should actually help instead of criticizing

[Mykl]

I'm setting this car up as a track/autocross toy. I need as much rubber up front as I can get.

Could somebody tell me what they think of my wheel/tire size selections? Basically I've got two choices....

17x7, +35, 225/45

-or-

17x8, +32, 225/45

What I like about the 17x7 choice is that I can easily use a 5mm spacer and it's still going to be fairly close on the outside, but I'll have about 15mm's more space between the wheel and the shock.

Calculations were done with this calculator...

http://www.1010tires.com/WheelOffsetCalculator.asp

Also, according to that calculator, compared to the SCC car the 7" wheel is out 2mm's further out and I have 14mm's more clearance between the strut and the wheel.

[naed240sx]

I'm setting this car up as a track/autocross toy. I need as much rubber up front as I can get.

Could somebody tell me what they think of my wheel/tire size selections? Basically I've got two choices....

17x7, +35, 225/45

-or-

17x8, +32, 225/45

What I like about the 17x7 choice is that I can easily use a 5mm spacer and it's still going to be fairly close on the outside, but I'll have about 15mm's more space between the wheel and the shock.

Calculations were done with this calculator...

http://www.1010tires.com/WheelOffsetCalculator.asp

Also, according to that calculator, compared to the SCC car the 7" wheel is out 2mm's further out and I have 14mm's more clearance between the strut and the wheel.

Thats not really true. A 17x7+35 with a 225 and a 17x8+35 with a 225 are going to be equally close to the strut. By this I mean that the 225 tires will be in the same position.You may have rubbing problems. If I mount my wheels up front (16x8+35 with 225/50 es100s), the tire contacts the strut pretty bad. I am running coilovers though.
Modified by naed240sx at 6:51 PM 2/7/2006

[naed240sx]

BTW, you could easily run a 245 in the rear for more grip, and run a stiffer sway back there to compensate for the understeer created.

[Mykl]

Thats not really true. A 17x7+35 with a 225 and a 17x8+35 with a 225 are going to be equally close to the strut. By this I mean that the 225 tires will be in the same position.You may have rubbing problems. If I mount my wheels up front (16x8+32 with 225/50 es100s), the tire contacts the strut pretty bad. I am running coilovers though.

Well yeah, but what about a 17x7+30 (that includes the spacer) versus a 17x8+32? I see that you're saying that you're 8" +32 wheel doesn't fit up front, but if yours doesn't then I don't understand why others have been able to make an 8" wide with +32 fit (with coilovers)? (I'm not calling you a liar, just expressing my confusion)

But I think I see what you're saying. With those offsets the center of both wheels is going to be very, very close to identical in position and the problem will be the fact that the tire size hasn't changed. Thanks for pointing that out, I suppose I hadn't thought about it.

The car has Cusco Zeros on it, so whatever I get needs to fit with coilovers. How much do different coilovers vary in size and wheel/tire intrusiveness?

BTW, you could easily run a 245 in the rear for more grip, and run a stiffer sway back there to compensate for the understeer created.

I could do that, but I'm trying to avoid having to deal with the wacky suspension tuning I'd have to go through by running more rubber in the back than in the front. If I was pushing 300+ hp or something, I might actually need big rubber in the back. But as the car sits it can't have more than 210 whp, 225's should be fine.

[naed240sx]

Sorry, that was supposed to be 16x8+35. The thing is, the wheel itself clears. The tire rubs the coilover, because of the big rim protector bar that sticks out past the wheel. Most coilovers have the same clearance, some, like zeals have worse clearance than others. My car used to understeer bad, but after the installation of a whiteline rear sway bar, it is nice and neutral. I am considering running 225s up front and 245s rear toyo t1-rs next time. Not that I need that much tire, but it would look badass and be really flush. Just know that 17x8+35 will clear, and that tire design, width will be the determining factor.

[Mykl]

Sorry, that was supposed to be 16x8+35. The thing is, the wheel itself clears. The tire rubs the coilover, because of the big rim protector bar that sticks out past the wheel. Most coilovers have the same clearance, some, like zeals have worse clearance than others. My car used to understeer bad, but after the installation of a whiteline rear sway bar, it is nice and neutral. I am considering running 225s up front and 245s rear toyo t1-rs next time. Not that I need that much tire, but it would look badass and be really flush. Just know that 17x8+35 will clear, and that tire design, width will be the determining factor.

Thanks a ton for the input man, I really appreciate it.

After doing some math on a piece of paper... that I trust more than those online calculators... the 17x7+30mm (including spacer) pushes the inside of the wheel 14.75 mm's further away from the strut assembly when compared to SCC's Silvia. But because I'm running 8mm's less offset is actually 1.25mm's further away from the strut on the outside of the wheel.

So as long as my Cuscos aren't 15mm's more intrusive than the JIC's, I *should* be fine.

The inside lip of the 17x7+30mm wheel is actually 18.1mm's further away from the strut assembly than your 17x8+35's.

So even though I still have to contend with the physical size of the tires I want to use, going with the 7" wheel with a 30mm offset gives me the flush look I want and buys me a lot of space between the wheel and the suspension. The outside of the wheel will be very close to this...



I'm very happy with that. Although, I may use 5mm's spacers on the rear to push them out a wee bit too.

...and the 17x8+32mm wheels I mentioned seem to be .35mm's closer to the suspension than the SCC car's setup. So it *should* work. However, the more math I do, the more I think the 7" size is the way to go.

[McRussellPants]

why in god's name do you need an 8" wide front tire on an s13? Seriously.

Does anyone else see the irony in that his name is InsanityInc and he thinks 8in wide front wheels are outta control?

You really should be keeping the 15x6.5 if you want obscene amounts of grip. Nissan wouldn't have put it on if it wasn't for MAXIMUM PREFORMANCE!!!!!!!!

[McRussellPants]

going with the 7" wheel with a 30mm offset gives me the flush look I want and buys me a lot of space between the wheel and the suspension.

Are you high?

17x7 +30 is the "wow, you just bought a honda wheel, so I'll treat you like the kid in special ed"

17x8 +20 is the "Nico is lost in the stone age so I'll give a fitment my grandmother would like"

17x9 +15 is where it starts to get interesting.

17x10 or 18x9 is where you get props for caring that much.

For the love of god get the 8s. I swear if I see one more person jerking themselfs off about how their 17x7 wide wheel is perfect I'm gonna fly a plane into something.

[Mykl]

Are you high?

17x7 +30 is the "wow, you just bought a honda wheel, so I'll treat you like the kid in special ed"

17x8 +20 is the "Nico is lost in the stone age so I'll give a fitment my grandmother would like"

17x9 +15 is where it starts to get interesting.

17x10 or 18x9 is where you get props for caring that much.

For the love of god get the 8s. I swear if I see one more person jerking themselfs off about how their 17x7 wide wheel is perfect I'm gonna fly a plane into something.

What's the difference between a 7" wheel and an 8" or 9" wheel if I'm going to run the same size tire no matter which one I get?

I'm not looking for "street cred." I'm looking for something that looks "normal." Besides, in the performance world I live in nobody really gives a **** about big-*** wheels. This car is going to spend a lot of time at the track and at autocrosses, where I won't get any "mad props" for running a 9" wide wheel that sticks 2 inches out of the side of the car. Honestly, I'd run 16's if I didn't already have two 17" wheels on the car that I want to keep in the spirit of saving money.

Thank you for your input, I appreciate it, but I've posted pictures of the wheel stance I want. Telling me that I'm just a "special ed Honda kid" doesn't make me want to change my mind. If you really want to convince me, point me to where I can find quality pictures of the combo you suggest. I'm building a FAST car, not a SHOW car.

*edit* you do realize that we're talking about wheel sizing for the FRONT right? PDM Racing had to do some serious fender modifications to get a 9" wide wheel to actually fit up front.
Modified by Mykl at 4:30 AM 2/8/2006

[Mykl]

Does anyone else see the irony in that his name is InsanityInc and he thinks 8in wide front wheels are outta control?

You really should be keeping the 15x6.5 if you want obscene amounts of grip. Nissan wouldn't have put it on if it wasn't for MAXIMUM PREFORMANCE!!!!!!!!

If the 15x6.5 wheels were still on the car and I could safely run a 225 series tire on it with coilovers and at least 300ZX brakes I might consider keeping those wheels. I'd put r-compound tires on them and buy something nicer looking for a street shoe.

I don't understand the obsession with wheel size, particularly wheel width. Why does wheel width matter? It you're wider than you need to be all it means is more weight.

[Mykl]

I just found this in somebody's sig....



17x7.5+30

That setup is 6.35mm's (~1/4") further outboard than the 7" wheel I'm considering but it has ~7mm's less space between the suspension and wheel. His sig lists KTS coilovers. Not sure what size tire he's running though.

I wish I could get the P1 in a 7.5" width and I wish the 8" wide wheel wasn't threatening to rub my coilovers.

[McRussellPants]

- The cars your looking at have stock camber. If your so preformance minded you'll be running at least 2.5 degrees on the front axle. 2.5 camber will make any wheel less than an 8 lost in the fender.

- Since this is your awesome race car, you should be doing everything to fit big wheels anyway. hammering the seams in the wheel well, if you need full lock hammering the front tubs, rolling the fenders so it doesnt slice up your spankin new Kuhmo ASXs.

- You can run a 245/45 on the front axle of a 240SX with very little problems. You can run pretty much whatever you want in the rear with very little problems.

-Your putting waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy... to much thought into your front fitment and coming out with offsets that are gonna be close as hell to the strut.

-Look for stuff in the +20s and +10s (if your intent on 7s). I promise that anything less than a 8.5 on the front with a 20 offset will be perfect for what your looking for with the amount of camber you should be runnign.

-Even the most anti drifter / ricer fag I know is gonna run 17x8.5 +30s on his car.

-Wider wheels / wider tires = more traction. people can argue this all they want. but just because F stock CRXs run 15x6.5s doesnt mean that a car with any sort of guts should do the same. Obviously theres a limit in what is just gonna make the car accelerate like trash but thats ususally like a 265+ on any BPU SR or KA-T. If you track your car there is no excuse not to be running the widest thing your motor can push.

If you want any help getting pointed in the right direction for 4H wheels in the right size I can help.

[nismofly]

in order to clear tires from what ive seen the ita guys ill be running with, running the mandatory 15x7, have been anywhere in offset from ~+15 to 25

these are due to the fact that they need to clear a koni / ground control setup with a 225/50/15 hoosier slick, but even still they also say the wider track cant hurt

they do say they have to roll fenders, but again thats due to the tire

[Mykl]

McRussell, I found some pictures of cars with the offsets you suggested, and I have to admit that it looks pretty damn good.

So you (and NismoFly) suggest that I get this wheel in the 17x8+22, which is a size of the P1 that is available. Of course I'm going to run some negative camber, I'd just rather not be forced to run over 2 degrees. I have no problems doing it if it shows symptoms of needing that after a track session, but I want to be able to go lower if 2+ degrees is too much. Do most people find that 2.5 degrees of negative camber is usually agreeable with the car?

I would go all out and do a five lug conversion and whatever I had to to install 245->255's all around, but right now I just need two front wheels that match the rear ones.

Thanks a lot for your input, I apologize for having you all wrong to begin with. I thought you were just another guy who was more concerned with slamming his car and stuffing the biggest wheels possible on the car just for looks.

So do you think that 17x8+22 is a step in the right direction? I suppose if it makes the rear wheels look goofy I can just buy a pair of spacers or something.

[Mykl]

in order to clear tires from what ive seen the ita guys ill be running with, running the mandatory 15x7, have been anywhere in offset from ~+15 to 25

these are due to the fact that they need to clear a koni / ground control setup with a 225/50/15 hoosier slick, but even still they also say the wider track cant hurt

they do say they have to roll fenders, but again thats due to the tire

I'll roll the fenders, doesn't bother me. Ultimately though, when I get the car repainted I'm going to have the fenders cut and have flares installed so I can fit some real tires under the car. But this isn't happening until after I upgrade the turbo.

Thanks for talking sense into me.

[nismofly]

it would really help if we could get the rear size, it could be matched much easier that way

you can get away with camber around -2 on the street, when you go to the track crank it back a little bit more like 2.75 or so, but you wont ever need that much on the street...might as well ease up on the tires

if you get flares, youll need probably a 17x10 to fill them, and a lot of custom work will be involved...you really wont need that much unless youre running hoosiers or something and finding that you like the feel with the wider tires, which very few people i know running wheels that wide do...if not then itd just be for looks

im *probably* going to be running 15x7 +15 on my racecar, with 225 hoosier's, in case youre still considering 7's...im only because thats the spec wheel size, otherwise id probably have like a 16x8

[Mykl]

it would really help if we could get the rear size, it could be matched much easier that way

you can get away with camber around -2 on the street, when you go to the track crank it back a little bit more like 2.75 or so, but you wont ever need that much on the street...might as well ease up on the tires

if you get flares, youll need probably a 17x10 to fill them, and a lot of custom work will be involved...you really wont need that much unless youre running hoosiers or something and finding that you like the feel with the wider tires, which very few people i know running wheels that wide do...if not then itd just be for looks

im *probably* going to be running 15x7 +15 on my racecar, with 225 hoosier's, in case youre still considering 7's...im only because thats the spec wheel size, otherwise id probably have like a 16x8

Unfortunately I can't get the size of the rear wheel yet (blah). Right now the car is still in the mail. Also, I'm out of town on business so I won't see the car for another two weeks at minimum. Fortunately I'll have the option of buying a pair of the tires I want, put them on the the P1's I have, see how they fit, and buy the appropriate size for the front. (I'm a moron, I should have thought about that in the first place)

[nismofly]

let us know when you find out the rear wheel size

you tell us if you want it fat, square, or stretched, or in between 2, and with the wheel size we can tell you what youll be able to run, and what the front wheel/tire combo can be

[InsanityInc]

An 8 inch wide wheel is excessively large. After a certain point of tire widening, the traction gains are very minimal and can actually end up hurting by adding more weight than gained performance,. Ever wonder why road race cars don't all have 12" wide wheels with crazy wide tires on them? There's a reason. You might need an 8" wide wheel for something heavier, or on the drive wheels if you have a LOT of power, but for a 2700 pound car on the front? No point.

A 225mm tire will fit fine on a 7" wide wheel. 1" is roughly equal to 25mm (24.7 exactly I think). 205mm fits fine on a 6", so obviously a 1" wider tire will be fine on a 1" wider wheel.

All you'd be doing by going to a 8" wheel with the same tire is adding weight for no reason, and spending more on the wheels. Heck, it might even end up stretched on the 8" which is AWFUL for performance, safety and tire life.

[naed240sx]

An 8 inch wheel is excessively large. After a certain point of tire widening, the traction gains are very minimal and can actually end up hurting by adding more weight than gained performance,. Ever wonder why road race cars don't all have 12" wide wheels with crazy wide tires on them? There's a reason.

A 225mm tire will fit fine on a 7" wide wheel. 1" is roughly equal to 25mm (24.7 exactly I think). 205mm fits fine on a 6", so obviously a 1" wider tire will be fine on a 1" wider wheel.

All you'd be doing by going to a 8" wheel with the same tire is adding weight for no reason, and spending more on the wheels. Heck, it might even end up stretched on the 8" which is AWFUL for performance, safety and tire life.

Dude, just go away . 225 on an 8 is not anwhere near stretched. You don't know what you are talking about and just want to sound smart. Maybe you should call up bmw or porshe or ferrari or whoever and inform them of this breakthough that you have made. I am sure they would love to know that it is no longer a good thing for them to be running tires over 225 mm wide.