I need a front wheel size blessing. I have done my research. Need green light.

[nismofly]

the TC class are rsx's, tsx's, madza 6's, bmw 3 series, dodge SRT-4, subie wrx, ford focus, b15 sentra, that sort of thing

depending on the car, minimum weight is between 2400 and 2800 lbs.

once again both classes are required to run toyo ra-1

[InsanityInc]

Well, for the front-drivers (and AWD) they obviously want big front tires, since that goes back to the greater power production and wheelspin problem. That means we're left with the... 3 series. I'd have to guess their minimum weights are more towards the 2800 (since SPEED loves to penalize the **** out of RWD cars) meaning that 235 is a fairly reasonable tire size.

[nismofly]

exactly, 2750

which also happens to be the factory weight of the s13, give or take a few pounds

and those touring cars are only making 240-250 rwhp, right around what a stock sr will do on the stock turbo with a few bolt ons

so my question is, whats the difference between an s13 and a 323/325, weighing the same, same drivetrain layout, and your saying thats enough to need a 10, even 20mm wider tire on the bimmer?

[InsanityInc]

I didn't say it was enough to NEED a 235 tire, it just wasn't needlessly large (like a 295 or whatever retardation they were running on that PDM car).

[nismofly]

I didn't say it was enough to NEED a 235 tire, it just wasn't needlessly large (like a 295 or whatever retardation they were running on that PDM car).

i know you didnt say need, but what you did say is this:

I'm pointing out that this argument is irrelevant because you will never need a wider front tire in the future. Ever.

so youre saying that a 3 series doesnt need a 235 tire, but its fairly reasonable, whereas the 240 will "never ever" need a wider tire than a 225...even though the setup are (well, can be) similar?

[Mykl]

I didn't say it was enough to NEED a 235 tire, it just wasn't needlessly large (like a 295 or whatever retardation they were running on that PDM car).

What are your credentials? How much racing experience do you have? How much experience do you have with actually setting up a race car? I want to know why anybody should listen to you.

[Mykl]

i know you didnt say need, but what you did say is this:

so youre saying that a 3 series doesnt need a 235 tire, but its fairly reasonable, whereas the 240 will "never ever" need a wider tire than a 225...even though the setup are (well, can be) similar?

Also consider that many SR/KA-T 240SX owners will go well beyond the 240whp range.... like I intend to.

[InsanityInc]

What are your credentials? How much racing experience do you have? How much experience do you have with actually setting up a race car? I want to know why anybody should listen to you.

A fair amount, for what it's worth. Of course anyone can say that online, so it's not worth too much.

I prefer to let my arguments stand on scientific and logical backing, as opposed to trying to tell everyone I'm some master race car builder. Attempting to argue from the standpoint of your education/experience in and of itself is a logical fallacy known as an argument from authority. So instead I just point out things that make basic sense and are backed by science.

Quote »so youre saying that a 3 series doesnt need a 235 tire, but its fairly reasonable, whereas the 240 will "never ever" need a wider tire than a 225...even though the setup are (well, can be) similar?[/quote]Yeah. Like I said, 235 isn't really outlandish, but it's probably a bit bigger than is ideal. Though in all honesty between a 225 and 235 you probably won't notice all that much difference anyway, due to as I said the minimal contact patch gain as your contact patch extends over a square.

Hell, just look at PDM's problem. They had a whole lot of understeer so they kept widening the front tires, and never actually got rid of the understeer. That should tell you something.

[Mykl]

A fair amount, for what it's worth. Of course anyone can say that online, so it's not worth too much.

I prefer to let my arguments stand on scientific and logical backing, as opposed to trying to tell everyone I'm some master race car builder. Attempting to argue from the standpoint of your education/experience in and of itself is a logical fallacy known as an argument from authority. So instead I just point out things that make basic sense and are backed by science.

Arguements from the standpoint of your education/experience is only annoying when you attempt to lord it over the person you're talking to. But the fact is, somebody with more education/experience is far more capable of creating scientific, logically backed arguements. I want to know what your experience is, "a fair amount" doesn't tell me anything.

How many autocrosses have you done? How many HPDE's have you attended? How fast is your personal car compared to those you are in competition against?

[InsanityInc]

Arguements from the standpoint of your education/experience is only annoying when you attempt to lord it over the person you're talking to. But the fact is, somebody with more education/experience is far more capable of creating scientific, logically backed arguements. I want to know what your experience is, "a fair amount" doesn't tell me anything.

Yes, it should. So, feel free to point out any scientific or logical inconsistencies in anything I've said. Would you agree that more weight makes for worse handling? Would you also agree that larger wheels and tire make for more weight? By those two obvious facts, it seems that the logical progression is that if widening your wheels and tires doesn't add enough grip to make up for the weight, then your car will handle worse. And even if it doesn't handle worse, the gains may well be marginal as you might only exceed the weight gain with gained traction by a small amount.

Quote »How many autocrosses have you done? How many HPDE's have you attended? How fast is your personal car compared to those you are in competition against?[/quote]800 million. Does it matter? Though, for the record, I will tell you I've done enough autocrossing to hate autocrossing and the SCCA. I much prefer road racing.

[Mykl]

Yes, it should. So, feel free to point out any scientific or logical inconsistencies in anything I've said. Would you agree that more weight makes for worse handling? Would you also agree that larger wheels and tire make for more weight? By those two obvious facts, it seems that the logical progression is that if widening your wheels and tires doesn't add enough grip to make up for the weight, then your car will handle worse. And even if it doesn't handle worse, the gains may well be marginal as you might only exceed the weight gain with gained traction by a small amount.

800 million. Does it matter? Though, for the record, I will tell you I've done enough autocrossing to hate autocrossing and the SCCA. I much prefer road racing.

But it doesn't. People who hide their level of experience are just as bad as those who brag about their accomplishments. People who talk **** about people who are on a borderline professional level and well established in their chosen industry are even worse.

I'm not going to attempt to maintain any sort of discussion with you concerning the original subject. You're far too rude for that. You've basically called me (and everybody else) stupid for going for an 8" wide wheel, so attempting to explain anything to you would be futile. Any efforts to point out the inconsistencies and flaws in your logic would be a waste of time, because you're convinced that you're so smart you're incapable of altering your opinion on the subject.