I'm in a engine dilemma, need help....

[SHIEF]

I don't want to turn this thread into a CA vs. * thread. I'm just looking for some input from you CA guys on what I should do. I'm trying to decide between doing a RB20 swap or a CA18DET swap into my S13. Now I've been searching like a mad man (so don't say "SEARCH") between the 2 engines and I'm still not sure on what to do. I just sold my CAET S12 (ET head on a DET block ) about a month ago, and eventhough it wasn't the same engine I kind of grew attached to it. I do plan on making some decent hp with whichever I choose down the road, meaning 400+. I am legit and I do mean that hp #. Biggest thing is, is there a big enough aftermarket to be able to put up those kind of hp numbers? Including engine internals? So basically I'm asking for reasons or directed opinions why I should go the CA route to do what I want to do, and why not to go with the RB20. Any input is appriciated. Thanks.

[CA19DET]

the extra .2 L isnt really worth the hassle and extra weight/money/time, yes it would be smooth and nice and can get up to 400hp easily, but parts in the US are kinda tough to come by, if it was a RB25 and you are rich, then thats a different story..

i think CA parts are easier to get, that should help your decision..

[Dattebayo]

the RB20DET would be harder to find stuff for than the CA18DET because the CA series was offered here in the states (the SOHC turbo and DOHC are very similar as well) and the RB was not at all. I dont have mine in the car yet, but its coming together really cheap for me. If you want, check out this site and search for all kinds of stuff on the ca18det.

http://www.sxoc.comits britain's best 200sx (s13 w/ ca) site with some guys pushing over 600HP with race gas.

[sdtouge]

i would think getting 400hp out of a ca would be more fun, not just because i like the ca, but a rb in a 240 engine bay there is no room. you would get alot of cuts. i think you might have to pull the engine to put a nbew water pump in. i dont like that

[SHIEF]

These are very good points. I was leaning toward the CA, but this has made my decision a little easier.

[Dattebayo]

i think you might have to pull the engine to put a nbew water pump in.

Nah, you would just have to pull the radiator and move a/c coils.

Also, cuts will happen no matter what engine you work on if you arent careful.

[ca18detizzle]

i was leaning towards CA.. i got a RB. Yes there are plenty more parts for the CA... it's ok I just use my s13 rb for daily driving.

[slownslurious]

To be honest neither would be my starting place for a reliable 400 whp unless I had a lot of patience and really deep pockets. Rb25DET is a better place to start for 400 hp right off the bat because of its larger displacement. SR20det because I could order all the parts I'd need for 400whp and have them shipped UPS ground and get them in less than a week, even if I decided to go with forged internals.Rb20 is larger displacement and has a couple extra cylinders, which is gona make it more expensive to upgrade from the get go (more injectors, more pistons, more con rods, more bearings, etc). Add to that the fact that aftermarket parts are basically non existent except for the slim pickings on ebay, and I think it would not be a good place to start. CA18det will be easier to find parts for, but is still down on displacement, and parts take longer, are harder to find, and are often more expensive than for other engines...Please don't flame me guys, I love the CA and I think its great, but one of the big things that made me decide on the CA was that I knew I could be happy with 250 hp, and I like the way it winds out. If I had wanted a dyno queen I would have defintely bought an SR20, just based on parts availability alone.

[SHIEF]

For the amount of money it cost to get that RB25 into the 400's, you could easily do with the CA and for probably quite a bit less money. There is alot of extra stuff that will nickel and dime you to death with that RB25 swap. You could easily get $8,000 (w/standalone) deep and just start to touch the 400's with the RB25, and that's w/o touching the internals. I guess I just don't want to do a SR swap because I'm tired of seeing/hearing about them around me. It's like a plague. I know they are good engines, I'm just sick of em Plus I like the idea of a cast block and not aluminum. I mean the forged stuff/standalone's are out there for the CA, and not that much/if any more than SR stuff $$ wise.

[float_6969]

To be honest neither would be my starting place for a reliable 400 whp unless I had a lot of patience and really deep pockets. Rb25DET is a better place to start for 400 hp right off the bat because of its larger displacement. SR20det because I could order all the parts I'd need for 400whp and have them shipped UPS ground and get them in less than a week, even if I decided to go with forged internals.Rb20 is larger displacement and has a couple extra cylinders, which is gona make it more expensive to upgrade from the get go (more injectors, more pistons, more con rods, more bearings, etc). Add to that the fact that aftermarket parts are basically non existent except for the slim pickings on ebay, and I think it would not be a good place to start. CA18det will be easier to find parts for, but is still down on displacement, and parts take longer, are harder to find, and are often more expensive than for other engines...Please don't flame me guys, I love the CA and I think its great, but one of the big things that made me decide on the CA was that I knew I could be happy with 250 hp, and I like the way it winds out. If I had wanted a dyno queen I would have defintely bought an SR20, just based on parts availability alone.

I have to agree here, if you're dead set on 400hp+, do you think either of these is the best motor to go with? If you're dead set on getting 400hp out of one of these motors, I'd go with the CA. It's easier to get parts for.

[SHIEF]

I am dead set on that 400hp+ mark. Ok, so the RB20 is out of the pic, and the RB25 because it and parts cost too much for me. Now why does this seem like such a huge deal to get to that mark on the CA? The KA guys are hitting the 400's with ease now, and I don't think it was a better designed engine from Nissan than the CA. Is there not enough internals available for the CA?

[slownslurious]

just a word of caution, look at how many people with ANY 4 bangers are breaking 400 hp... not very many. How many of those are street driven? fewer still. Pump gas? Reliable? Run more than a year between rebuilds? Keep going down the list and you'll end up with only a handful of people, and thats for a reason. 400 hp on a 1.8 liter is going to mean a laggy powerband and a very highly stressed powertrain prone to detonation and overheating no matter how you tune it. A hot day, a bad tank of gas, and youre looking at rebuilding the motor. Have you ever driven a 400 hp car? I just want to know if you know first hand what you are getting into. If this is your first big engine building project I'd caution you to start much smaller. 400hp sounds good on paper but in real life 300 is scary fast in a 240, is obtainable on a stock bottom end, and will have a more manageable powerband.If you really want 400 hp the road is paved, look on the first page of the forums, someone just dynoed 389 hp. But look at all the **** that went into that engine buildup, it was a lot of time and money.

[SHIEF]

I do understand what it takes to make 400hp. I drive a 8.47 (1/4 mi) off spray, dragster every other weekend so I know quite a bit on how you need to go about things to get good numbers/hp. Yes I've drivin a 400hp S14. Was it a little unstreetable with high boost? Yes, but you can always turn down the boost for non-race type of driving. I'm only looking for that 400+ on a street race or on the 1/4. Am I going to shoot for this number right away? No, but I don't want to buy a CA if it won't do what I want it to down the road, and I want to have internal parts still available. As for it being a 1.8 and making 400+, I don't see any credibility to that statement. Hell, there are ***-loads of 1.8 B series Honda engines pushing those numbers with pump gas all day long. We have a couple local guys on the 1.8 B series making 725hp (race gas) and another making 813hp (race gas). Both cars are street driven cars and the 800hp one now has 13,000 miles on the engine build, and your saying tuning has nothing to do with that? So the litre size has nothing to do with what limits an engine. As for the turbo lag, I could care less. A turbo needed to make those numbers will stay in the turbo power band between shifts in a race type situation.

[slownslurious]

there is defintely a relationship between the size of a motor and the amount of power you can reliably squeeze out of it, it has more to do with cylinder pressures than displacement.. thats why chevy can offer 5.7 liters with 400 hp and full powertrain warranties but the 2.0 WRX, EVO, etc, aren't pushing out quite that much power from the factory. If all you want is a race car, then it won't make a difference, because they get rebuilt between races or between seasons, and like you said, in a race situation you will probably be shifting above where even a large turbo spools up. The parts are out there, rare trick sells everything from full cam kits to CA20 stroker kits, and what they don't carry takakaira can get you. With forged internals and smart tuning you won't have a problem with 400hp on the CA.

[JaPPster]

i'm building ca, an i expect bout 350-380bhp, i'm starting from the bottom end to the top, that means: forged rods, pistons, heavy duty bearings, 272 cams, koyo radiator, gt2871r, 550cc inj., stage 2 clutch, i thing that figure is quite realistic, cuz the engine him self, will be running about 70-80% of its capability, i wanna make a tough engine, without need to rebuilt it, every couple of 1k miles

and of course remapping by one of the best tuners in central europe.that is one of most important things when tuning up...

sorry for ****ty english

[c-rad]

i'm building ca, an i expect bout 350-380bhp, i'm starting from the bottom end to the top, that means: forged rods, pistons, heavy duty bearings, 272 cams, koyo radiator, gt2871r, 550cc inj., stage 2 clutch, i thing that figure is quite realistic, cuz the engine him self, will be running about 70-80% of its capability, i wanna make a tough engine, without need to rebuilt it, every couple of 1k miles

and of course remapping by one of the best tuners in central europe.that is one of most important things when tuning up...

sorry for ****ty english

That's better English than some American's speak.

Nobody is doubting that 400whp can be achieved. We are just questioning your platform. It sounds to me like you want a HP/TQ Queen. If that's the case, why not just throw a set of forged pistons in a KA and a GT35R turbo with the proper fuel management and make 400+whp all day long?

As a side note, please don't kill my family and I while you are driving all fast and furious in your street race.

[Not_a_sr]

being in Cbus, and a few of us in dayton with Ca's there will always be some local help if you need it. mine should be pushing around 400hp by summers end your more then welcome to come down an check it out.

[JaPPster]

That's better English than some American's speak.

Nobody is doubting that 400whp can be achieved. We are just questioning your platform. It sounds to me like you want a HP/TQ Queen. If that's the case, why not just throw a set of forged pistons in a KA and a GT35R turbo with the proper fuel management and make 400+whp all day long?

As a side note, please don't kill my family and I while you are driving all fast and furious in your street race.

thx, trying, but it's hard because not many people speaks english in daily basis in europe.

about KA-s, in europe only Ca engines were in sale, so we dont have any of ka around..

i'm just trying to tune my engine to be as tough as stock one, i'm not trying to hit moster power or torque, i just wanna built a bit faster&stronger car for occasional drift&drag mettings.

dont worry about my rage on the streets:first of all, there are couple of thousands miles between our countries, so no worries mister, and second we are not street racing much, because our streets( small country in europe) are not as wide as us roads are.

i just like to know, that my car has enough power if i need it.esspecialy on highways

Modified by JaPPster at 1:39 PM 6/16/2005

Modified by JaPPster at 1:40 PM 6/16/2005
Modified by JaPPster at 1:41 PM 6/16/2005

[c-rad]

thx, trying, but it's hard because not many people speaks english in daily basis in europe.

about KA-s, in europe only Ca engines were in sale, so we dont have any of ka around..

i'm just trying to tune my engine to be as tough as stock one, i'm not trying to hit moster power or torque, i just wanna built a bit faster&stronger car for occasional drift&drag mettings.

dont worry about my rage on the streets:first of all, there are couple of thousands miles between our countries, so no worries mister, and second we are not street racing much, because our streets( small country in europe) are not as wide as us roads are.

i just like to know, that my car has enough power if i need it.esspecialy on highways

Modified by JaPPster at 1:39 PM 6/16/2005

Modified by JaPPster at 1:40 PM 6/16/2005

Modified by JaPPster at 1:41 PM 6/16/2005

No no....I was directing all but the English part to SHIEF...not you.

[JaPPster]

lol, i got owned

[SHIEF]

No no....I was directing all but the English part to SHIEF...not you.

c-rad: I actually was going Sohc KAT but I scrapped that. And it's not that easy on the 400hp KA part bro. Do some homework then talk about the Ka, you'll appear much smarter. I'm asking questions because I don't know it all sorry. Yeah AWESOME choice on the GT35 That's gotta be the best turbo for the KA and 400hp, because you said so I'll try to stay away from your family while I race, just stay away from mine while your mAD tYtE dRiFTiNg

Not_a_sr: I'll take you up on that offer, sounds good man, I'll email you.

slownslurious: Thanks, that's the info I've been wanting to know.

[c-rad]

c-rad: I actually was going Sohc KAT but I scrapped that. And it's not that easy on the 400hp KA part bro.

SOHC is crap... I was talking ka24de. Second, it's a lot easier to achieve 400whp on a KA24 than it is on the CA.

Do some homework then talk about the Ka, you'll appear much smarter.

What do you want to know? It has oil squirters like the CA, forged crank and rods like the CA... only weakness is the factory piston ringlands (hence why I said to replace them with the forgies)... No rocker arms in the head. Bucket style lifters with direct action cams like the CA.

I'm asking questions because I don't know it all sorry. Yeah AWESOME choice on the GT35 That's gotta be the best turbo for the KA and 400hp, because you said so

Umm.... ok, T3/T4 50-trim? Does that make you happy? I personally like ball-bearing turbos that's why I said the GT35R. The 35R can make 400whp barely breathing and its size matches very well for a 2.4L.

I'll try to stay away from your family while I race, just stay away from mine while your mAD tYtE dRiFTiNg

Drifting = lame... as is this thread.

Do some homework then talk about the Ka, you'll appear much smarter.

If you did YOUR homework, this thread would be non-existant and you would appear much smarter... wise-***.

[SHIEF]

Hey c-rad if you don't like the thread then stay out, it's that simple. I was looking for opinions and ideas. I have done my homework, just had a few questions. Like I said I'm not some poop-d!ck know it all like yourself, now go away.

[Dattebayo]

Do some homework then talk about the Ka, you'll appear much smarter.

Dude, who the hell are you to be questioning him about a Nissan motor? You have never built one before and are being rude! He building one right now for christ's sake!!! While he's not the absolute authority, he has hit the power of KA's right on the head. We could do the same to you if you want to keep being a smart as$.

I think you owe him an apology and need to retract your earlier statement.

[SHIEF]

Dude, who the hell are you to be questioning him about a Nissan motor? You have never built one before and are being rude! He building one right now for christ's sake!!! While he's not the absolute authority, he has hit the power of KA's right on the head. We could do the same to you if you want to keep being a smart as$.

I think you owe him an apology and need to retract your earlier statement.

Hmm..I don't think I'm the one who got all short and negative first with my post. So no apology will be happening. And his comment on how the Sohc KA is crap tells me enough about him. I have put together a Sohc KA engine 2BN, so don't open your mouth too soon like c-rad has done.

[c-rad]

I was looking for opinions and ideas.

And I gave you mine....

I have done my homework, just had a few questions. Like I said I'm not some poop-d!ck know it all like yourself, now go away.

Spend some more time in the CA forum, and watch how many times these "CA vs X motor" topics and "How much power/boost" topics show up and let's see how monotonous it gets for you.

Now why does this seem like such a huge deal to get to that mark on the CA?

Because most of us are poor and don't have the money to shell out for fancy parts. That and the fact that most of us didn't choose this motor for big HP numbers.

The KA guys are hitting the 400's with ease now, and I don't think it was a better designed engine from Nissan than the CA.

0.6L more of displacement will do that. As I stated earlier, the only real weak point in the KA is the ringlands on the factory pistons.

Is there not enough internals available for the CA?

Factory rods are beefy as hell. Crank is a brute. Cast pistons are the weakest point in the bottom end. Get yourself some CP pistons from Race-Engineering ( http://www.race-eng.com ), a metal headgasket, some ARP head studs, a set of cams, 600cc+ injectors, some good engine management such as an SDS standalone or similar, and a turbo capable of making the power and go for your 400hp.


Modified by c-rad at 7:52 PM 6/16/2005

[Dattebayo]

I have put together a Sohc KA engine 2BN, so don't open your mouth too soon like c-rad has done.

Oh, well then. A SOHC definately qualifies you to talk sh*t to people here on NICO. Thanks for all the wonderful words...

C-rad is taking this much better than I would, he should get a medal.

[SHIEF]

Oh, well then. A SOHC definately qualifies you to talk sh*t to people here on NICO. Thanks for all the wonderful words...

C-rad is taking this much better than I would, he should get a medal.

c-rad just did a 180. That's all I was after c-rad, there you gave some useful info. You could've saved this dispute by just posting that at the start. I've seen enough of the this engine vs. that engine, and I didn't want it to be like that. I'm definitly not rich, so it's not like this is going to happen overnight or anything. Just wanted to make sure this is a good platform, and apparently it is. I'm going for decent power with this engine because I'm sick of SR's, hence the build-up of my Sohc. I'm no baller, so no RB25,6 is even in my cards. Nice to see you turn in a good direction c-rad.

As for 2BN, yeah I guess I can talk a little smack when I build methanol injected mid-low 8 second V8/Powerglide trannies for my dragster and help my Dad build his 9 second engine as well. I'll take pics with whatever hand gesture you'd like and post them here tomorrow if your having a hard time believing me 2BN.

[nismo_chk]

not to change the subject or w/e.. but i saw that it said you were local, and one other guy that posted.. where in ohio are you from?? the other guy said cbus and dayton.. damn.. i thought i was the only one around with a CA in a 240...haha.maybe not.. but i KNOW im the only one in Cincinnati...

To you local guys.. please AIM me at nismochk I'd like to talk to you guys about the CA and ****.. thanks-Brittany

[Not_a_sr]

SHIEF, i might be comming up to cbus this saturday night im prolly goin with my friend and meeting up with ricky(bigbabyjesus) used to have the Sr20det maroon hatch. pretty sure you know him from the boards. from there i think we are hitting up a meet and then goin out to watch... maybe... participate in some highway action. we could meet up sometime saturday.

nismo_chk , how is tha car running?? you gotta killer deal on it didnt you? thats joes old coupe right? i was actually goin to buy that thing from under you but ran short on cash the week he sold it. i put in some work on that thing hopefully it treats you better then mine has so far.

Jon