I'm in a engine dilemma, need help....

[SHIEF]

Jon hit me up on AIM NoSR240I'm helping the gf move into her apartment on Sat. so it's a bad weekend

[nismo_chk]

nismo_chk , how is tha car running?? you gotta killer deal on it didnt you? thats joes old coupe right? i was actually goin to buy that thing from under you but ran short on cash the week he sold it. i put in some work on that thing hopefully it treats you better then mine has so far.

Jon

Ill quick hijacking this thread and PM you or email u..

[JaPPster]

sry, for off topic, i'm just wondering, how much torque and bhp can stock ca box handle?

thx

[81na ZX]

the extra .2 L isnt really worth the hassle and extra weight/money/time, yes it would be smooth and nice and can get up to 400hp easily, but parts in the US are kinda tough to come by, if it was a RB25 and you are rich, then thats a different story..

i think CA parts are easier to get, that should help your decision..

Just for a little clarification, Most RB maintance parts and na z32 parts are interchangeable. Not like CA to CA, but still there.

Tomei also makes a full line of RB20 specefic power parts too (and some nice CA parts too )

[float_6969]

c-rad just did a 180. That's all I was after c-rad, there you gave some useful info. You could've saved this dispute by just posting that at the start. I've seen enough of the this engine vs. that engine, and I didn't want it to be like that. I'm definitly not rich, so it's not like this is going to happen overnight or anything. Just wanted to make sure this is a good platform, and apparently it is. I'm going for decent power with this engine because I'm sick of SR's, hence the build-up of my Sohc. I'm no baller, so no RB25,6 is even in my cards. Nice to see you turn in a good direction c-rad.

As for 2BN, yeah I guess I can talk a little smack when I build methanol injected mid-low 8 second V8/Powerglide trannies for my dragster and help my Dad build his 9 second engine as well. I'll take pics with whatever hand gesture you'd like and post them here tomorrow if your having a hard time believing me 2BN.

Alright man, why don't you ease up. Unless this thread has changed since my reading of it, c-rad was never a smart *** with you. You may have mis-interpreted what was stated, but that doesn't give you the right to go around and start insulting the other members on this forum. You've mentioned, on two difference occasions, that you have built fast drag cars. You are apparently quite proud of that. Pride seems to be something you have an abundance of. Why don't you endeavor to acquire some humility? You came here and asked for help and opinions. They were giving to you, and you didn't like them. If you're mad about c-rad's comment about not killing his family with the street racing, I think you should re-direct your anger elsewhere. I personally completely concur with his statement. I have a 2 1/2 year old daughter that I would beat the crap out of a street racer for if he/she ever came close to hurting her. I already broke my hand on the back of some punk kids head who threw a rock at my car with her in the car with me, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. I've seen WAY too many busted up cars AND people because of this crap. That was a legitimate statement and not in any way smart *** or cynical.

Bottom line; stop the name calling, and stop talking about your 8 second drag car. It makes you look like you're compensating for something.

[SHIEF]

Alright man, why don't you ease up. Unless this thread has changed since my reading of it, c-rad was never a smart *** with you. You may have mis-interpreted what was stated, but that doesn't give you the right to go around and start insulting the other members on this forum. You've mentioned, on two difference occasions, that you have built fast drag cars. You are apparently quite proud of that. Pride seems to be something you have an abundance of. Why don't you endeavor to acquire some humility? You came here and asked for help and opinions. They were giving to you, and you didn't like them. If you're mad about c-rad's comment about not killing his family with the street racing, I think you should re-direct your anger elsewhere. I personally completely concur with his statement. I have a 2 1/2 year old daughter that I would beat the crap out of a street racer for if he/she ever came close to hurting her. I already broke my hand on the back of some punk kids head who threw a rock at my car with her in the car with me, and I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. I've seen WAY too many busted up cars AND people because of this crap. That was a legitimate statement and not in any way smart *** or cynical.

Bottom line; stop the name calling, and stop talking about your 8 second drag car. It makes you look like you're compensating for something.

What am I compensating for? Bottom line; when you build something fast you can talk about it, and when it's your own money you can talk about it. Anybody who builds any car that's a sub 10 second car has obviously done some serious work, in which I don't think you have any right to say anything negative because it's not easy to get there. Domesticly or Import. So where do you come off on that float_69? I said 2 things about my drag car to prove that I'm no noob when it comes to building engines, in which if you read the thread float_6969 I got called out for not building engines. Whether it was Nissan or not. So I believe I made a point there, and was right in saying something about my drag car. c-rads comment about "being all fast and furious" was not needed and a dumb comment. I hardly street race, if I do it's usually with friends. He gave no info regarding the thread. Basically said "go KA" and "don't hurt my family in FLORIDA when your being a ricer", so yeah I didn't like that opionion. Much like your post float_69, it's no help, and just another attack. I wasn't here to get your life stories either, and your post with you being a "Mod" and all gave no info towards this CA thread like it was originally intended. Seems like your trying to turn this thread back into an arguement, which I don't want argue and never intended to making this thread.

[slownslurious]

btw I just want to point out that if you can't afford an RB25DET motorset you do not have enough money to make 400 hp on any motor that I can think of... Since they run around 1600-2500 bucks, your ca motorset alone is gonna be at least half of that, and the remaining $1,000 will get you an intercooler, catback, boost controller, and clutch, all of which youre gonna need to make 200 whp, let alone 400. Now you said its not gonna happen overnight, but the cost of rebuilding with forged internals is going to be another $1000 easy... the path to 400whp will be littered with receipts for $1000'sSo if you are going to have to save up to reach your goal, why not start saving now and get an engine better suited to your final goal...

[NeedCAforS13]

thats a good point slow,

regardless of your engine choice, 400hp is going to be expensive. There's going to be very little bottom line difference in price later down the road. Spend more now or spend more later.

Sean

[SHIEF]

I already have quite a few things left over from my KA project. Like boost controller, wideband, catback, intercooler, etc. Can I buy a RB25 motorset? Yes. But, I'm more concerned about things down the road costs. I mean lets face it, your going to spend alot more money for parts and upgrades on the RB25 than the CA. Granted getting 400hp isn't cheap with any engine....

[c-rad]

I already have quite a few things left over from my KA project. Like boost controller, wideband, catback, intercooler, etc. Can I buy a RB25 motorset? Yes. But, I'm more concerned about things down the road costs. I mean lets face it, your going to spend alot more money for parts and upgrades on the RB25 than the CA. Granted getting 400hp isn't cheap with any engine....

Which brings me back to my point about the KA. You can get a used DOHC KA that is COMPLETE for $250 or less with the ECU and accessories. All the parts are available here in the US and are inexpensive. And regardless when you're making 400 holy grail power, things are going to break on a regular basis anyway so why not have them be things you can grab at autozone with no worries? To be different? If I was building a drag car that was going to be broken every weekend, I'd want to go about it the cheapest way possible.

[SHIEF]

I understand your point c-rad, which is why I was going KAT in the first place. But this isn't going to be a drag only car, I mean I do plan on driving the car on the streets on weekends and an occasional nice weekday as well. I was only saying the 400hp mark every now and then, so it would be more 300ish on a more regualr basis. Alot of regular parts for the CA are at AutoZone though.

[81na ZX]

thats a good point slow,

regardless of your engine choice, 400hp is going to be expensive. There's going to be very little bottom line difference in price later down the road. Spend more now or spend more later.

Sean

LS1 what?



really if your just looking for a number as cheap as you can, throw a SBC in there .

[slownslurious]

I was gonna say it, but didn't wanna get lynch mobbed.. besides by the time you finished the fabrication and stuff it probably would not be as cheap you would think.

[SHIEF]

I was gonna say it, but didn't wanna get lynch mobbed.. besides by the time you finished the fabrication and stuff it probably would not be as cheap you would think.

This is very true. I gave this serious consideration being I had a built small-block just sitting around. But when I started putting it down on paper, it really wasn't much cheaper (if at all) than a swap. Not to mention the chassis work that would be needed to actually be able to launch the car. What's the fun in a decently hp'd V8 if you can't launch it?

[float_6969]

I understand your point c-rad, which is why I was going KAT in the first place. But this isn't going to be a drag only car, I mean I do plan on driving the car on the streets on weekends and an occasional nice weekday as well. I was only saying the 400hp mark every now and then, so it would be more 300ish on a more regualr basis. Alot of regular parts for the CA are at AutoZone though.

If anything, this would make the KA a more likely choice than the CA. You are almost always going to make the same amount of power more reliably with a larger displacement motor than with a smaller displacement motor. I mean, if you compare the KA and CA in NA form, the KA starts out with another 60hp more than the CA. IIRC (it's been a while since I was paying attention to the KA-T scene) a KA-T at the same 7psi that the CA gets in stock form carries that extra horsepower through. I don't care what anybody says, "There's no replacement for displacement". If you apply the same technology to identical motors with the only difference being displacement, the larger displacement motor will ALWAYS make more power. The other way to look at that is that if you have two different size motors, and are looking for the same power goals, the larger motor will be under less stress and will be more street-able, making that power. I really feel that a CA that is capable of producing 400hp isn't going to be very street-able. I don't feel that way about the KA. That damn motor's got enough torque to make up for any deficiency in lag. THAT is the CA's weak point. Without boost or rev's, this motor is a dog. Plain and simple. Street driving isn't conducive to continually being inside either one of those parameters on a regular basis. Bottom line IMHO, if you build a CA with a big enough turbo to produce 400hp, it's not going to be very street-able. But as they say, opinion's are like azzhole's, everyone's got one....

[SHIEF]

Those are good points float. Maybe your right and this isn't the right engine to do this to. I guess I just don't want to go KA anymore, eventhough those engines have great potential and have proven themselves. Which is why I was going with one to begin with. What's your take on the RB20 then float? (yeah i know that parts aren't at AZ)

[boost_boy]

Kids, kids, can big poppa chime in . The KA is indeed a bigger displacement motor than the CA or SR. The KA24E produces 135hp IIRC and the CA18DE produces 125hp. The KA24DE produces 155hp and that is mainly due to displacement. I agree that the KA produces better torque than the CA and that it will make power sooner than the CA in turbo form as well. But that infamous 400hp can be obtained on a CA and still be rendered driveable. I have proven it, but the fact still remains, who in the hell wants to drive around in a 4cylinder producing 400hp everyday? It will stiink at the pump whether it be CA16DE(T) or KA24DE(T). Which one will live longer, I would say the CA because the KA in it's initial form would be on the brink of destruction at the 400hp level. Many have done it here and had their KAs last for a minute, but eventually "Pop". I fyou want the feel of a real racing engine, then the CA is a good choice. If you want the big engine pull and not all the revving, then the KA is the obvious choice.

Personally, I hate timing chains. I don't care for the design of the SR and the KA. If there was a tear down and reassemble contest between me and the CA and any of the others, I'm very confident that the disassembly of the KA and SR won't be nearly as simple as the CA. It's all about preference, so I say choose your weapons wisely. And BTW, you can take a bone stock CA (internally), add a $1300, engine management system, a $700 turbocharger, a $500 manifold, a $200 wastegate, a $600 for an intercooler and custom piping with the addition of a BOV, and a bit of tuning and you can see your 400hp goal be achieved and realize that you didn't destroy the engine in the process. But honestly, it's senseless to drive around with your car's boost that high to support that much power. If you get to 300whp and use some of the recipes I've offered, you can actually enjoy your car, have it be extremely driveable, and go smoke a few of the big dogs everso often.

Dee

[SHIEF]

Fugg it, I'm going CA. I agree that a 400hp CA is senseless to drive on the street. But I do plan on taking this car to the 1/4 often, so that's where that 400hp mark kicks in if I want it to and the occasional 'fast and furious' drag scene . I've torn down and built 3 KAE's, 1 w/ forged stuff. While they aren't bad, I agree that I like the timing belt much better than the chain setup on the KA's. And this is coming from my V8 chain background

[float_6969]

Those are good points float. Maybe your right and this isn't the right engine to do this to. I guess I just don't want to go KA anymore, eventhough those engines have great potential and have proven themselves. Which is why I was going with one to begin with. What's your take on the RB20 then float? (yeah i know that parts aren't at AZ)

I had a freind that did and RB20 swap in his S13 and he wasn't too impressed with it. It's a heavier motor, and you're only gaining .2L. Granted those 2 extra cylnders will help with torque, but for the extra weight, difficulty in finding parts, and the extra difficutly of the swap, I don't think going with an RB swap is worth it unless you're gonna mess with the RB25/26.

Fugg it, I'm going CA. I agree that a 400hp CA is senseless to drive on the street. But I do plan on taking this car to the 1/4 often, so that's where that 400hp mark kicks in if I want it to and the occasional 'fast and furious' drag scene . I've torn down and built 3 KAE's, 1 w/ forged stuff. While they aren't bad, I agree that I like the timing belt much better than the chain setup on the KA's. And this is coming from my V8 chain background

I think the biggest part of this goal coming to truition is going to be the selection of the turbo. Dee has come the closest to this and I would listen to his experience. And V8 Chain's don't count! They're like 2 feet long! JK! Done any gear drive conversions? I love that sound....

[Turbogixxer]

Good lord, where to start in this thread........

[boost_boy]

Good lord, where to start in this thread........

Get in where you fit . These kind of posts are fun. Good spatting and back at ease again. When you can get the attention of 3 of the 4 moderators of this forum, it obviously has some good points of interest.

Dee

[Turbogixxer]

Get in where you fit . These kind of posts are fun. Good spatting and back at ease again. When you can get the attention of 3 of the 4 moderators of this forum, it obviously has some good points of interest.

I think it is more of opinions and people trying to show their (or lack there of) manhood.

[float_6969]

Welcome to the thread Mr. Negativaty...

[SHIEF]

I think it is more of opinions and people trying to show their (or lack there of) manhood.

oMGhI2U!!!!!Don't go dropping mad knowledge on us ok?

[JaPPster]

so, can anybody please answer my question, about max. bhp, that stock ca18det gearbox, can handle, pls.

[c-rad]

so, can anybody please answer my question, about max. bhp, that stock ca18det gearbox, can handle, pls.

500+hp. Which is more than 99.9% of the people here will make.

[JaPPster]

u sure?

[c-rad]

u sure?

My friends SR makes 450whp and drives it daily. Still as smooth as butter.

[float_6969]

Nissan overbuilds their transmission's. I haven't heard about too many people having problems with them. Mainly just normal wear stuff like syncro's.

[slownslurious]

depends greatly on your hamfistedness.Shift like a jackass, the transmission will be toast with the stock motor. Treat it with care, 500 hp and it won't bat an eye. If you are interested in strengthening it up, there are certain things you can do. SCC had an article on improving the SER transmission a while ago, and a few of the tricks work on the ka one as well. They ground down the teeth to remove the sharp edges prone to breaking, I think they had all the gears cyrotreated or shot peened or maybe both, they kept their clutch sprung, and they used redline heavy gear oil. I can personally vouch for the redline, if it wasn't so ****ing hard to get here in TX I'd still be using it. I bought it at the track store when I used to live near a roadrace course, but I can't find it around here and its too expensive to pay shipping on gear oil.