I'm doing my timing chain and I ran into a roadblock, please help

[lbrowne]

*** EDIT: this is no longer a roadblock! please scroll through if this is your first time looking at this thread to see the progress. thanks! *****

Hey guys, I started dismantling everything tonight. I got the fan shroud, and the radiator removed for more space. got the intake removed, all the plugs and wires,top of the distributor - took a picture of its position, all the coolant is drained, oil is next...

as dumb as this sounds, i can not for the life of me figure out how to take the fan off. i don't want to break it, but in all the guides i've read and in the CHiltons, they just say - Remove Fan and clutch assembly. like jeeezus, what is it i have to let go in order to get it off?

you help is appreciated, i'm calling it a night now since i started late.

thanks,

lbrowne

[Nismo1182]

4 10mm nuts hold the fan to the fan clutch, another 4 10mm nuts hold the fan clutch to the water pump pulley.

[lbrowne]

ok cool, i probably shouldn't be so worried, my fan has cracks in it so i'm prpbably better off replacing it.

so take out those 4 bolts on the frontside first....then remove the clutch assembly after.

When I was poking around trying to find out which bolt to attempt first i tried one on the clutch assembly, if thats what it was, and it started turning my distributor....i hope i haven't screwed anything, i stopped doing it as soon as i saw the distributor move,, so it wasn't much.

but my understanding is as long as the distributor goes back in pointing to where it was originally, its all good.

[DAEDALUS]

You haven't done anything that could screw up your timing yet, have you? Just be sure to keep your #1 cylinder at top dead center on the compression stroke. Good call on replacing the fan. Small cracks aren't too big a concern, but better to buy a cheap fan than an expensive radiator.

[lbrowne]

thats what i'm asking, at least i don't think i've screwed up the timing.i should just manually turn the distributor till it points to #1? (because it wasn't after i shut the car off) it seems like what the fan is attached to, if that turns, not the fan itself, the distributor turns as well.

or should i just turn the distributor to were it was originially, i took a picture before i did anything so i know where its suppose to sit...

thanks for your helps guys,

lbrowne

[96_S14_SE]

Whaaa? The fan is attqached to the water pump / water pump pully, so I dont see hoe that would tun the dist. The belt on that pully is attached to the crank pully and that would do it. By the way you only need to remove the 10mm nuts holding the fan to the pully, not the ones on the clutch / fan istelf.

An easy way to do it is to tighten the PS belt down a bit extra then normal. Break all the 10's loose on the base of the clutch, loosen the belt and remove the nuts. Dont try to remove the fan with the belt on tight as the pully will shift ****eyed and makes it a pain.

Best thing about going with electros is the absence of this hellish fan I swapped out the rad in her 92 (again ugh, JY rad blew out after 8 months....) and it reminded me how much I hated having that silly fan and shroud in there. Oh the other thing cool about swapping out parts is I have alot of spares hehe, and while in there noticed her fan was massively cracked so I gave her mine which I took off with about 60k on it and in perfect / brand new condition hehe.

[lbrowne]

i'll be replacing my fan as well, it to has a few cracks in the fins. can i not install the fan shroud back? or can i only do this if i go with an electric set up?

when getting the engine to TDC, do I turn the crank pulley till the distributor points to number 1? on my Trans Am, theres a mark on the pulley and you just have to make sure its pointing straight up.....i couldn't find any such mark on the nissan.

all in all this job doesn't look too bad so far.

[96_S14_SE]

I would put the shroud back on for optimum effeciency... With the distance away from the radiator it sits it will pull air in from the front of the fan more then through the rad I would imagine.

Most people either shroud their electric fan and rad, or bolt it to the rad itself (but is not so good as it only covers roughly 60% of the rad, and causes the fan to work harder, thus is less efficient)...

For the other questions I cant really help as Im not to versed in the sohc...

According to my fsm just make sure the crank pully and #1 are at tdc (well if #1 is at tdc then the crank pully will as well hehe), and the dist rotor is set to no. 1 cyl spark position.

[lbrowne]

well this is what I'll do tonight:

1. Put a screwdriver in the #1 plug hole, and turn the crank pulley till it reaches its highest (might have to make a couple of revolutions) then shes at TDC.

2. Then turn the distributor till it points to #1 position, then remove the distributor.

3. Drain the oil, make a scribe to mark the position of the oil pump distributor to put it back properly....

If I said something that doesn't make sense, someone please tell me...

[lbrowne]

96_S14_SE: To explain it a bit more, right behind the fan before you take it off, theres 4 small bolts for what i guess is the fan clutch assmebly maybe? i dunno. spinning the fan itself does nothing, those bolts behind don't move.

but if you put a wrench on one of those bolts and try to loosen it, when it turns, the distributor turns as well. i'm not kidding.

maybe i'm not explaining it good enough...

[96_S14_SE]

Yeah I know, the belt moves hehe thus turning the crank pully. I had the same thing happen last night. Sray some PB blaster or equivalent on the nuts (degrease the pully later in case) then tighten the belt down if needed (doesnt sound like it if its turning the other pullies) and hold the next pully / the belt when first loosening the nuts.

Remove the belt and then fully remove the 4 nuts. Should be relatively hassle free, but the bolts may have some oxidation on them (my gfs had one that was a pig to get off) so it may be a little difficult...

[lbrowne]

oooooo k. got the fan off, man do i feel dumb! neither Canadian Tire or NAPA have a replacement fan for me, they say they have no listing for it.

Anyways, now I have a thing with TDC. right now i have the rotor pointing to #1 cylinder, and i can not insert a screwdriver into the # spark plug hole. In #2 i can put the screw driver all the way in no sweat.

So am I at TDC, or very close to it? Enough to continue on?

Thanks guys, I'm very VERY anxious to drive my 240. Once I figured out the timing chain kit had to be done, I haven't driven her at all.

EDIT: if shes at TDC right now, the guide I have says the following: "The keyways for camshaft and crankshaft sprockets must be aligned vertically."

But as she sits right now the keyways, which I'm assuming are the notches in the inner circle of the cam sprocket that have to line up to slide the sprocket on, they are not vertical.

Will that not screw up my timing by not putting the sprocket back on exactly the way i took it off? How can I turn them so they are vertical without disrupting the engine being at TDC?

i'm confused now.

[JNM240]

Actually, you are trying way to hard to get it to TDC. Once your front cover and old timing chain are off, all you have to do is loosen the rocker arm shaft bolts to close all your valves, then you can rotate the crank seperately from the camshaft. All you will need to do is make sure the dowls on the crank sprocket and cam sprocket are pointing straight up and that the dot on the crank is about 4 o'clock and the cam is a perfect 3 o'clock. Then just slip the chain on, making sure the the silver links line up with the 2 dots, then put the tensioner on. Make sure the GUIDE side is lined up then pull the small pin out of the tensioner, voila! tension!!

[JNM240]

O ya, the more important part to the TDC/timing issue is the oil pump/distributor alignment. With the front cover off and the oil pump and distributor out, put your chain kit with new tensioner and guides on. Reinstall the front cover with blue RTV silicone sealer. Align the small punchmark on the shaft of the oil pump with the alignment mark on the oil pump (small triangle). Install the oil pump (preferably with new gasket) and shaft into the front cover. Then turn the rotor on the distributor until the pointer points to the small groove on the lip of the distributor itself (#1 cylinder) and make sure the half moon on the oil pump shaft and the half moon on the distributor shaft will mate up properly. Carefully slip in your distributor. Button it all back up and you are finished! Before starting the motor, i would take a big socket wrench and turn the engine over by hand a few times to make sure everything is kosher.

Seriously, the hardest part of all this is removing enough stuff to get the front cover off! Good luck and email me if you have any questions. I also have the FSM for the 90 and am willing to scan and email you diagrams if you need them.

[lbrowne]

ok so let me get this straight then...

i have the distributor pointing to #1, so i can now remove that.

then on the under side, take off the top part of the oil pump/distributor, make a scribe of its location, and pull the thing out.

then once those are out remove the front cover, rotate the cam sproket so that the notches are pointing straight up and the lil bead/dot is point to 4:00 or thereabouts...replace those and the chain and the guides blah blah blah.

i know with the chain the lighter coloured links line up with the lil bead/dot marks...

re-assemble... i'm not sure of loosening the bolts for the rocker arms...i don't understand how this will all come together after all this rotating, cuz once i go to put that distributor and the oil pump back in, won't everything be out of whack and not allow them to slide back in?

fawk i'm starting to confuse myself :help

i'm just being overly cautious because i don't want to get her together and have her not start...know what i mean?

[lbrowne]

i was just thinking that i would put everything back on exactly the way i took it off...

[JNM240]

OK. Loosening the rocker arm shaft bolts CLOSES all the valves. Therefore you can turn the crank SEPERATE of the cam with NO danger of valves hitting pistons. This way, you can align the CAM sprocket with the keyway facing straight up and the dot facing 3 O'CLOCK (not 4), then rotate the CRANK until its keyway faces straight up and the dot faces 4 O'CLOCK. So long as this is now true and does not move, your are at TDC. Again, i found this easier once the front cover was off because i didnt have to stick anything into a spark plug hole to see where the piston was. Then install the timing chain kit and retighten the rocker arm shaft bolts to put tension BACK on the rocker arms (thus opening the valves). As long as your are still (now) at TDC, all you have to do is reinstall the front cover then set the oil pump to its matchmarks, install it, then set the distributor to its matchmarks and make sure the half moons on the oil pump shaft and distributor match up. Then the distributor slips right in!

[lbrowne]

first off, i really appreciate you helping me.

i don't feel so squimish about loosening the rocker arm shaft bolts.

I'm going to remove the distributor tonight with it sitting at #1, make my marks on the oil pump distributor and remove that. then once i find a suitable tool to remove the crank pulley, i'll remove that and then the front cover.

loosen the rocker arm shaft bolts, so it wiggles in my hand i guess, then turn the crank till the cam sprocket keyway points straight up. i guess i just can't see how this separates the crank from the cam in rotation. cuz the sprocket is still attached to the end of the cam right?

does any one know if theres a specific crank pulley puller i need, because in this city i'm having trouble locating anything to do with nissans. (theres no nissan dealership here either)

[DAEDALUS]

If you're removing the front cover, is there any need to mess with the rocker arms or cam sprockets? I think you can remove the chain after loosening the tensioner, then you can take the chain off and replace it, making sure to line up all 3 alignment mark pairs.Most any puller will work so long as it's large enough for your pulley. 2 or 3 jaws, it shouldn't matter. You will probably have to remove the large washer under the bolt first, and then "step" it out. That is, loosen the bolt, pull till the pulley hits the bolt. Then loosen some more, pull again, etc etc till the pulley's all the way off.

[lbrowne]

thats what i was thinking. I checked my existing sprockets and they look top notch. i was thinking of replacing just the top one just for shiats n giggles and just make sure its all on there exactly they way i took it off.

my chain isn't that bad either but it is definitely being replaced since its been rubbing against the mounting studs of the driver side timing guide. (the guide is completely gone)

[lbrowne]

bump bump bump!

heres my progress.

distributor removed, marked on the cover the position of the oil pump shaft (the lil half moon)

removed the waterpump and fan clutch assembly.

now i bought this crank pulley puller tool from NAPA. 3 jaw set up, i have it on and the center piece is very tightly screwed into the top of the crank pulley bolt. do i now get a wrench and start to loosen the center bolt? i'm kinda confused as to what happens now cuz the engine seems to want to turn over if i try to turn the whole tool/mechanism.

not only that but it won't make a revolution because the the lil nipple thing for the timing mark is sticking out and in the way....

do i remove the 4 smaller bolts around the main center bolt first?

:help

[JNM240]

So you are trying to remove the crankshaft bolt? I used an electric impact wrench once my whole engine is out of the car. IIRC there are a few holes on the inside of the crank pulley. You will want to slip a heavy duty screwdriver thru there to brace it so you can get a mean socket wrench on it (more than likely with a cheater bar, i think its torqued to 150ft/lbs). Once its loose then use your puller to remove the pulley. Dont forget there are a few cooling lines on the front cover that need to be removed in order to get it off.

Edit: Oh yeah, dont worry about those 4 bolts that surround the crank bolt. You should not need to remove them. If there is no suitable place to brace the crank pulley from moving, try removing your starter and wedging a screwdriver into the flywheel's ring teeth to brace the engine from turning while breaking the crank bolt loose. Hope this helps!

[lbrowne]

this one is going to be fun i can see it...

i have a big socket that i bought to do the radius arm bushings on my explorer, and what do ya know its the same size. i got a matching heavy duty wrench as well.

with all this stuff removed, need i worry if i knock her off of TDC? i'm gunna do my best to make to not do that, even though the screwdriver in the #1 plug hole seems to work pretty good.

EDIT: oook, is there another way to take off that bolt because trying to put a screwdriver through the back, theres no way its going to stay there while i pounce on the socket.

i'm guessing you are talking about the oval type holes in the back, cuz the screwdriver won't stay there on its own. and i don't have an impact gun (it says not to use one either but anyways) I'm thinking an impact wrench is a little different, but how did you brace the pulley so it took it off?

i'm almost there!!!

there has to be people out there that got that bolt off with different methods...back to searchin the archives for poeple who did pulley upgrades.

[Structure240sx]

ur talking about the crank pulley bolt right? get someone to sit in the car with it in 5th and push down on the brakes. heard of people doing this to install underdrive pullies

[lbrowne]

crank pulley bolt yup, but what does putting the brakes on have to do with it...other than keeping the car from movin? or is that the idea.

right now the car is in neutral, so put it in 5th, out with the clutch, and have someone hold the brake down for safety measure.

the engine won't turn over if i jump on the socktet handle?

i'll try this tomorrow if anyone has success with this.

thanks!

[JNM240]

Thats not a bad idea. With the brakes on, the diff cant turn. If the diff cant turn, the transmission in gear, it cant turn. Then the engine cant turn either. Remember, once your front cover is off, you can easily relocate TDC by the keyway on both sprockets. So trying the screwdriver in the oval holes you will have to turn the engine enough to lodge the screwdriver against the lip where the oil pan and front cover meet.

I really wish i had taken some pics when putting my engine together! It sat in peices for 4 months and when i finally got the block back i took a week to put it all back together and took my time, but not enough time to think about snapping a few informative pics along the way. Keep us informed on your progress!

[DAEDALUS]

Ahhh...a manual transmission car gives you guys an option for freezing the crankshaft. But what about us poor souls with an automatic? You guys are going to smile when I tell you one trick to removing the bolt. At least I did when I learned not too long ago. Take your breaker bar with the socket and place the socket securely on the bolt head. Then rotate the wrench toward the driver's side of the car, rotating the entire pulley/crankshaft. Find a strong secure footing for the wrench against a sturdy part of the frame. Remove the injector and fuel pump fuses, and then just pop the starter for half a second. Might take a couple tries, but it should break the hold pretty quick. Use a belt or chain wrench to return the pulley to #1 TDC on compression after the bolt is finger-loose.Of course, if you can't get the bolt off, you have to ask yourself how you're going to torque it up later. Figure this one out first before you start. I use a long chain wrench against the frame to hold the pulley still while I torque up the bolt. 270 ft-lbs on my car!Not sure about screwing the remover into the bolt though. The threaded shank should push against the bolt but stay in one place. Thus when you turn the shank the jaws move away from the engine, taking the pulley with it.

[lbrowne]

i'm going to try the 5th gear method tonight. i'm at work now.

my car is at TDC right now, and my keyways are pointing straight down, with the dot on the top sprocket pointing to 9 o'clock.

so i'm thinking to leave that as is once i get her apart, and putting my new cam sprocket back on the same way, and match the light coloured chain links with the dots...i wouldn't understand why i would have to rotate her so that the keyways are poitning straight up.

although...if i do rotate the keyways so they are pointing straight up to replace my parts and to be exact with the installation guide, all i have to do then is rotate them back so they are pointing straight down for her to be at TDC....right?

ps, i heard about the starter method as well, but i'm not going that route at this point. but thanks for the info!

[lbrowne]

anyone have in a FSM the exact size of the crank pulley bolt? I have a 1 1/8 inch socket on there and its a *tiny* bit too big.

it would be a great help, i'm going to try and land a breaker bar today.

[bruinbear714]

Wow you're doing timing chain and you ran into a ROADBLOCK trying to remove the fan? Uh oh.

Make sure you keep everything organized as most likely will end up with extra bolts. I usually put sets of bolts and parts in their own zip lock bags. It saved me hours later trying to figure out which bolt belonged to which part.