I know I know.. another SR vs KA-T but plz read
-
Kaioshin1982
- Posts: 1738
- Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:55 pm
- Car: Not a 240 =) Thinking of getting one again...
I know I know.. another SR vs KA-T but plz read
I have read most of the KA-T vs SR threads in the past and I know that there were tons of it but I just wanna know what IS better.... obiously SR can rev higher and its Inline 4 and I guess stronger internal? but KA-T has the torque which I love. Any other things for both engines?
-
Kaioshin1982
- Posts: 1738
- Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:55 pm
- Car: Not a 240 =) Thinking of getting one again...
-
spec-v5150
- Posts: 1043
- Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 1:24 pm
I swapped my 240 to an RB20. Looking back...there was no reason for it. Everything it takes to turbo a KA is readily available. To me there is no reason to swap really. Sure by the time you turbo your KA, you could have gotten a swap but, to me it isnt really worth the extra hassle. Besides if more peopel go the KA route...more parts will be available
-
MikeMurphy
- Posts: 824
- Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2003 12:20 pm
- Car: Guess
- Contact:
Kaioshin,
You fail to make this thread any different than any of the other threads. How do you have almost 1000 posts and not know anything about this?
bottom line, SR rods and crank are marginally strongersr has more bore than strokeKA has more stroke than boreSR has less stock compression
Do your own research based on that.
You fail to make this thread any different than any of the other threads. How do you have almost 1000 posts and not know anything about this?
bottom line, SR rods and crank are marginally strongersr has more bore than strokeKA has more stroke than boreSR has less stock compression
Do your own research based on that.
-
BuudWeizErr
- Posts: 4745
- Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2002 11:35 am
-
Kaioshin1982
- Posts: 1738
- Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:55 pm
- Car: Not a 240 =) Thinking of getting one again...
-
aleph1
- Posts: 907
- Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2002 10:08 pm
- Car: 1990 240SX hatch MODS: class.
- Location: Fort Collins CO
Bottom line, I think for the money you put in, a KA-T will, in most cases, produce more HP.
To have a shop swap in the SR and all related SR swap accessories and mods (FMIC, exhuast, intake, fuel pump, etc etc), its comes to about 5Gs MINIMUM, but i dare you to find a shop that will be that cheap, more often than not its around 6K. Of course you could do it yourself, so you save maybe 1000-1500 on labor....still around 4000 dollars. If anything goes wrong, parts are still pretty expensive, eg water pump= at least 100 bucks.
There are people that have turboed the KA with only 2500 or so. And it works fine, for that cheap just use a T3 from a Z31 and get like a starion FMIC. Those will save money, and it can handle 8psi easily and put you into the 220whp range. Or you coule even buy Greddys turbo kit for roughly 2500-3000 and it comes with new injectors, emanage, TD06 turbo, etc...only thing its missing is an FMIC, but it doesnt require it and you could get it later (recommended), and it produces 210hp at only 6psi. Parts available everywhere, eg water pump = 30-50 bucks.
Just MHO.
To have a shop swap in the SR and all related SR swap accessories and mods (FMIC, exhuast, intake, fuel pump, etc etc), its comes to about 5Gs MINIMUM, but i dare you to find a shop that will be that cheap, more often than not its around 6K. Of course you could do it yourself, so you save maybe 1000-1500 on labor....still around 4000 dollars. If anything goes wrong, parts are still pretty expensive, eg water pump= at least 100 bucks.
There are people that have turboed the KA with only 2500 or so. And it works fine, for that cheap just use a T3 from a Z31 and get like a starion FMIC. Those will save money, and it can handle 8psi easily and put you into the 220whp range. Or you coule even buy Greddys turbo kit for roughly 2500-3000 and it comes with new injectors, emanage, TD06 turbo, etc...only thing its missing is an FMIC, but it doesnt require it and you could get it later (recommended), and it produces 210hp at only 6psi. Parts available everywhere, eg water pump = 30-50 bucks.
Just MHO.
-
WDRacing
- Moderator
- Posts: 15983
- Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 2:00 am
- Car: 95 240SX, 99 BMW 540i, 01 Chevy Express, 14 Ford Escape
- Location: MFFO
- Contact:
I'll leave this open for a day or 2, but there is no more info to be had here then the last one I started a few months ago.
IMO....why swap an SR. Really??? Why swap the SR, unless your looking for a cool JDM swap(in which case the RB would be better) then you have NOTHING...get that....NOTHING to gain. The low rpm KA can become a high rpm KA with valvatrain work and balancing. The internals have been proven to take 350hp worth of abuse. They've made over 500hp on a simple JWT ecu and boost pressure. Hello!!!!!!! Why swap????? The damn things can be blown apart and another can be bought for a couple hundred bucks...I'm so tired of this comparison.
I don't want to see any well the SR has this or the KA has that. I wanna know what you actually gain by doing a swap.
WD
IMO....why swap an SR. Really??? Why swap the SR, unless your looking for a cool JDM swap(in which case the RB would be better) then you have NOTHING...get that....NOTHING to gain. The low rpm KA can become a high rpm KA with valvatrain work and balancing. The internals have been proven to take 350hp worth of abuse. They've made over 500hp on a simple JWT ecu and boost pressure. Hello!!!!!!! Why swap????? The damn things can be blown apart and another can be bought for a couple hundred bucks...I'm so tired of this comparison.
I don't want to see any well the SR has this or the KA has that. I wanna know what you actually gain by doing a swap.
WD
Ive had my sr for a year and a half and Ive had my share of problems. Hell I even melted a piston this year.
But it was because of my own stupidity. The car had been very reliabe for the most part.
On the other hand I know 2 guys here it WI that have done the KA-t. One of them is a knowledgable with motor the other not so much.
Each of them have blown 2 motors each.
I cant see putting motors in and out like they have.
People will say "ohhh sr is played" or whatever.
I never heard that because I was too far ahead of them when we raced.
Who cares????
But it was because of my own stupidity. The car had been very reliabe for the most part.
On the other hand I know 2 guys here it WI that have done the KA-t. One of them is a knowledgable with motor the other not so much.
Each of them have blown 2 motors each.
I cant see putting motors in and out like they have.
People will say "ohhh sr is played" or whatever.
I never heard that because I was too far ahead of them when we raced.
Who cares????
aside from the mechanical crap, I assume a few things:1.) to make power you have to replace some parts on either engine.2.) parts from japan are usually more expensive and harder to get than parts from the US.3.) The sr20 is from japan, and replacement parts will mostly have to be imported or bought at higher prices by importers.4.) the ka24de is in your car already and parts for it are available domestically. And if you need an alternator, there is napa/autozone/oreileys, whatever...
That made my mind up for me.
That made my mind up for me.
If u got a crappy dyin KA like me u get a turbo motor and trans with a SR. SR is built for a turbo and if u look parts aren't too hard to find and aren't that expensive. If u have a KA with low miles or recently rebuilt i dont see a problem with it! The ka has displacement over Sr so if you have money to blow u'll enjoy the extra displacement.
the SR has absolutely no advantage, except simplicity. There are catalouges of parts just to bolt on, the KA has every capability that the SR does. The KA just takes more work and more research. (I am only talking about 500+ whp) also with the high HP KAs your motors fate is layed in the hands of the machine shop. If doing a swap go RB.
-
TrunkMonkey
- Posts: 3190
- Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
- Car: 2000 Lincoln Navigator
hmmm...another kat vs. sr20det thread.
both engines have great potential. both have their advantages and disadvantages. one isn't better than the other because in the end, reliability and performance of either engine ultimately lies in the hand of the tuner.
now that the BS is out of the way...
given the same hp/torque outputs, a kat will walk on an sr each and every time.
-demetrius
both engines have great potential. both have their advantages and disadvantages. one isn't better than the other because in the end, reliability and performance of either engine ultimately lies in the hand of the tuner.
now that the BS is out of the way...
given the same hp/torque outputs, a kat will walk on an sr each and every time.
-demetrius
-
TrunkMonkey
- Posts: 3190
- Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
- Car: 2000 Lincoln Navigator
-
C-Kwik
- Moderator
- Posts: 8070
- Joined: Thu Aug 01, 2002 9:28 pm
- Car: 2013 Chevy Volt, 1991 Honda CRX DX
Well if it's given the same HP and torque outputs, would they not be the same essentially? Not that it will actually happen though since the torque curves of the two motors are very different. But the HP can still be the same despite that fact. And to this, the car that has the most area under the HP curve at all RPM's the motor will see during a race should win. As much as reliability is in the hands of the tuner, so is the overall performance. This is just a moot argument. You want to be the fastest? Tune it the best from the ground up. The motors put out a similar amount of HP. Where the KA maximizes displacement, the SR maximizes leverage through higher RPM's. The one who uses the advantages to the fullest potential and minimizes the disadvantages will likely win this battle.
-
aleph1
- Posts: 907
- Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2002 10:08 pm
- Car: 1990 240SX hatch MODS: class.
- Location: Fort Collins CO
You have 5Gs, I can GUARATEE you that if you put said money into a KAT, it will with go MUCH further than an SR. SR with normal bolt on mods done at swap time (roughly 5gs all together) yields something like 180-220whp.
You get a turbo setup for a KAT, and since you have 5gs you can get a nice turbo setup with all the normal aftermarket turbo goodies, with a good fuel system going as well as some Ross pistons, it will boost 10psi, at least, reliably. At this boost, the engine output will likely be around 250-280whp. As a bonus, all maintaince parts at local shops, cheap, and if you DO happen to blow engines (as most SR owners will claim), they are cheap too.
KA is just a strong as SR, ka has forged rods, piston oil squiters (found usually in turbo cars to cool down the pistons from the high combustion temps), the weak point are the pistons, which I believe is also a weak point of the SR (also rocker arms). Dont quote me on that though.
Listen, the SR isnt any better than the KA other than it comes stock turbocharged. You are missing the whole point of the SR, it was never meant to be imported and swapped here for 3000 dollars for an extra 50hp. The japanese got it stock, so they worked with what they got. We got the KA, so I say, we should work with what we already have, your money WILL go further.
NOTE: Usually its only the SR owners who badmouth the KA, buying into SuperStreet saying that its a truck engine and non turbo so it MUST suck...Once I turbo my KA (early next year, finally) I will personally challenge any SR owner that thinks the KA sucks.
You get a turbo setup for a KAT, and since you have 5gs you can get a nice turbo setup with all the normal aftermarket turbo goodies, with a good fuel system going as well as some Ross pistons, it will boost 10psi, at least, reliably. At this boost, the engine output will likely be around 250-280whp. As a bonus, all maintaince parts at local shops, cheap, and if you DO happen to blow engines (as most SR owners will claim), they are cheap too.
KA is just a strong as SR, ka has forged rods, piston oil squiters (found usually in turbo cars to cool down the pistons from the high combustion temps), the weak point are the pistons, which I believe is also a weak point of the SR (also rocker arms). Dont quote me on that though.
Listen, the SR isnt any better than the KA other than it comes stock turbocharged. You are missing the whole point of the SR, it was never meant to be imported and swapped here for 3000 dollars for an extra 50hp. The japanese got it stock, so they worked with what they got. We got the KA, so I say, we should work with what we already have, your money WILL go further.
NOTE: Usually its only the SR owners who badmouth the KA, buying into SuperStreet saying that its a truck engine and non turbo so it MUST suck...Once I turbo my KA (early next year, finally) I will personally challenge any SR owner that thinks the KA sucks.
-
SingleCamSam
- Posts: 498
- Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 4:37 pm
-
SingleCamSam
- Posts: 498
- Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 4:37 pm
Cost to make 300whp with an SR20DET-Motor and swap (assuming you do it yourself) - 2600-Turbo Upgrade- 500 (basic T3/T04E)-Engine management- 1000 (assuming JWT/bigger injectors/fuel pump)
You just spent 4100 bucks
Cost to make 300whp with a KA-Swap? What swap? $0-Turbocharger and accessories such as manifold/intercooler etc - $2000 (and this is assuming you buy new. At retail)-Engine Management- $1000
You just spent 3k, have a powerband that starts 3000rpms earlier, likely make about 30 more lb-ft of peak torque, and have a motor that will cost you $500 to replace.
THE SR SWAP IS A WASTE OF MONEY!! For $500 more you could have an RB25.
You just spent 4100 bucks
Cost to make 300whp with a KA-Swap? What swap? $0-Turbocharger and accessories such as manifold/intercooler etc - $2000 (and this is assuming you buy new. At retail)-Engine Management- $1000
You just spent 3k, have a powerband that starts 3000rpms earlier, likely make about 30 more lb-ft of peak torque, and have a motor that will cost you $500 to replace.
THE SR SWAP IS A WASTE OF MONEY!! For $500 more you could have an RB25.
-
WDRacing
- Moderator
- Posts: 15983
- Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 2:00 am
- Car: 95 240SX, 99 BMW 540i, 01 Chevy Express, 14 Ford Escape
- Location: MFFO
- Contact:
nismodave wrote:Ive had my sr for a year and a half and Ive had my share of problems. Hell I even melted a piston this year.
But it was because of my own stupidity. The car had been very reliabe for the most part.
On the other hand I know 2 guys here it WI that have done the KA-t. One of them is a knowledgable with motor the other not so much.
Each of them have blown 2 motors each.
I cant see putting motors in and out like they have.
People will say "ohhh sr is played" or whatever.
I never heard that because I was too far ahead of them when we raced.
Who cares????
2 motors each...lmao, and these are your knowledgeable friends.Your missing the point to this whole thread.
WHY should you swap in a SR20 instead of boosting your KA24DE?? The answer is you shouldn't. I have yet to hear 1 reason to do the swap. Dyno sheets really don't prove anything unless both cars are built within real strict tolerance of each other. Turbo trim as well as literally tons of different things need to be takin into account. Hell I picked up 27hp with a gasket matched and ported IHE and I did it myself.
I'm still very interested in real answers to the question, why do the swap?
WD
-
TrunkMonkey
- Posts: 3190
- Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 7:48 am
- Car: 2000 Lincoln Navigator
You're 2 for 4..not a great start. KA rods and crank are stronger than SR.MikeMurphy wrote:Kaioshin,
You fail to make this thread any different than any of the other threads. How do you have almost 1000 posts and not know anything about this?
bottom line, SR rods and crank are marginally strongersr has more bore than strokeKA has more stroke than boreSR has less stock compression
Do your own research based on that.
SR is square
This question is actually what caused me to go KA. I got in a big argument about SR vs KA a few weeks ago and as I was defending the KA I realized more and more that it's a better platform for what I want...and I don't have to worry about paying out the A$$ for a motor that came from a junkyard that may or may not work.WDRacing wrote:2 motors each...lmao, and these are your knowledgeable friends.Your missing the point to this whole thread.
WHY should you swap in a SR20 instead of boosting your KA24DE?? The answer is you shouldn't. I have yet to hear 1 reason to do the swap. Dyno sheets really don't prove anything unless both cars are built within real strict tolerance of each other. Turbo trim as well as literally tons of different things need to be takin into account. Hell I picked up 27hp with a gasket matched and ported IHE and I did it myself.
I'm still very interested in real answers to the question, why do the swap?
WD
-
TopStreet240
- Posts: 224
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 5:22 am
- Car: Cars! movies, books,
- Contact:
-Nismodave which two guys are you talking about? I live in the milwaukee area and have not blown two motors and i put a turbo on the ka. what kind of set up are they running, how did it blow up, I ask because if it was something stupid then how can you blame the ka. The motor will hold, many people on this forum have seen/ done it. idk i was just curious who else has a setup like mine?