I have a few weeks to save two automakers.

[MinisterofDOOM]

425HP from the factory is almost standard from the factory anymore

Dude..."anymore" is irrelevant. The Charger hit the market in 2005, not 2010. None of the cars you list to support your claims existed then.
And all those cars you're listing that make more power also COST SIGNIFICANTLY MORE. GT500 Mustang? Are you KIDDING? That's a $60k car! ZR1 is over $100k. And they're not even the SAME KIND OF CAR. You're not arguing sense. By your logic, Civics should all make over 330hp because the G35 does. A: The Civic isn't a G35 and B: the Civic costs half as much anyway.

...small block 318, a small block 360, a big block 383, a bigger block 426, and an ohmygod are you crazy bigger block 440...

First off, I fail to see what this has to do with anything. No one uses "big block" motors in anything anymore. Chrysler's old LA engine, which the new "Hemi" replaced, was the same as their old small block. But the new Hemi is actually MORE powerful.

Secondly, the current charger's displacements fit right in that list. 347 or 372. In a "small block."

Third, it wasn't the 440 that was the "ohmygod" powerplant. That was the 426. The 440, like the rest of the Charger's big block powerplants aside from the 426, had Wedge heads. The 426 had Hemi heads and was the top-end option.

The Phaeton can never succeed here, unless they break it off as a separate brand.

PRODUCT PRODUCT PRODUCT. Channel your inner Lutz. Ford and GM are doing okay because they both build cars people want to own. Chrysler doesn't build anything anyone wants to own and VW builds cars people want to own but are scared to buy.

Oh, I know that. I'm not arguing that the Phaeton is a good business decision. I just want to see more of them driving around.

[93coupe]

Totally not relevant to the argument but I like the wedge, 383 and 440 better than the hemi.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

425HP from the factory is almost standard from the factory anymore

Dude..."anymore" is irrelevant. The Charger hit the market in 2005, not 2010. None of the cars you list to support your claims existed then.
And all those cars you're listing that make more power also COST SIGNIFICANTLY MORE. GT500 Mustang? Are you KIDDING? That's a $60k car! ZR1 is over $100k. And they're not even the SAME KIND OF CAR. You're not arguing sense. By your logic, Civics should all make over 330hp because the G35 does. A: The Civic isn't a G35 and B: the Civic costs half as much anyway.

...small block 318, a small block 360, a big block 383, a bigger block 426, and an ohmygod are you crazy bigger block 440...

First off, I fail to see what this has to do with anything. No one uses "big block" motors in anything anymore. Chrysler's old LA engine, which the new "Hemi" replaced, was the same as their old small block. But the new Hemi is actually MORE powerful.

Secondly, the current charger's displacements fit right in that list. 347 or 372. In a "small block."

Third, it wasn't the 440 that was the "ohmygod" powerplant. That was the 426. The 440, like the rest of the Charger's big block powerplants aside from the 426, had Wedge heads. The 426 had Hemi heads and was the top-end option.

OK, I'll use saloons that were out then that are in the same class as the SRT8 Charger (which I might add that brand new from the dealer will cast you between $40-50K depending on which package you choose)... Oh wait I can't because no American manufacturer had a high powered Saloon back when the SRT8 Charger and 300 were introduced, except maybe the Mercury Marauder or GTO Judge, Now if you were to look at no domestic offerings, the RS4, Volvo S60, but even those are stretching the confines of same class as the Charger.

While 425Hp was a big deal in 05 and even 06, it really isn't anything spectacular anymore. Oh and to say that the Mustang Cobra and Corvette aren't considered Charger SRT8 rivals is a bit foolish simply because while the new Charger is a saloon, it's still considered a muscle car, as are the Mustang, Camaro, and Corvette, and as far as I know the Mustang Cobra and Z06 were out when the SRT8 Charger was introduced.

[Bubba1]

OK, I'll use saloons that were out then that are in the same class as the SRT8 Charger (which I might add that brand new from the dealer will cast you between $40-50K depending on which package you choose)... Oh wait I can't because no American manufacturer had a high powered Saloon back when the SRT8 Charger and 300 were introduced, except maybe the Mercury Marauder or GTO Judge, Now if you were to look at no domestic offerings, the RS4, Volvo S60, but even those are stretching the confines of same class as the Charger.

While 425Hp was a big deal in 05 and even 06, it really isn't anything spectacular anymore. Oh and to say that the Mustang Cobra and Corvette aren't considered Charger SRT8 rivals is a bit foolish simply because while the new Charger is a saloon, it's still considered a muscle car, as are the Mustang, Camaro, and Corvette, and as far as I know the Mustang Cobra and Z06 were out when the SRT8 Charger was introduced.

I think I need to visit a saloon after reading your posts, man... You're all over the place... Trying to compare an anachonistic heavy muscle car (SRT-8 Charger) with a more expensive sports car (corvette) or a pony car (mustang) is like comparing apples to oranges. To make it even worse, you were even throwing out the limited production ZR1 (a $100K sports car), and an expensive tuner car like a Rousch and trying to compare them to a bone stock Charger sedan? BZZT.

MoD was right on about the new Hemi V8. Your reminiscing about the old big blocks of yesteryear, yet you fail to grasp that the new hemi engine is MORE POWERFUL .
To correct you about similar era domestic 400hp sedans to the SRT-8 Charger? Remember the Holden Monaro based Pontiac GTO? 400 hp built 2005-2006. This Charger has more power. And for the record, The (Grand Marquis with blacked out trim) Marauder had only 302 hp and Ford stopped building them in 2004. And GM stopped making the Judge decades ago. That 455 motor in their biggest year churned out maybe 335 hp stock.

And yes there are a lot of 400 hp cars out there now, but not big heavy inexpensive American sedans. Sorry.

[Rex]

People do not realize that when they buy a VW it is going to cost about the same to repair them as a Mercedes does. As far as i am concerned they are junk.

This and they never buy another and tell everyone about it.

... a base model Accord for $21k or a base model Passat for $27k. Really...who the hell is going to buy the Passat?

Not to even mention the re-sale implications 3-5 years later.

The Phaeton was a worse (sales/marketing) flop than the original Q45.

And for the last time it's "Punch Bug" not "Punch VW". They should have used that commercial/slogan when they first brought back the Beetle.

And I've always like VW ... all the way back to the mid 80's

[Bubba1]

And for the last time it's "Punch Bug" not "Punch VW". They should have used that commercial/slogan when they first brought back the Beetle.

That VW commercial brought back some fun memories. Back in the 60's, when Veedub Beetles were plentiful, my family called it "Slug - a - bug" And it only applied to Beetles and the color didn;t matter. My brother, sister and I used to play it on long car trips. It was the 3 of us together in the back seat (me in the middle as the youngest) and I used to get black/blue on both arms. And passing a VW dealer usually resulted in a brawl.