i don't want to be an SR fanboi

[themadscientist]

I had the hood open on my 180 at a hobby shop on base and a guy walked by and stopped. He just stared at the CA, the way we stare at bare bewbies. I was walking up to the car from getting a tool and I see this guy, transfixed, so I watch. He must have stood there for a full minute, dumbfounded. The novelty over I asked "what's up?" He asked "what is that?" I replied, "a CA18." He asked searchingly, "where did you get it?" I laughed an said "it came with the car."

He never knew they even existed. I gave him a quick history of the Silvia and 180, the various motors in its life and he was very surprised to learn the SR was not the only motor the cars came with. That's fun to do.

[boost_boy]

The CA is the easiest of the three to service and feels the way it sounds (whicked ). How I know because I own multiple CA powered vehicles that produce better than 400whp in both RWD and FWD and they are a blast to drive. Not slamming down on you, so please don't take it that way. They are all decent motors, but the SR is the more prone to spitting-up things that we CAers don't have to worry about. I've serviced them all and the CA, though a bit smaller than the SR, is just plain 'ol (IMHO) better when it comes to fun and reliabilty. The SR has too many oil pan components and the KA and SR both suck because they're chain driven (YUK). Again, just my opinion because I'm biased to belt driven engines and I can tear these down much faster than the rest of them, if I need to .

Dee

[PyR0NiAk]

4G63s and 4G37s are belt driven too... Those motors are notorious for having the timing belts break and destroy the motor. I, myself, was excited to find out the SR was chain driven. Everyone has their likes and dislikes. I grew up biased toward chevrolet and hated ford with a passion. (Too many wannabes with V6 mustangs at my high school.) I then replaced the entire front-end on a 1st gen eclipse. $500 for a car with 75k miles and a parts car can't be beat. That got me started on the import craze, but before that, I wouldn't have even touched an import. Sorry for the long drawn out story, but I guess the point is everyone has their preferences, until something happens to change them.

[themadscientist]

As an L and FJ owner, I don't share the chain hate. My motors do have double row chains though, SR don't.

I am not a belt apologist either. They are great, smooth and accurate, but must be maintained.

One could argue parasitic loss of chain -vs- belt but the difference would be so infinitesimal it would look like the argument was more agenda-driven than practical.

Now, gear drive, so sexy. Listen to it whine like a girl who got her credit cards cut up.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...lated

[PyR0NiAk]

Now, gear drive, so sexy. Listen to it whine like a girl who got her credit cards cut up.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...lated

sig-worthy..

[ca18detgabby]

4G63s and 4G37s are belt driven too... Those motors are notorious for having the timing belts break and destroy the motor.

neglect of proper matienance is not a short fall for ANY powerplant.

2jz's are belt drven as well as RBs...... just sayin

[ca18detgabby]

[QUOTE=ragenasian][/QUOTE]

Im going to come steal this damn thing if it doesnt end up in a car soon.

[PyR0NiAk]

neglect of proper matienance is not a short fall for ANY powerplant.

Mine never broke the belt. My car got t-boned by a girl coming from a stop sign. They did have to have their belts changed like crazy-often though if I remember correctly. (Much more often than you would need to change a chain.) Ford Probes had this same issue.

[fess13]

what kind of work goes into rebuilding an engine? is there a site that will walk me through the steps of restoring an engine? what kind of things i have to look out for? i'm guessing it's more complicated than getting new cams / spark plugs & pistons.

also, some people say ca18det parts are very hard to come by and now you guys are saying i can grab parts from autozone?
Modified by fess13 at 7:34 PM 1/26/2010

[PyR0NiAk]

sjbsuperman1425... I found an old post of yours when reading through a faq...

basically...get an SR or stay with the KA

Found here: zerothread?id=114953

fess, my brother rebuilt his ka with nothing but an fsm. You can find everything you need here: zerothread/136061

[ca18detgabby]

what kind of work goes into rebuilding an engine? is there a site that will walk me through the steps of restoring an engine? what kind of things i have to look out for? i'm guessing it's more complicated than getting new cams / spark plugs & pistons.

spark plugs are at any parts store. 4 bucks or so a set.......

Cams(Jun, tomie, reginders)

Pistons(any aftermarket supplier)

it isnt ANY harder than an SR. Infact CA18DE and ET were used state side so lots of OE type parts(like waterpumps) are on the shelf at advance auto parts any day of the week.

rebuilding it is just like rebuilding any other motor. depends on how big or bad you want to go, but it is much better to go ahead and replace some basic stuff well it is easily accessible.

Getting a CA,SR, or w/e are OLD motors these days(the youngest being 2002? 8 YEARS old..... for an S15 SR) and are all sourced from Japanese JUNK YARDS. So, this motor you get is old, something others have already junked once, then shipped over here in containers(and treated like junk) and then kept in sambles till it is put on a pallet and sent to you.

think of it this way, if you go the extra step and rebuild it....... you have piece of mind and know what condition everything is in BEFORE you try to drive it down the block.

[ca18detgabby]

also, some people say ca18det parts are very hard to come by and now you guys are saying i can grab parts from autozone?

Modified by fess13 at 7:34 PM 1/26/2010

nothing is hard to find. some aftermarket parts are hard to find CHEAP, as there arent as many Ebay nock of shiz going on w/ CA parts.

[fess13]

Getting a CA,SR, or w/e are OLD motors these days(the youngest being 2002? 8 YEARS old..... for an S15 SR) and are all sourced from Japanese JUNK YARDS. So, this motor you get is old, something others have already junked once, then shipped over here in containers(and treated like junk) and then kept in sambles till it is put on a pallet and sent to you.

think of it this way, if you go the extra step and rebuild it....... you have piece of mind and know what condition everything is in BEFORE you try to drive it down the block.

Well this is turning out to be a very helpful thread! I'm excited to get my hands dirty! I'm also much less cautious about choosing the CA over the sr as well. I won't be doing the swap for a few more months but it would certainly help to know what I have to expect as far as what I'm going to need to restore. I'll do some more searching for engine-rebuild-how-to's

[float_6969]

TMS, if you had a KA, and turbo'd it, and it bent a rod, and replaced bent rod, and then bent another rod, and then replaced it, and then had another rod go through the block, would you still keep the KA? The KA is INFAMOUS for tossing rods through the block. Heck, they do it without being turbo'd.

I've gone down the KA-T road and regretted every penny I spent. I don't like how the motor revs, I don't like how it sounds, I don't like working on it, and it's a big fat heavy pig. If you had one, I think you'd agree.

Speaking of weight, I wonder if there is a way to tell the weight of an engine via the increase in ride height of the front end of the car. I ask because I was comparing my friends SR swapped S14 to my CA swapped S14 and the front of my car sits WAY higher than his. His sits a little higher than it did with the KA, but nothing like mine is sitting.

[CakeEater]

^ I didn't think there was much of difference in weight until I had to put a stock suspension back on to get it onto a transport truck. I couldn't believe the difference in the front.

It was as if there wasn't an engine in the car. haha It sat so high that it had massive positive camber.

[PyR0NiAk]

Another forum claims that the SR weighs approximately 100 pounds less than a KA and the CA weighs approximately 40 pounds less than the SR. Considering how far back these motors sit, I don't think it's THAT big of a deal, although, it would definitely make some changes in handling over the KA.

EDIT: 1234 posts

[fess13]

I've heard some slandering about the CA recently, people saying "you're choosing the road less traveled to be unique and cool while avoiding the 'popular' choice that's actually smarter and more reasonable route to take"i know engine choices have nothing to do with popularity but the JDM scene is gigantic and hawaii and every other 240 i see at meets has an SR. I just don't think I could love something that everyone else has. . . i mean the point of customizing your car is to make it YOUR's, different than everyone else's . . . right?

[CakeEater]

Another forum claims that the SR weighs approximately 100 pounds less than a KA and the CA weighs approximately 40 pounds less than the SR. Considering how far back these motors sit, I don't think it's THAT big of a deal, although, it would definitely make some changes in handling over the KA.

EDIT: 1234 posts

I remember the CA weighing around 60lbs less than the SR. Maybe I'm off.

All I know is that it was very noticeable in the suspension.

Say it is 150 less than the KA...go pick up 150lbs and tell me you wouldn't notice that extra weight in the car?

[PyR0NiAk]

When I was saying "not that big of a deal" I was talking about CA vs SR weight.

fess13, saying that you can't enjoy what everyone else has would be like saying you wouldn't be happy with a camaro with a 350 or a big block, so instead you want to build a 305 or a V6.

300whp from a CA is the same as 300whp from a SR is the same as 300whp from a KA. The only difference being torque and weight from each engine, where the CA will win the weight fight, and the KA will win the torque fight.

[sjbsuperman1425]

When I was saying "not that big of a deal" I was talking about CA vs SR weight.

fess13, saying that you can't enjoy what everyone else has would be like saying you wouldn't be happy with a camaro with a 350 or a big block, so instead you want to build a 305 or a V6.

300whp from a CA is the same as 300whp from a SR is the same as 300whp from a KA. The only difference being torque and weight from each engine, where the CA will win the weight fight, and the KA will win the torque fight.

40lbs less and the overall weight being shifter farther back (IIRC), i dont think thats something to just shrug off. weight is weight, usually the less, the better. probably a reason you dont see fat guys in Nascar or Formula 1

[PyR0NiAk]

My SR is nearly touching my firewall. I seriously can't even fit my fist between there, so all you have there is the 40 pounds. Is your car stripped? Do you have anything more seats than the driver's? Do you still have all of your windows? If your answer is yes to any but the first, then, you obviously don't care too much about an extra 40 pounds.

[r34 gtr]

I dropped a ton of weight over my factory setup with the KA-E, as I am not running any AC components, PS, intake manifold braces, etc. and I got rid of all that factory wiring and the crap on the intake manifold itself. That block of iron that the power steering pump bracket bolts to weighs a ton! I seriously think it was something like 30lbs.

In all, I think simplifying the thing has saved me some 75-100lbs in addition to the weight savings of the CA18 over the KA24.

Even with a 2" drop and 17in wheels, my wheel gap is hilarious in the front. None in the back, and I can get my foot in the front. Awesome.

That's another thing they don't make; CA-specific springs are completely non-existent. Any springs you buy these days will sit the front end up too high, so if you want it to look proper you need to buy coilovers. Just one way in which the CA hooks its teeth into your pocket book. It has many, oh yes.

My initial investment into my CA18 project was small, but since then it has been a dark road of financial ruin. It cannot be helped though!

[PyR0NiAk]

Yep pulled my ac too.. PS is going back on though.

[sjbsuperman1425]

My SR is nearly touching my firewall. I seriously can't even fit my fist between there, so all you have there is the 40 pounds. Is your car stripped? Do you have anything more seats than the driver's? Do you still have all of your windows? If your answer is yes to any but the first, then, you obviously don't care too much about an extra 40 pounds.

im not in Nascar or Formula 1 so im good

like so many have said before, its not even about whats the better engine or this or that, its about what you like. i got a 240 because NOBODY where i live had one. I got a CA because i was broke and the people i did know with 240's had SR's, and guess what they all know who I am lol

im very glad i got the CA over the SR. with an SR turbo, they are basically equal anyway. If a difference is a turbo i can pick up for $200, then so be it. i'll take iron block over aluminum block, iron sleeves anyday

[PyR0NiAk]

to each his own,.. I do find it amusing that you didn't comment on your quote I posted...

[ragenasian]

to each his own

Exactly, so why are you still here.

You are probably a good example of why he doesn't want an SR.

[r34 gtr]

There is this broad in the other room that has the most painful annoying nasally voice. Ugh. She is loud, and talking about crack rocks or some s***.

I was going to make some kind of relative comment, but her voice is like bleach for my cognitive faculties.

"It was my drug dealer at the time's girlfriend.... he promised to pay me back" WTF who cares?!

[PyR0NiAk]

Exactly, so why are you still here.

You are probably a good example of why he doesn't want an SR.

The "to each his own" comment was toward the aluminum vs iron statement. I don't think anyone asked you. Did you read the entire thread, or just skim and decide to try and start flaming? I came into the thread originally so that the op could get opinions from more than just 1 side.

[float_6969]

The reason that I asked is because I have always questioned the SR is only 40# more than the CA. I honestly think the difference is more than that. Also, I can EASILY fit my fist behind the head of the CA and the firewall, and the front of the motor STILL sets COMPLETELY behind the anti-sway bar. And I'm including the crank pulley. I've honestly considered getting an S12 transmission because they're shorter and building custom mounts to move the motor back even further. I think it might be possible to get the motor into a "mid-ship" setup doing that.

I've also picked up a bare SR block and a bare CA block, and the CA block is noticeably lighter.(light enough to easily pick up with one hand) So is the crankshaft. The heads seemed to weigh about the same, although you would think the CA head would weigh more with the bucket lifters, but I think it's so much smaller it makes up for it. The cam chain setup is another thing that adds some weight that the CA doesn't have. I have NOTHING to back this up with, but I think the weight difference is more along the lines of 50-75lbs between the SR and the CA. If I'm right, and you combine that with the fact that the CA is MUCH more compact and sits MUCH further back than even the SR, it would explain the increase in front ride height (I had positive camber when I first swapped my CA into my S13 too) and the VERY noticeable change in handling. My car rarely under-steered after I swapped the CA in, where it would do it at every turn with the KA.

I was going to buy a scale to weigh my motor when I had it out, but they were all too expensive for something that I was just going to use once.

[PyR0NiAk]

I have no way to back up the numbers I gave. I just picked them up from another forum. Most SR's don't sit AS far back as mine does. Mine comes from using the RB mounts...

I'm sure I'll be pulling my motor again at some point in the future. If I do, I'll be sure to weigh it seeing as how I have full access to some 10k scales..

Edit: Since my brother will have a dohc ka and a ca laying around this summer, I'll try to make sure he weighs them, as well.