I'd pick this Hyundai over this BMW.

[Jesda]

http://jalopnik.com/5982264/congratulat ... ld-hyundai

Seriously, I would. Anyone who has driven that year of Elantra knows they're fun to beat on, tough as nails (with a manual), and have enough room to gobble up a living room.

The Hyundai is also better looking, coming across as a Euro-chic Saab/Citroen/Opel-inspired sporty hatchbacky thing. It's unabashedly functional and there's nothing wrong with that.

The 3-series GT, on the other hand, is pretending to have the sleekness of a low-slung sedan with the hauling capability of a hatch but it doesn't have the wheelbase to pull it off the way the elegant Audi A7 and Aston-Martin Rapide do. The BMW is confused about its identity and looks as if it's trying too hard to be all things to all people.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I honestly really fond of the styling of that generation Elantra. It's pretty sharp-looking, in a subtle non-selfconscious way. The hatch looks particularly nice. I know several people who own them and love them. I tried to talk my sister into getting one, actually.

[gwoods]

I like the current year Kia version better but still awesome car... the problem is optioned out your in the $35-$37k range and you can get a low miles current year used G37 Sedan for the same money that is better in every measurable way. I understand why Hyundai/Kia are pricing it this way and its smart but to me these brands will always be a discount Toyota/Honda.

[hannibal]

^ Theres no such thing as a $35k Kia. And wait a few years til Hyundai/Kia pass Toyota/Honda in reliability/quality.

That 3 GT is hideous. What ever happened to the wagon??

[PapaSmurf2k3]

My aunt has a Hyundai Elantra of that exact body style. I'll have to drive it. I can't remember if she got the stick or auto. She used to drive a Mazda 6 stick, but I'm not sure if her new husband f*** up her fun bone or not.

[gwoods]

^ Theres no such thing as a $35k Kia.

I agree with you Kia not so much

[Ace2cool]

Heh, Kia and Hyundai dealerships here are doing a "two for one" deal right now. You buy a Kia or Hyundai, and get a year lease on another completely free.

[Jesda]

A fully decked out Optima turbo is one heck of a nice car, but for that kind of money I'd go for a Chrysler 300 or 15 used Miatas.

[NolimitZ32]

15 used miatas, oh what I could do with 15 used miatas.

[gwoods]

It is a nice car, but thats my point 35 grand gets you a whole buncha other cars that are not Kia's. there is a brown one running aroung Phoenix that has had all the Kia badges replaced with Lexus badges. It kills me because for what he paid for that Optima the owner could have had a Lexus?

For 35k you could have a 97-2002 Porsche Boxster or 1998-2000 M Roadster and a used low miles 2007/2008 G35 sedan?

[NolimitZ32]

For 35k you could have a Z06

[hannibal]

That is fvcking ridiculous! No way in hell. How can the Optima be priced over the Sonata and nearly as much as a loaded Azera? I dont even think a fully loaded Camry costs $35 grand.

[gwoods]

They can, the dealership I picked online didn't have any with an MSRP quite that high.

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

15 used miatas, oh what I could do with 15 used miatas.

Circle track demolition derby? Would be the cutest instance of vehicular destruction ever recorded.

[nissangirl74]

For 35k you could have a Z06

I like the way you think.

For 35K, we could put RBs in all the Datsuns... I WIN!

[AZhitman]

That is fvcking ridiculous! No way in hell. How can the Optima be priced over the Sonata and nearly as much as a loaded Azera?

Um, the Optima is their flagship. It's a bigger / nicer car than the Sonata and Azera (IIRC).

I absolutely LOVE the new Optima. The Sonata is way too "fluid" for me, but I really like the Forte hatch.

The Optima Wagon (search it) concept is GORGEOUS in my opinion.

I'm also pretty fond of the small Kia crossover (the newest one).

[Jesda]

That is fvcking ridiculous! No way in hell. How can the Optima be priced over the Sonata and nearly as much as a loaded Azera? I dont even think a fully loaded Camry costs $35 grand.

Better looking, nicer interior, and genuinely good fun to drive. If I was in the market for a brand new front-drive midsizer, the Optima would be my top pick. Since 2012 they fitted them with more supportive seats and grippier tires, responding directly to customer feedback within months.

Also, I think real-world transaction prices are a few grand less. Manufacturers tend to inflate MSRPs and then pile on incentives to make the customer feel like they got more of a bargain.

[AZhitman]

It's definitely on our short list of future purchases... likely the hybrid.

Others include the Focus hatch, or the Fusion (if they get the FE up).

[AZhitman]

Fully-loaded Camry XLE is $36K... and it's still a Camry. I'd rather have the Optima.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Lesson to take away from this thread:
Midsize FWD car pricing is retarded. Go buy a real car instead.

[gwoods]

In the Arizona Republic this sunday, top Kia Optima was discounted to $27k, Hybrid Optima down to $18k

[zacmil]

That is fvcking ridiculous! No way in hell. How can the Optima be priced over the Sonata and nearly as much as a loaded Azera?

Um, the Optima is their flagship. It's a bigger / nicer car than the Sonata and Azera (IIRC).

I'm actually pretty sure that the Optima and the Sonata are the same car. My mom just bought an Optima, and, in the end, she had narrowed it down between the two. As far as I could tell, the only difference between them were a few bells and whistles. The Azera is definitely positioned above both.

Unless I'm mistaken, the Sonata/Optima compare to the Camry, the Azera compares to the Avalon.

I absolutely LOVE the new Optima. The Sonata is way too "fluid" for me.

I couldn't agree with this any more.

[MinisterofDOOM]

When it came out, the Azera was sort of supposed to be the new "flagship" for Hyundai, and was definitely positioned above the Optima. It was really just a renaming for the new-generation XG350 which was the twin of the Amanti, which itself was Kia's (extremely ugly) top-dog. I say "was" because the Azera has not been updated in a while, and it shows. A new Azera would be slotted above the Sonata and Optima. But I'm not sure if we'll even see a 2nd gen Azera considering that with the Genesis now in production it would be a little redundant.

EDIT:
Google says there's a new generation Azera already. It's related to the Sonata/Optima but is larger, more upscale and offers the V6 option the other two cars so sorely lack.

Compare a 2007 Optima with a 2007 Azera and there's a VAST gulf between the two. The Optima was a decent budgetmobile, but it was no Accord-fighter. That was Azera's territory.

[AZhitman]

I'm actually pretty sure that the Optima and the Sonata are the same car.

They may very well be (underneath), but they clearly don't share ANY exterior parts or panels. They look nothing alike.

[Jesda]

The previous Optima was one of the most characterless cars I've ever driven. The change from 2010 to 2011 was dramatic.

[zacmil]

I'm actually pretty sure that the Optima and the Sonata are the same car.

They may very well be (underneath), but they clearly don't share ANY exterior parts or panels. They look nothing alike.

Oh yeah, that's what I meant. In my opinion, the Optima has a nicer interior too. The Sonata was nice enough, I guess, but there was just too much open space for my taste. In the Optima, the center console is angled toward the driver, and it seems like the armrest is in a little bit better position. The whole thing sort of envelops you, and all the important dials and controls are right within arm's reach. It really is a fantastic car.

[MinisterofDOOM]

The previous Optima was one of the most characterless cars I've ever driven. The change from 2010 to 2011 was dramatic.

They're also pretty tiny. My cousin has one, and I'm always shocked at how small it is.

[AZhitman]

Oh yeah, that's what I meant. In my opinion, the Optima has a nicer interior too. The Sonata was nice enough, I guess, but there was just too much open space for my taste. In the Optima, the center console is angled toward the driver, and it seems like the armrest is in a little bit better position. The whole thing sort of envelops you, and all the important dials and controls are right within arm's reach. It really is a fantastic car.

Now I want to go shopping.

[gwoods]

Do it! Jan/Feb is a great time to buy last years car for cheap. We just bought a 2012 4x4 Limited Toyota Sequoia with 73 test drive miles on it for 10k off the sticker, got what we wanted for our old Sequoia and named our interest rate. The dealer claimed they bought down our interest rate, duno if its true but I know I didn't kick in any cash to make the deal.

[hannibal]

I thought Hyundai had positioned Kia as their "budget" brand. So Hyundai gets upscale models like the Genesis and Equus, and Kia gets twins of the smaller Hyundais. Thats why I was surprised that the Optima would be more expensive than its Hyundai twin, the Sonata.

I think the Azera is just a bigger, roomier Sonata and is made to compete with cars like the Avalon.