I am building an all motor KA and am looking for ideas

[neverlift]

well as said you will probably fall short on your hp number.... crank...

as for being the under dog, thats fine by me but dont get mad when a 400 dollar turbo build on 10 psi dawgs you out.

a main note IMHO its not that we flame a person for wanting N/A ka power hell I would get a vasectomy for a 240whp ka(n/a on pump gas ,that is streetable),but we have seen TOO many fail with great builds and lots of money spent(WASTED) on it when a cheap egay turbo kit would have yeilded better results. Its just a thing nico does... stop others from making our mistakes. I'll be de soon and wont even bother with non boost stuff(beside what is already at hand) cause I already know I wont be happy with a n/a ka power level,without dropping 3~5 grand on it. When I could easily peice together a NICE turbo kit for under 1500....

a crank will help you achieve you goal as has been pointed out its ONE of the big issues a ka has.

[dickie]

being the underdog is overrated. as someone said before, it can be fun to race where you REALLY have to depend on your skills as a driver because your car is relatively underpowered, BUT understand that in autocross and road racing etc... your modifications list will probably bump you into a class where you will have absolutely no competitive abilities.

if youre autox-ing, why not leave the motor stock and spend some time brushing up on your skills instead? it costs far less and is so much more effective.

i would hate to see you spend the money on stuff that would actually make your car less competitive, but i havent had anything to do with autox since i had my integra. something to consider.

[neverlift]

from my understanding a stock ka in that class whatever the f*** it is,is a competitive little bastard. But just as you said d!ck all the mods the OP is going for he will be into another class = uber underdog.

[Shift_Kouki]

Yeah, that is certainly what I have seen from the one example I have seen from a DOHC KA in a dedicated track car.

The underdog engine starts to hurt a lot more when other cars get more power for smaller mod penalties. Granted, you just about have to do something to get the motor to pull harder longer for track work. Or at least that was my first hand impression running a stock KA in HPDE. (the straights were rather humbling)

[neverlift]

once I swap to de I may dyno 3psi of boost just to see/show how much more effective boost is for the ka...

[240sxRAOR]

Actualy it looks as though it will be a awhile before I can do the build but I'm peiceing it togather. Right now the car is stock minus the air filter. I am planning to do local autocross and if the airfilter puts me in a different class then I'll change it. BTW this is not the only 240sx I own and the other will have FI. But being that this 240sx is the pignose which is the lightest 240sx, I have desided to build it for use on the circuit as my first track car. In autox 0-60 time is what matters when it comes to power and the suspenion is the part that is most important. Even if I get bumped into the modified class I think I'll do just as good as any turbo 240sx. After the track in millville, NJ gets finished being built. I plan to race there and I think having a 240sx that isn't crazy fast would be good since I will have to be a better racer or lose. I think what I can learn from an NA 240sx is more valuable than what it costs me to make one. Remeber in circuit its not the fastest car that wins its the fastest time.

[dickie]

wow.

[neverlift]

wow.

no ****ing **** wow dude just dont even try building it. then your kinda not making sense,your gonna boost one for d/d but your gonna build a slow a$$ n/a for the track

seriously put any cash into the suspension ovr performance for the autox car if you plan to stay n/a! play with cam timing to get the powerband where you need it and go from there with mods. I still dont think a build n/a ka will be better then a boosted one(in the same class), cause IIRC orion made 328wtq ka~t semi built IIRC,which NO built dohc n/a ka will make(as of now).

[240sxRAOR]

If I can get mine close enough to this guy's, I would be happy with it and from the look of it he looks like he has room for improvement on his car. Those rims definetly aren't going to make him go faster.http://youtube.com/watch?v=AEmlmJXFEos

[Bigvinnie]

If I can get mine close enough to this guy's, I would be happy with it and from the look of it he looks like he has room for improvement on his car. Those rims definetly aren't going to make him go faster.http://youtube.com/watch?v=AEmlmJXFEos

Steve runs NOS on his setup.

[240sxRAOR]

is it high compression and nitrous or just nitrous

[booboo]

you have to love the nitrous

[Brandon93240]

Like I said this guy's a dreamer, nothing wrong with big dreams, just next time search and read up on something before you make another pointless thread. Boost and Juice ftmfw.

[240sxRAOR]

WTF dude, I made this thread to ask people who have experience with NA KA if my set up looked like it was good and if it needed anything. I have searched for topics on NA ka and I found and read a bunch this was the first time I read about a fully counterweighted crankshaft. Man I wish I was dreaming then I'd have loads of cash and plenty of prodjects. I plan to have 4 240sx's eventualy and each one will be a different body style. I will have something different done to each of them. I wonder why turbo people even read the KA forum. Alot of the best ideas are the ones that people said would not work. Now if anyone has anything relevant to say on what they would recomend for an NA KA, otherwise **** of.

[dickie]

so are you planning on dropping the $5-10k to reach your power goals? have you looked into contacting deviouska yet?

keep us updated as you will definitely be the first to reach these goals on a street-ready dohc ka motor out of the hundreds or so who attempt it.

[Ajax]

So in this thread I've been called a looser (whatever that is) and been listed as someone with info on this subject. That's kinda funny.Seriously, as long as there are no clearance issues (which I don't believe there would be) Brian Crower cams kick serious butt. My car feels much better, and hopefully I will have some dynos up by the end of this month.Still a few more things to tweak after that though.

[dickie]

who called you a loser? looser? like loose like a wizard's sleeve?

[neverlift]

lol d!ck

you cant want us to walk you through what will work. We have walk a MNAY through and they have FAILED. Then you want to be secretive about certain parts that may/may not be the friggin missing link. We just dont want anyone to get analhurt when they blow a load on N/A and come bitching on here... BEST OF LUCK

[240sxRAOR]

I'm not expecting to be walked though, I have done alot of research its just that before I go and dump 5-10k$ as said above I want to make sure I don't over look something, which I did. Ajax, are you using the BC cams with high compression? I was wondering if there are clearance issues. I could tell you my idea but then the doubters will realy get on me cause it sounds dumb at first. I'm sure you all have heard of the elctric supercharger, well from what I here the only one worth buying is the e-ram. Normaly I wouldn't touch that stuff. But one of my teachers told me about a turbo called a suction turbo and they are put on chevy corvairs. Instead of blowing into the intake it pulls next to the intake and lets the engine flow alot more but its not boost. He said if it were boost it would be about 2 lbs. Its not actualy forcing air into the cylinders it just making the best possible flow of air. Normaly this kit maybe could get you 40 hp on a corvair. I was thinking of taking an eram which has 1.7 lbs boost and is supposed to get you 20-30 hp more but thats on normal compression. I plan to run it on around 11:1 compression so I would expect 40-50 more hp and if tunned properly and with enough cooling I might be able to get it to work on 93. This is all theory and if it don't work then I just have a regular NA KA. So thats why ITBS won't work.

[dickie]

...but itb's would work, you'd just have to fab a plenum to go around them. whoever told you you couldnt use them was dead wrong.

honestly if you can hook up your idea and prove that it gains efficient, practical power, i dont see why anyone would be ragging on you for it.

if the system works as you say it does i would love to see it in action. how long do you think it will take to build the damn thing and get some concrete results?

[Ajax]

who called you a loser? looser? like loose like a wizard's sleeve?

Philsnotfalling from the first page. I don't pay much attention since the word wasn't spelled correctly- I just thought it was funny.

I'm running the stage 2 cams. I'm not exactly sure what my CR is as the pistons are supposedly custom by Ross (long story that ultimately I'll only know what's in the engine if I take it apart in order to sue the mechanic- I'll dyno before I do that). What I've been told is that my block was bored .05 over, and my measured compression is in the mid stock range (170 or so- haven't checked in a while). Been running the new cams since January and have had no major issues, other than burning a lot more gas (mpg dropped by at least 2, but may be back up with the JWT ECU).

[Brandon93240]

I think he meant to say it in the Polly Shore them of saying loser, u know like lahoooser, or something of that sort. I think most people who flame do it just to get **** started, I know I do. Its fun picking on people, thats what makes us americans right? Besides this is an open forum, you shouldn't be taking things people say to seriously when they play around. If you'd like to talk to a great engine builder who has done alot of N/A ka work he owns a shop in Spring Texas, its called Griggs Racing, he builds them mostly for rally trucks, he hard welds the cumb. chamber and reshapes them, he also can get custom grinds from Schnieder cams. U better have some deep pockets though, his machine work usually runs about 5k for an all motor 4 cyl. He has one nasty Xterra.

[Ajax]

Polly Shore!? That's funny.

[240sxRAOR]

Now I found that I'm going to have to spend 3g instead of 2g its not going to happen this month like planned. I am only working partime but I think I'll take out a small loan. I'm trying to tell you I like ITB's I just can't have an E-ram and ITBs on the same engine. So I just am going to weld my intake runners short. If I get the loan I'll have the full bottom end built and the eram. It be very basic but it can be a good enough experiment. So I'd say in a month or two if all goes as planned. I'll probably buy the Eram first and do a baseline dyno. It so happens my school has a dyno that we can use for $20 but you have to go on a waiting list.

[neverlift]

I would strongly urge you not to take out a loan for this build! You would be better off saving up the cash that way IF it blows up in your face its just your face and not your ***.

with that said do what you please its your life, I also want to call bs on your eram setup,go to the marine hardware store and get an evacuation pump/bilge pump and save your money over the eram... btw if your 11:1 you may be out flowing the "super charger".

again you have been warned

[dickie]

im done with this thread.

[Brandon93240]

This is why I flamed from the getgo.

[240sxRAOR]

Well I found out what I needed to know so I don't mind ending this thread. You brought up something about the engine outflowing the eram, if the company is right and the eram flows 1600 cfm what is the KA's cfm? I looked for what 4 cylinder engines cfm is and the most they flow is around 270 cfm at 8000rmps. Even a high compression motor wouldn't flow double that. I know some people use the bilge pumps but do the produce that much cfm, plus they look nasty. I'd like to take a $2,000 loan so I can do the engine work soon but like I said before I waste that much money I want to make sure I haven't forgot or neglected anything. I'm done with this thread too and if it realy is a waste then they can delete it.

[sicairos_2007]

its not pointless becuase if you think about it an all motor 250 hp engine will beat a 250 hp turbo engine becuase you dont have to wait fot that turbo to spool up to get that power.

[motohead185]

a NA KA might be expensive to do, but you know when your in to cars and working on cars is something you love to do why not spend the money. i have been doing my research and have seen how much a full NA build will cost and compared to a FI build there almost the same.

Ex:honda civic w/ NA motor with about 280whp w/ a 11.5:1 compression ratio and weighing around 2200lbs w/ driver and being able to rev to 8.5 or 9k rpms is pretty dam amazing with a little under 6k invested .

i know that 280whp power isnt alot but when you can put all of it to the ground and your going through 15mph to 25 mph corners at 45 to 60 mph thats garunteed poop in pants for the passanger.

oh and if you want to get some more hp and torque out of your ka try taking some secerts form the domestic crowd.

tips:knife edge crank less rotational mass higher rpmsje pistons good to 11:1 compressionferra valve train best money can buystage 3 head workstage 3 crower cams good for 1500 to 7000+bored block to fit pistonsheaders of choice

and if you can make lots of HP next best thing to "Waste" money on is making your car as light as possibleso bro if you need some good info or want some parts found send me an email and i will help you out.because someone has to put those dam turbo pumpers in there place.