how to make my ka24de faster for cheap!!!

[nos_nissan]

ok i have the standered ka24de out of a 96 240 with aem cold air pace setter header Custom 2 1/2" exaust 40mm plugwires and the timing advanced 30" but my car seems to still be slow wat should i do next i have plans to add Nitrous but theat won't be for a wile and what about a msd ignition box all of your help will be Appreciated thanks.

[bone_stock_240]

Try not to do it cheap. It won't last too long. It won't be cheap when you have to rebuild your motor or replace it. Save up some money, and do a basic turbo set up and a good tune.

[Charlie240sxt]

You HAVE to pay to play man. I'm over/around what I payed for the car in mods and its still slow but my susp. and brakes are pretty much done and just a few more parts till she's in the 300whp club

[adrianfromthecastle]

get smaller tires/ wheels... it'll throw your speedo off and make it seem as if your going faster when your really not.

[Bigvinnie]

UUUHHH noticed you said that you have the timing advanced to 30BTDC. You need an SAFC for under $150 to control that A/F ratio of yours. Right now your engine is probably running a little leaner since the fuel is evaporating faster at advancement. This means that your cylinder charge is hotter than normal and you should cool it off with a little added fuel.Look at OBD1 cams 240/248 combination those cams make good gains in the OBD2 engine.
Modified by Bigvinnie at 11:28 AM 5/25/2007

[neverlift]

glad someone said something to this kid about his 30* timing on stock tune/fueling...

[Bigvinnie]

glad someone said something to this kid about his 30* timing on stock tune/fueling...

I have my timing upto 31BTDC. I have added +2~+4% fuel through the rev range. It sucks if you don't tune right when advancing the timing, it's possible to warp valves, burn through the piston, or even bend a rod.... NO fun IMO.Always good to use a wide band too....

[Shift_Kouki]

OK, I am going to newb out a bit here... SAFC, I hear that all the time... Does it stand for Stand Alone Fuel Computer? or something similar?

[Bigvinnie]

[QUOTE=Shift_Kouki]OK, I am going to newb out a bit here... SAFC, I hear that all the time... Does it stand for Stand Alone Fuel Computer? or something similar?[/QUOTE

No even more ridiculous than that. It stands for SUPER AIR FUEL CONVERTER LOL. Isn't it funny a easy terminology used for us common folk...

[LayNLow240]

No even more ridiculous than that. It stands for SUPER AIR FUEL CONVERTER LOL. Isn't it funny a easy terminology used for us common folk...

C is controller, not converter. it doesnt convert anything, it controls your air/fuel.

[Shift_Kouki]

No even more ridiculous than that. It stands for SUPER AIR FUEL CONVERTER LOL. Isn't it funny a easy terminology used for us common folk...

OK I dont feel so bad now... I would never have guessed it was such a lame accronym. Too bad it looks like my potential need for one has vanished.

Oh well, my hopes for my own KA become more dim by the day it seems... I find it hard to belive someone who built an open cockpit byplane in college wont let his son put high comp pistons into thier car.

[Shift_Kouki]

Also... to the OP. You want to make more power cheaply... But have not opened up the motor at all for anything?

No wonder power still sucks. Bolt ons can only free up so much out of a tired motor.

[neverlift]

an interfooler

[boznuttz]

Lol, there is no choice when tuning with an SAFC. You NEED a wideband as well, or else it's pretty much pointless.

You wouldn't want a doctor to perform surgery on you if he was blindfolded....would you? Sure it might be fun, but only if body parts were labeled with braille lettering. I would settle for scratch 'n sniff too.

[Bigvinnie]

Lol, there is no choice when tuning with an SAFC. You NEED a wideband as well, or else it's pretty much pointless.

You wouldn't want a doctor to perform surgery on you if he was blindfolded....would you? Sure it might be fun, but only if body parts were labeled with braille lettering. I would settle for scratch 'n sniff too.

LOL that is pretty funny, but true.... One with the other has to be used to function it correctly. I know that used widebands are dirt cheap on craigslist these days accept for LM1's. For Natural Aspiration you don't need a $400 wideband, I think turbo charging is a bit more critical when it comes to using expensive wide bands.SAFC's and VAFC's are dyno proven though. My friends Prelude was just dynoed about a month ago. He emailed the results before and after VAFC tune. This was on a H22 Prelude. results aren't bad, but these engines don't make any good torque...

[neverlift]

I love my plx smafr and summit narrow band gauge. I dont think any fuel tuning should be done without some form of wideband afr monitor.

even if its just an afc. its not safe/smart I can just see it now you guys said the ka runs rich stock blah....

IMHO forget the cheapo one from INNOHATIVE it uses retarded style of processing that fails to be HIGHLY accurate or durable as even the 194 smafr and with optional gauge for IIRC 249(but on back order), oh shiz the word fail used for actual use.

lol nice dyno. is that why even the sohc gets respect from preludes? ssssssssssssslllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllloooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwww go shift sssssssssssssssslllllllllllllllllooooooooooowwwwwwwww go shift please dont let your friend get mad I just never understood why honda would make a car(all cars except a few) will no REAL power till close to redline. I get economy but the need to rev past 7 grand to get up to cruise speeds. sorry ITS MY .02 but 160hp is decent what all mods? I know I know thread


Modified by neverlift at 5:14 PM 5/9/2007

[Bigvinnie]

even if its just an afc. its not safe/smart I can just see it now you guys said the ka runs rich stock blah....

It does run rich in stock trim to keep NOX emissions low, under a low RPM LOAD. For the stock timing it can be between 12.9:1~13.3:1 in stock trim and stock timing at lower RPMS. Now for timing advancement not being to aggressive on a stock stroker that is pretty rich.As you increase ignition timing you increase cylinder temperature and change A/Fr's. If stock timing is 20 for load requirements, and then you advance timing to 30 to get off the line and still handle LOAD, thats a 10 degree difference that will heat the cylinder early at lower RPM's.

(AS AN EXAMPLE FOR EASY COMPREHENSION)12.7:1 would seem pretty rich, but it is need to cool the cylinder charge at an advance timing of 30+ BTDC, where as a 20BTDC timing should be a little leaner up to a 13.7:1 since the cylinder charge from the timing isn't as hot as it would be at 30BTDC. Although 13.7.1 seems almost to close to stoich it is still mild for the timing at 20BTDC and makes more power than it would at stock A/Fr's, where as the ratio has to be richer for more aggressive timing... It's basically the changes made to the flame front and load, what is more harmfull to the engine and it's requirements before it becomes dangerous for making HP.


Modified by Bigvinnie at 5:27 PM 5/9/2007

[Shift_Kouki]

In another KA thread you mentioned the following:

Now just imagine if they removed the SCV's from the OBD1 manifold that would be about 6~7 more HP. Also EGR block off is about another 6HP.... Easy DIY self mods

Could you explain these further? I belive they constitute some small, but inexpensive mods for KA power.

I belive I understand how EGR works, as well as why blocking it off would help things... But in particular could you elaborate on the SCV romoval?

[neverlift]

try to breath while someone chokes you. it will all start making sesnse... restriction is restriction be it in the intake pipe or in the individual runners.

they serve for MORE low end powa, but even on my sohc I could not tell with removal of them,in the low end, up top it helped out more then I had thought,but coupled with the removal of coolant lines may have aided those gains. lets be real tho ka make plenty low end without them.

[Bigvinnie]

In another KA thread you mentioned the following:

Could you explain these further? I belive they constitute some small, but inexpensive mods for KA power.

I belive I understand how EGR works, as well as why blocking it off would help things... But in particular could you elaborate on the SCV romoval?

There isn't much difference between OBD1 engines and OBD2 engines. Accept for small differences in smog equipment, the cam durations, and of coarse SCV's.Now on OBD1 engines I believe till 1993 used a 240/248 cam duration.As mid OBD1 starting in late 93 till OBD2 till 1998 used a 232/232 duration cam. The OBD1 engines that used the 240/248 cams needed this cam duration because of airflow restriction to the SCV's. As you can see in stock trim OBD1 and OBD2 make the same HP and the OBD1 has more restrictive parts, making it anemic.Removing the scv's from the OBD1 is an instantaneous power adder, where as for OBD2 engines in order to achieve the same power output would need to install the 240/248 duration cam combination to make the same power output that the OBD1 engines can by simply removing the butterfly's (SCV's). There are overall small differences between OBD1 and OBD2 as far as the fuel and ignition maps are concerned, probably making the OBD1 engine more of the overall achiever after the scv's are removed. The differences between the 2 would be minuscule. One problem the OBD2 engines have is the overall horrendous restriction of having the catylitic converter butted to the exhaust mani, which of coarse can be corrected with a high flow OBD2 CAT.

[Shift_Kouki]

Thanks Vinnie, that clarified a lot for me. Being ODB2, I see things from that viewpoint. It seems I did not know what the hell the SCVs were, and what effect they had on things. It makes a bit more sense now.

One problem the OBD2 engines have is the overall horrendous restriction of having the catylitic converter butted to the exhaust mani, which of coarse can be corrected with a high flow OBD2 CAT.

Oh that will soon be fixed. If they want to fail me for a defective dash light... they can take my falsified recipt for a $waiver.ammount 'cat'. And by that I mean test Y pipe that can be un-pluged for the track that costs much less. Yeah, emissions is just a bad freaking joke. -- Sorry for the rant, I have my reasons to hate on our precious air... but lets not let the thread go off topic because of some pissed off colege kid's rant.

[Bigvinnie]

Oh that will soon be fixed. If they want to fail me for a defective dash light... they can take my falsified recipt for a $waiver.ammount 'cat'. And by that I mean test Y pipe that can be un-pluged for the track that costs much less. Yeah, emissions is just a bad freaking joke. -- Sorry for the rant, I have my reasons to hate on our precious air... but lets not let the thread go off topic because of some pissed off colege kid's rant.

You may want to heed caution when using a test pipe. OBD2's are much more accurate to there narrow band A/F ratio's using the 2, O2 sensors one before the CAT and one after the cat. This means that if the conversion of oxygen, hydrocarbons, Co, and NOX do not properly mix and take place, a code will be sent to the ecu throwing a default. This will tell the ecu to run the A/Fr's richer in content, as well as retard your base ignition timing, and throw out a code for bad catylitic converter. There really is no way to work around the situation as long as you are bound to the OBD2 ecu and it is something that I have fix for friends with OBD2 engines when installing performance OBD1 headers (DC sports, OBX, HOTSHOTS). When these header types are installed without a cat the code is sent throwing out a bad cat. What we have done is ran the first O2 sensor through the AIV port which isn't used on OBD2, added a CATCO high flow CAT which runs for under $140, and then retro fitted a bung sold through PDM racing, 2"after the CATYLITIC converter to run the second O2 sensor so that the codes wouldn't come up (this is done on the exhaust pipe of coarse). Any additional wiring that needed to be used we had ordered the proper wiring harness through Digikey.com as they have Nissan OEM harnesses available.So just a word to the wise if you use the OBD2 ecu you are bound to all smog equipment including the CAT or you lose performance , power, and fuel economy...
Modified by Bigvinnie at 8:15 AM 5/10/2007

[Bigvinnie]

C is controller, not converter. it doesnt convert anything, it controls your air/fuel.

Oh really???? Thats why I actually own the book. Don't correct me unless you know WTF you are talking about.... It's called a CONVERTER because you are converting ratio's from the throttle position, it is also just a piggy back converting voltage to manipulate the ecu, in no way are you controlling the ecu, so you are false.....

[bone_stock_240]

pwned. Never dissagree with Bigvinnie. He knows far too much.

[Shift_Kouki]

That makes me sad... and also makes me think that OBDII is a mjor PITA when the cars get older.

But what you say confuses me, where is my cat? Is it on the downpipe? Or is it that lumpy thing under the drivers seat? Because it seems like my two O2 sensors are before you get to be under the rear seat.

Previously I thought it was the object under my seat and not so close to the collector. Was I mistaken?

[Bigvinnie]

What is under the seat of your car is actually a resonator used to diffuse the sound. The cat is butted to your exhaust manifold.

[nos_nissan]

ok but the main prolblem with my car is that i cant get of the line fast i know it's because the car is an auto but i was thinking about putting a lsd diff in and a diffrent stall converter

[dickie]

LOL

[Bigvinnie]

ok but the main prolblem with my car is that i cant get of the line fast i know it's because the car is an auto but i was thinking about putting a lsd diff in and a diffrent stall converter

You ignored everything we just talked about to try and help you....SAFCWIDEBAND O2OBD1 240/248 cams (in your case you may already have those cams, you may want to check to see if your 93 has SCV's that can be removed.You can also tell what cams you have as well from determining if you have scv's)If you really want to go fast you should do some intake manifold porting and honing as I am doing....http://www.club240.com/forums/...39204

A vlsd is a nice upgrade to shave points in the 1/4mile for your launch but that is about all it does.If your car is slow, you should do the upgrades just discussed before considering a VLSD.


Modified by Bigvinnie at 3:27 PM 5/15/2007

[LayNLow240]

Oh really???? Thats why I actually own the book. Don't correct me unless you know WTF you are talking about.... It's called a CONVERTER because you are converting ratio's from the throttle position, it is also just a piggy back converting voltage to manipulate the ecu, in no way are you controlling the ecu, so you are false.....

well my bad then.