how pissed-off would the RB guys be if I put a KA in a Skyline?

[themadscientist]

I just thought it would be a funny thing to do. With everyone breaking their necks to chuck their KAs for CAs, SRs and RBs, I thought it would be hysterical to hear their screams of anguish the first time I posted a pic of KA24DET in an R32. They would probably lobby to have me banned from the RB forum I have not seriously considered it and I am not particularly enthusiastic about the KA, I just think the motor gets a bad rap and at least half of the guys that yank it do so because they think they are supposed to for whatever reason rather than a logical informed reason. I think that is pretty stupid. I can find SOHC KAs in FWD Nissans in Japan, is that a solid KA?

[Florida240sx]

Kinda like the link I had..S14 had complete skyline conversion but still has ka in.Looks like real skyline got tails and awesome body work.

[themadscientist]

yeah but it's still a 240, so that's just bodywork, people think Skylines are some godlike things and their engines similarly sacred. I think it would be interesting to see how they like having their beloved engine supplanted by another. I am reasonably confident that it would be the only car like it in the world and Mad likes the sound of that. I wouldn't want more than 300hp or so, I live in the real world where bills come every month.

[Import_Ant]

. I think that is pretty stupid. I can find SOHC KAs in FWD Nissans in Japan, is that a solid KA?

I think, much like their SR20 and CA18 brethren, the FWD and RWD KA motors have different mounting points (not sure if the RWD transmission will bolt up to it either) I recognize you'll be having to fabricate the mounts anyhow but I'd suggest looking further to see if you can get a RWD transmission to mount up, unless you REALLY wanted to piss some people off and make a FWD R32...



(if you do want to go w/ RWD though I am not sure if there are any vehicles that run RWD KA motors in japan, if not you can use the SR20 or CA18 transmission by swapping out the bellhousing to the KA bellhousing as this would save you some $$ and shipping costs if you had to get one from the states. I'm sure you were aware of that but it's just one more thing I thought of while typing out this overly-drawn out post.)

sounds like an awesome project though, good luck!

[Bronze MFP]

I think it would be awesome to see a ka powered skyline. If you have the means, please do it

We talking a stock KA or would you eventually make it a KA-T?

[Florida240sx]

Say you should get an old inline 6 from the Z's and turbo it...

[sean8564]

Mad ill trade you a ka for your RB20

[themadscientist]

Again, highly theoretical. Even if I decided to proceed the KA is not the motor for the longterm. I have had good sucess with strange swaps, my Silvia had an L28 and an FJ20 in it at various stages. I will have to do some research and feild work when I get back home but here are some points I am already concerned about.

Bellhousing length. If the front part of the KA transmission is the same length as the RB then it is just a matter of switching the bellhousings out.

Motormount locations. If all I can find are FWD engines I think the project is dead in the water. I don't want to put serious money and time into custom fabricating mounts just for a goof.

Motormount locations, again. If the FWD is the same as the RWD or I can get a RWD engine does the KA crossmember have the same motormount points as the SR and CA Silvias. If it does the Skyline will accept the Silvia crossmember and subsequently the KA engine.

What types of KAs can I get. I don't know yet, I have to look. SOHC, DOHC, are there "better" versions of each that came out in certain years?

If you guys can help me I have some questions abot the KA family.

1. are all SOHC motors essentially the same strength or are certain years better than others, if so how do I identify it?

1a. Same question for the DOHC.

2. are the FWD and RWD blocks the smae casting, i.e. the motormount points and transmission boltpatterns the same?

3. how much power can a stock SOHC withstand before it would need beefier internals (see my build plan at bottom of this post)

3a. same question for the DOHC.

4 what is the motor's weakpoints, where will it break first?

bimbo-tune KA build plan Stock KA longblock, healthiest one I can get with the most potential. You guys are going to have to school me on what to look for.

Metal head gasket (I fear no boost but I do respect it )clean the combustion chambers, possibly polish them

check the valvetrain for health but retain stock cams and valves, possibly stronger springs. You guys tell me if the KA has a problem there.

ditch factory computer and wiring. I have a Haltech E6K so I have no need of the OEM junk and all the pitfalls thereof.

fuel tuned perfectly. I will spend the money to ensure the engine has all the fuel it needs. No matter what I go with in the long-term it will need good fuel delivery so I will spare no expense in this area.

excellent cooling. I have a big aluminum radiator, huge Trust oil cooler and monstrous intercooler and again this will work with anything that sits under the hood so the KA will similarly have anything it needs.

Moderate turbo kit. I will likely go with a cast iron manifold as I am willing to sacrifice flow for longevity. I have an T04E turbo on the shelf that should work well. Please give me advice on exhuast housing sizes for the T04. It currently has an AR .48 which is what HKS put on CA and FJ kits but it seems a bit small to me for a 2.4 liter.

stock flywheel with a beefy singledisk clutch. Please tell me if the KAs came with different-sized friction surfaces on the flywheels or if they were all the same. Were they 225mm or 240mm?

Goal; streetable 300hp KA running 100-octane(I can get it out of the pump here)

I think that about covers the initial questions I couldthink of, any info would be appreciated. Oh, and let's keep this on the down-low

[themadscientist]

Say you should get an old inline 6 from the Z's and turbo it...

did that, they are awesome motors.

[sean8564]

Mad ill trade you a ka for your RB20

I am still willing to trade

[Chingon]

I've heard the ka truck blocks (specially made in mexico) are desirable for some reason among datsun fans. I know the casting is different...but what else... maybe worth it to look into it.

[themadscientist]

I am almost certain I have seen KS in the late 80's early 90's hardbody 2WD pickups. I would expect a truck engine to be the beefiest. What kind of valvetrain do the KAs have, cam-on-lifter or some kind of rocker arm? I would not expect them to like sustained high RPMs or rapid throttle changes with those big cast pistons but they must pull pretty good fom down low.

[Import_Ant]

Bellhousing length. If the front part of the KA transmission is the same length as the RB then it is just a matter of switching the bellhousings out.

I'd be happy to do some measuring for you. I'll have my motor and transmission out in the coming month or two (perhaps sooner) and I know where a KA transmission is just lying by itself that I could take pics and measurements of.

If the FWD is the same as the RWD or I can get a RWD engine does the KA crossmember have the same motormount points as the SR and CA Silvias. If it does the Skyline will accept the Silvia crossmember and subsequently the KA engine.

It does. even though it is a 240sx it is STILL an RPS13 or RMS13 chassis. there are only two motor mounts on the RWD KA blocks, one on each side 1 behind the alternator and 1 behind the AC compressor, then the transmission has a mount near the output shaft to the body. The FWD KA/CA/SR blocks have 4 mounting points from what I am aware.

What types of KAs can I get. I don't know yet, I have to look. SOHC, DOHC, are there "better" versions of each that came out in certain years?

If you guys can help me I have some questions abot the KA family.

1. are all SOHC motors essentially the same strength or are certain years better than others, if so how do I identify it?

1a. Same question for the DOHC.

early SOHC KA24E's in early to mid 89' had 8.5:1 compression, then in late 89 and through 1990 they switched to 9.2:1 comp ratio. the 92 DOHC KA24DE is rumored to have more aggressive cams but I haven't seen any info to substantiate this claim. It is my personal belief that all OBD I KA24DEs are the same.

2. are the FWD and RWD blocks the smae casting, i.e. the motormount points and transmission boltpatterns the same?

motormounts DEFINITELY aren't the same, I am unsure on the bellhousing.

3. how much power can a stock SOHC withstand before it would need beefier internals (see my build plan at bottom of this post)

3a. same question for the DOHC.

it is widely agreed that a KA block (SOHC or DOHC) hits it's limit at about 350 crank hp before the rods go out.

4 what is the motor's weakpoints, where will it break first?

rods then pistons.

bimbo-tune KA build plan

looks good to me, the only thing holding back the KA from 300 rwhp is an upgraded maf, fuel tuning, and upgraded injectors. here is where the differences in motors start to stand out.

SOHC is top feed stock and accepts DSM style injectors with minimal mods. if you go w/ DOHC motor you'll have to find some good flowing sidefeeds (a bit more expensive) or upgrade the fuel rail to accept top feed injectors. WDRacing mentioned using a fuel rail from a 4.6L mustang (any V8 4.6l ford motor) just having to adapt the mounting bracket.

hope that gets you started.

[themadscientist]

good info.

300hp is good enough to get some street cred and a few kill videos for the KA guys

MAF is not a concern as I will have the Haltech to run the engine. Fuel is no concern either, I have 444 and 550 topfeeds and I could procure S15 480 side feeds without much trouble. With the lower OEM compression the early SOHC looks like a good candidate.

[Import_Ant]

oh almost didnt respond to the turbo. yes the turbo you listed seems a bit small, I am running a T3/T4 hybrid (.48 trim and .60 or .61 on intake) it is well out of its efficency range past 5,500rpm based on compressor maps I have looked at but it feels strong and spools super fast. If you can afford the extra money I'd say go with a bit larger turbo maybe a GT30R if you've got the $$. I think this will be what I upgrade to later.

compressor map for GT30R 56 trim .60A/R

[Import_Ant]

good info.

300hp is good enough to get some street cred and a few kill videos for the KA guys

MAF is not a concern as I will have the Haltech to run the engine. Fuel is no concern either, I have 444 and 550 topfeeds and I could procure S15 480 side feeds without much trouble. With the lower OEM compression the early SOHC looks like a good candidate.

I keep thinking of small things I overlooked, the SOHC motor has a 12 valve head vs. the DOHC's 16valve. It is not required but if you want a freer revving SOHC you can replace the hydraulic lifters w/ solid lifters for 300$US after core deposit link and Fidanza does make a lightened flywheel which can be bought from enjukuracing.com among other places.

[themadscientist]

I would prefer response, not to the point of choking the engine though. It's a wastegated T04E with an A/R .48 exhuast and A/R .50 compressor, just enough to get three large and that is the goal. Who makes good cast iron manifolds for KAs?

[Import_Ant]

JGS tools does I believe. and Gladman performance. I don't know a site for Gladman though he posts alot on http://www.ka-t.org

[stealth edit] here are some links:

Rev Hard cast manifold

[/stealth edit]

[Dragon_284]

Um im not completely sure but I think you have your info backwards. I thought the 89 ka24e had the 9.2 to 1 compression ratio and the 90 ka24e had a 8.6 to 1 ratio. Also I thought that the ring lands in the ka were the only real weak point as they seem to go first. Also after having the stock rods shotpeened they are good to 500hp I believe. Also the ka24e's are side feed and the ka24de's are top feed. Now I could be wrong but I swear that is what has been said before and what I have lived by the span of my 240sx life.

Here is Gladman's site: http://www.gladmanperformance.com/

Also nixx.com sells stuff for the sohc and dohc.

The best people to talk to this about would be WD and fizz. 70% of all my KA knowledge has come from reading their posts.

Hope this helps. Good luck in your plans.

EDIT: Ok I was wrong about the injectors. Sohc is top and the Dohc is side but im pretty sure about everything else. Im sure someone will chime in to correct anything I am wrong about.
Modified by Dragon_284 at 11:25 PM 6/21/2005

[TheOne]

ka24de has sidefeeds and ka24e have top feed.pistons go before rods. 91-93 ka's have better cams that 95-98.as for cast mani's talk to structure, he has had his rev hard manifold for quite sometime allready.

[veilside180sx]

The late '88-early '89 KA24E are 9:1(not 9.2:1) and after that through all of '90 are 8.6:1. Those are the compression ratios for SOHC motors.

[veilside180sx]

Frankly I like JGS mild steel manifolds better than the cast iron ones. realnissan.com is the only one that makes one. The JGS is only $305 plus shipping and has a provision for an external wastgate.

300 rwhp is that big of a feat for a SOHC, or DOHC for that matter. You don't need solid lifters, unless you are really trying to lay down serious horsepower. The KA's don't need to rev to create power unlike some other motors.

Here's a basic setup to run for what you want...

Haltech in your case(AEM in mine)550cc(will cover you for 350 rwhp)JGS manifold(my choice for less than 600-700 rwhp)External wastegate(JGS for me)BOV(JGS for me)Intercooler(you have covered)Exhaust(whatever you want that is 3")Downpipe(make your own time)External dump(make your own time)Then the obvious things you know....oil lines, etc.

A off the shelf T3/T04E 50 trim (.63/.48) turbo at about 12-14 lbs of boost should be able to pull that 300 rwhp pretty easily with it tuned well.

[veilside180sx]

This is to use with 91 octane, don't even have to spend money on 100 octane fuel. I would run it on a healthy completely stock motor..ie...no headgasket change, etc.

I would also run the ACT street disc and heavy duty pressure plate and you pretty much are ready to rock and roll.


Modified by veilside180sx at 11:04 PM 6/21/2005

[Import_Ant]

Um im not completely sure but I think you have your info backwards. I thought the 89 ka24e had the 9.2 to 1 compression ratio and the 90 ka24e had a 8.6 to 1 ratio. Also I thought that the ring lands in the ka were the only real weak point as they seem to go first. Also after having the stock rods shotpeened they are good to 500hp I believe. Also the ka24e's are side feed and the ka24de's are top feed. Now I could be wrong but I swear that is what has been said before and what I have lived by the span of my 240sx life.

The late '88-early '89 KA24E are 9:1(not 9.2:1) and after that through all of '90 are 8.6:1. Those are the compression ratios for SOHC motors.

I stand corrected, I did have my info backwards for the comp ratio: I stand by my other claims however.

Quote »Technical InformationCompression Ratio Change for 1989-90 S13's

According to Nissan Technical Bulletin TS89-072:

KA24E ENGINE CHANGE

APPLIED MODEL: 1989 240SX (S13) from engine number KA24-012039*

SERVICE INFORMATION

To improve driveability the KA24E engine on the applied model has been changed as follows:

Compression ratio has been changed (9.1 to 8.6). Air temperature sensor has been added. E.C.U. has been changed. Idle speed. Self-diagnosis for E.G.R. ...

*Vehicles with an Air Temperature Sensor on the air cleaner box have the.modified engine.

[/quote]source

The KA's don't need to rev to create power unlike some other motors.

agreed, I just mentioned the solid lifters/lightened flywheel in response to this statment:

What kind of valvetrain do the KAs have, cam-on-lifter or some kind of rocker arm? I would not expect them to like sustained high RPMs or rapid throttle changes with those big cast pistons but they must pull pretty good fom down low.

both to answer his question about valvetrain type and advise how easy/inexpensive it would be to help the motor rev more freely.

[D Money]

sounds like a badass swap. More displacement with a shorter motor. Better weight distribution. I didnt read all the posts but theres gotta be some rwd dohc ka's in some nissan trucks suvs over there. Even though theres not alot of them there theres gotta be some. Hey even 240s were made in japan maybe they got some brand new ka's laying around the factory. lol

[SeVa-S13]

No idea on factuality but I've "heard" that there are jdm instances of RWD KA's in japan, I think in a van maybe? Are the Hardbodies non-existant there? Stock engine with a headgasket will do ya fine to 300hp with good compression. The .48 a/r turbine will choke it near redline (3000rpm? hahahaha) but shouldn't be horrible. Z32 turbos are also common on budget, low-goal KA-T's.

Better a KA than an SR.

[epokh]

Also I thought that the ring lands in the ka were the only real weak point as they seem to go first. Also after having the stock rods shotpeened they are good to 500hp I believe.[

You thought right ....the ring lands are definitely the weakest link and go long before the rods....although pushing 500 on a regular basis might be a tad much...but certainly fine for the 300 hp goal here.

[hannibal]

The JDM Nissan Caravan came with a RWD KA20DE or KA24DE. And Ive always thought JDM pickups had the KA.

Are you saving this project until you get back to Japan? How long you gonna be around here? Dave said he went down to pick up his parts the other day. Maybe we can hang out this weekend.

About those 480cc side feeds, I want a set

[veilside180sx]

ka24de has sidefeeds and ka24e have top feed.

This is actually the correct injector types for the KA motors

pistons go before rods. 91-93 ka's have better cams that 95-98.as for cast mani's talk to structure, he has had his rev hard manifold for quite sometime allready.

Just '91 have the desirable cams, and lastly the Revhard is only for the DE.

Import Ant:You are right on the power figures though, I wouldn't push the stock rods past 450 on a regular basis though. The cast pistons with perfect tuning have held 400, but I'd keep it around your 300 goal for safe keeping.

[themadscientist]

The JDM Nissan Caravan came with a RWD KA20DE or KA24DE. And Ive always thought JDM pickups had the KA.

Are you saving this project until you get back to Japan? How long you gonna be around here? Dave said he went down to pick up his parts the other day. Maybe we can hang out this weekend.

About those 480cc side feeds, I want a set

I have been pickin my brain and they do come RWD in at least two vans, the Caravan and the Serena and they are DOHC. I have seen them IRL, I just forget, senility at a young age. I have to start lookin when I get back

Well the Skyline is in Japan silly so it will have to wait. Some recent e-mails from the ex lead me to beleive I will be busy when I get back though, sounds like the turbo on her Skyline took a ****.

Yeah Dave got his stuff, nice paint job on the caravan. I have to head down to Florida this weekend but I'll be back tuesday. Hey, where do I find some ladies around here? I'm single and lonely:(