how hard is it to rebuild a ca18det?

Discuss topics related to the CA18DE and CA18DET series engines.
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ska69
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Hi everyone,

I have a ca18det that was claimed to be rebuilt at the time I purchased it, but I have lots of concerns about it (only thing I know is that it has a 88 bluebird fwd ca18de crank), and it seems to me that the only way to know what's up with the engine is to tear it down for inspection & replace internals if required.


How hard will it be for a newb in engines to strip down the ca18 & rebuild it with new internals? (besides overboring, honing and other machine shop work done by a shop?)

and with what replacement parts should I go with? :)

Any help appreciated.

Thanks!


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themadscientist
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It's an engine, it's no harder than any other. Be sure to sacrifice an aluminum soda can to it to ward off SR20 cooties.

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ska69
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so with a set of decent tools + the FSM I can rebuild it myself? :)

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themadscientist
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If you would consider yourself up to the task of a rebuild, than yes. There is nothing particularly complicated about the CA18.

blownhemi
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themadscientist wrote:If you would consider yourself up to the task of a rebuild, than yes. There is nothing particularly complicated about the CA18.
I beg to differ...
That was the exact same approach I planned to take. I was (still AM) a newbie to engines, but I had the FSM, I thought with all the instructions, illustrations, what can go wrong? And I don't know about you, but I also lacked basic mechanical know-how, like, how to get out really stuck, rusted-in screws and bolts, and endless other small tricks and tips that are not in the FSM.
Actually, an experienced mechanic friend jumped in to help right from the beginning, so I didn't end up doing it myself, but looking back at it now, even if I could've managed alone it probably would have taken three times the time. I think it is not an easy engine to start with.

I suggest if you go along with it, take pictures of the original state, vacuum lines, wires, what things are bolted to where, and such, and organize everything you take off the engine. And if you get stuck, you can always come to this forum, seems to be some really experienced and helpful folks in here.
(And as a friendly warning, when you open the engine, you will probably get to know things you would've been happier not knowing.... :) I know I did).

Btw, what are your concerns about the engine, because of which you are considering a teardown and rebuild?

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sjbsuperman1425
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I've never disassembled my CA other than removing the head, but I really dont see any difference in the CA from any other I-Engine. As long as you label things, keep them organized, and just remember what goes where, you should be fine. Hell, in my courses at my community college, we would disassemble automatic transmissions and transaxles without labeling anything and just through all the parts in a cupboard and always managed to get it back together and running correctly and automatic trans' are far more difficult than engines IMO.

PS, dont use my methods for disassembly, its stupid :)

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Amays U G37S
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Imo, its a 20 year old motor. Yes you can rebuild it, but yes its going to be expensive.

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ska69
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blownhemi, pretty much that's what I wanted to hear...

replace whatever needs to be replaced upon inspection (first teardown, then think :)) It ran badly when I bought it...

sjbsuperman1425, blownhemi, yes yes, exactly! label, take pictures, ask questions :) I want to get some experience out of this...and If I mess up, I can have someone (hopefully) to help me out :)

Amays U G37S, might be something I don't know what I'm getting into?

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Amays U G37S
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ska69 wrote: Amays U G37S, might be something I don't know what I'm getting into?
ya man, you wanna be careful.

You might break a rare part or something crucial to the mechanics of the motor and not be able to source the part for a long period of time.

I would not rebuild a CA, I would however, buy a SR20 and rebuild it.

You'll have more promising parts, aftermarket, etc...

You want the CA for the Rev power? You can build a SR20 and put down more power and not worry about the high rev point.

I would stay away from rebuilding a CA, unless you have some deep pockets.

Your best bet is to source 2 full motors, or one half full, and the other full, to rebuild yours. Most likely youll have chips in the cylinder walls from detenation, and other for-seen problems with a CA18.

Japanese cars are only driven to 65000km, or 45,000 miles and then sent to the junkyard for another car due to the high strict laws on emissions. But beat to s***.

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Here we go again :facepalm:

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float_6969
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Amays U G37S wrote:
ska69 wrote: Amays U G37S, might be something I don't know what I'm getting into?
ya man, you wanna be careful.

You might break a rare part or something crucial to the mechanics of the motor and not be able to source the part for a long period of time.

I would not rebuild a CA, I would however, buy a SR20 and rebuild it.

You'll have more promising parts, aftermarket, etc...

You want the CA for the Rev power? You can build a SR20 and put down more power and not worry about the high rev point.

I would stay away from rebuilding a CA, unless you have some deep pockets.

Your best bet is to source 2 full motors, or one half full, and the other full, to rebuild yours. Most likely youll have chips in the cylinder walls from detenation, and other for-seen problems with a CA18.

Japanese cars are only driven to 65000km, or 45,000 miles and then sent to the junkyard for another car due to the high strict laws on emissions. But beat to s***.
I'm gonna assume from your post count you don't know WTF you're talking about. Sorry to be blunt, but everything you said is ridiculous. If you had spent any time in the CA forum, and actually had any first hand experience with the CA18DE(T), you'd know how wrong what you just said was.

"...more promising parts, aftermarket, etc..."
Promising parts? IDK what that even means. If you mean parts from companies like tomei, and cp, and weisco, etc, the I would call those both promising and aftermarket. All very easily obtained parts.

"You can build a SR20 and put down more power and not worry about the high rev point. "
Hmm, where to start? PROVE THIS STATEMENT! Not only will you NOT prove this, but you CAN'T! I would argue, and be willing to bet good money, that given the same modifications, to stock rebuilt motors, and the same airflow rates, the CA will make the same power as an SR will. If the butterfly system is functioning as it should be, I would even argue that it will have comparable torque.

As for the high rev point, I will admit, that below 3K, the CA can be a bit of a dog, but I personally, as have many others on this forum and other forums in different countries, have revved the CA, on a daily basis, to 8K RPM, with no modifications to the valve train, and not had any problems. Granted, the stock cams aren't doing much up there, but it can be done. It HAS been done. There ARE no worries about high revs on a CA with MAYBE the exception of the rod bolts stretching, which seems to be easily fixed with a cheap set of ARP rod bolts. How do I know? BECAUSE I'VE DONE IT TO MY MOTOR!!! The one I drive all the time. Just drove it 4 hours ago. Hit my 8K RPM rev limit in 1st through 4th gears. Did that 3 times today. TODAY. I've had that motor for nearly 10 years now. Granted it's not stock, but the only internal mods are the pistons and the rod-bolts.

"I would stay away from rebuilding a CA, unless you have some deep pockets."
Rebuilding a CA doesn't cost any more than rebuilding an SR would. What is your reasoning behind thinking it will be more expensive?

"Most likely youll have chips in the cylinder walls from detenation, and other for-seen problems with a CA18"
Chips in the cylinder walls? I've been on NICO, since BEFORE it was NICO. I'm also a member on SXOC, and various other forums. I've never, not ONCE heard of chipped cylinder walls. I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm saying it's uncommon. Certainly not a "most likely" scenario. What other "for-seen" problems? The UK guys complain a lot about rod bearings giving out. Don't hear much about it in the US or Australia. I've often wondered if their oiling system was different than the JDM spec motors. Regardless, the consensus is that it's due to rod bolt stretch, and the ARP's remedy that. And I honestly think there is something else going on (poor oil draining and poor layout of the stock PCV system + high revs, a common problem with the RB20/25/26, that causes oil starvation and the rod bearing problems).

"Japanese cars are only driven to 65000km, or 45,000 miles and then sent to the junkyard for another car due to the high strict laws on emissions. But beat to s***"
Japanese cars, like the ones that SR's come from?

DO NOT come into my forum, and regurgitate BS internet myth that you've heard from somewhere. If you want the truth about this motor, ask the people who own them and drive them everyday.

[/RANT]

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themadscientist
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I haven't heard that old rumor in close to ten years, thanks for the laugh. :rotflmao

My s*** at like 160k, better pull before I get arrested. Geez, the FJ is 25 years old, I'm probably a felon! :ohno:

I think the authorities are on to my secret odometer rollback service that singlehandedly keeps thousands of 1960's classic cars plying the Japanese streets. :shifter:

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Amays U G37S
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@float_6969

It was my opinion bro

no need to get your panties all bunched up

Its a 20 year old motor, im trying to save him heartacke. All I hear is stuff like oil pumps going out or certain valvetrain parts and no one can find it for 3 months. If he wants to build it let him. You came in and corrected most of what I said, but also agreed with parts of it.

There ya go.

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themadscientist
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You wrote your opinion as if it was fact and none of it was anything of the kind. Never had a CA oil pump fail, never seen or heard of one fail. You are confusing the CA with R31-32 RBs which do chew up pumps if you over rev them. The CA actually has a much more reliable valvetrain than the SR, but to tear up the SR you have to act just as stupid as you would to blow an RB oil pump so it's not what I would call a "flaw" just a weakness. The weak point on the CA is rod bolts and displacement.

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Amays U G37S
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Sorry

I don't find anything to be this serious.

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themadscientist
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When you pass BS off as solid info to someone who is trying to make a serious decision, I take it seriously. If you don't know what you are talking about don't waste his time.

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ska69
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Amays U G37S, thanks for your opinion =)

themadscientist, float_6969, now I know that I'll need to replace rod bolts as well :)

My decision is made, the CA is going to be torn-down, inspected and rebuilt by me. I do realize that this might be not the best decision nor idea, but I hope everything will turn out just fine in the end. At least I'll get some experience. I'll be taking pictures, labeling and writing stuff down as I go through the process, and hopefully NICO CA fellows will be kind enough to help me out with advices and some handy tips :)

As for now I'll read and learn as much as I can before I get my hands on taking apart the poor CA :) lol

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sjbsuperman1425
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I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say we are more than happy to lend your our knowledge if need be :)

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ska69
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I'm delighted to hear/read that :)

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themadscientist
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You could just replace the rods completely.
http://www.k1technologies.com/Rods/tabi ... fault.aspx

Image

I picked up a set from here.
http://www.importperformanceparts.net/i ... s-all.html

blownhemi
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themadscientist wrote:You could just replace the rods completely.
http://www.k1technologies.com/Rods/tabi ... fault.aspx

I picked up a set from here.
http://www.importperformanceparts.net/i ... s-all.html
Still on sale for $300? It's been on sale since half a year ago, when I ordered them. Demand must be pretty low.

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themadscientist
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We are probably 5% of the market between the two of us.

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But if we were talking about how much of a beef cake TMS is, he'd have 100% of the market! Yea baby! [/Austin Powers voice]

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ska69
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300 for rods is too much for me, as I'd prefer to spend that on something else for my car :)

My plan is to rebuild the engine in stock(w/o turbo) using pulsar nx ca18de parts and a bit more from other engines.

Here is what I was thinking:

camshafts - stock (iirc, exhaust camshaft from ca18de)

crankshaft - leaving the current ca18de crank

pistons - found some @ a good price in Australia...look stock and new.

piston rings - pulsar nx

connecting rods - pulsar nx (found remaned)

connecting rod bearings - pulsar nx

crankshaft (main?) bearings - pulsar nx

valve intake - pulsar nx

valve exhaust - only ca18det?

timing belt tensioner - pulsar nx

idler pulley - pulsar nx

valve guides intake - (maxima a32 (vq20/30de), also vq35de, vq40de, ca16,ca18)

valve guides exhaust - (primera p10 (sr20de, pretty much any sr20de engine)

gaskets - either cometic or nissan oem

injectors - leaving stock for now

water pump - ca18et

oil pump - ca18de

alternator - '91 ka24e

starter - '89 pulsar or '86 200sx/stanza

p/s pump - I suppose electric pump

a/c compressor - any matching to the stock one (forgot the correct model)

engine mounts - I currently have subaru mounts, they are in good condition and I'm going to leave them

sensors and other engine electric stuff - replace with new parts

I'm not sure what else should be replaced in case of total overhaul, so suggestions and comments are welcome :)

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ska69 wrote:300 for rods is too much for me, as I'd prefer to spend that on something else for my car :)
That's too bad, because forged rods don't come any cheaper than this. But then again, for the power you're after, stock ones are adequate.
ska69 wrote: My plan is to rebuild the engine in stock(w/o turbo) using pulsar nx ca18de parts and a bit more from other engines.

Here is what I was thinking:

.
.
.

I'm not sure what else should be replaced in case of total overhaul, so suggestions and comments are welcome :)
Just a general suggestion... :)
Before you go on buying all this stuff, take the engine apart, and inspect everything, and have those things inspected for which you don't have the proper instrument. Like maybe a bore gauge for the cylinders, mains, connecting rod ends. A caliper for the crank journals, pistons. All of them accurate to 0.01mm. Measure everything the FSM says needs measured, post them up here if you're unsure how to continue. You might not need to buy another set of pistons and rods. Or the electronics and sensors stuff. They'll cost well above $300 if purchased new.
You're mentioning Pulsar NX, '86 200SX, Stanza, Maxima - these are US vehicles, do you plan on ordering all of this stuff from the US? I'd check with a local car parts shop first, maybe they have the parts you need, and you don't have to pay for all that shipping.

Was/is your car running now, by the way?

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ska69
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blownhemi,

the car was running until October of last year. Then I started to take the car apart for restoration :) At this point I have a restored body, chassis and some misc stuff ordered for the 200sx s13.

my 200sx ran badly. Engine whine was horrible, the skyline turbo didn't do any good, and something with the clutch was messed up for sure (I had an auto-to manual swap done). Alternator was also acting strange and the car just ran awful. I can't remember all small problems it had, but I'm just not comfortable knowing that something is wrong with the car.

I'm not sure if the engine is in OK condition - but I was told it was rebuilt right before I bought it, but again, the car ran badly, and my conclusion lead me to starting this topic.

the local similar vehicle (engine-wise) would be '88-up Nissan Bluebird (fwd ca18de), but the parts that are sold here are mainly Chinese and poor quality. That's why I decided to order most of the parts from a US dealer. I know I can contact local Nissan dealers but that would take much more time then ordering from the US.

I don't want forged or other tune-spec internals, as my goal isn't to build a sr20-killer or a drift machine, I just want a great daily driver :)

I guess I should have the block inspected and measured at a machine shop once its torn down?

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Be very careful with sensitive parts as stated before, you don't want to break things that are hard to find. If you are going to rebuild, then put a plan in place to organize your tear-down. And contrary to some, the CA is very easy engine to rebuild ifyou're not a complete novice. If you are a "true-newb" then it's going to be one hell-of-an experience, but don't go spending foolish money on things you really don't need. The CA is a very forgiving engine in it's physical form, but it can turn to poo if the rebuild quality is poor. Take advantage of the wealth of knowledge on this forum as it is pretty vast........

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ska69
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boost_boy, I sure will do :)

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themadscientist wrote:You wrote your opinion as if it was fact and none of it was anything of the kind. Never had a CA oil pump fail, never seen or heard of one fail.
Mine just failed at 89,000 KM... =(

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float_6969
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No offense, buy my first reaction to that was, what happened to the oil, or the oil pickup, to cause it to fail.


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