Horrible Fuel Economy

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K03sport
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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (srellim234)

Postby K03sport » Wed Mar 18, 2009 4:18 pm

Has anyone thought about checking your spark plugs? If the plugs aren't gapped right, you may not be getting the most efficient burn, meaning less power and more fuel used.

Has anyone had to get the car tested for emissions? The cars that are getting lower mileage could be running rich, so extra fuel is being dumped into the cylinder and only hurting you fuel economy.

I would think the dealer could "reflash" your ECU. Not just reset it, but reflash it.

The engine is an air pump and the more efficiently it can move air in and out, the better is will perform. Winter gas might have something to do lower numbers, but you won't know until summer gas starts showing up at the pumps.

Anyone switch to a synthetic oil?Anyone air thiertires 10% (2-3psi) over recommended pressure?

Cany you make a claim to the the Canadian Vehicle Police explaining you car is not meeting or performing at government standards???


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frankoV
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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (K03sport)

Postby frankoV » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:07 am

K03sport wrote:
Cany you make a claim to the the Canadian Vehicle Police explaining you car is not meeting or performing at government standards???
what will they do, arrest themselves?

[oh, and it ain't standards, it's expectations . . . and we all know about not living up to expectations . . . just ask my wife]

Bubs daddy
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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (frankohabs)

Postby Bubs daddy » Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:50 am

Quote » don't give a hoot about who set the EPA numbers. Nissan, the man in the moon or the EPA.[/quote]The EPA changed the testing procedure in 2008 to reflect real world driving habits. All cars numbers went down a few digits.

I get 34-36 mpg on the highway. I get 30-34 mpg combined all the time. So I'm getting the numbers as printed on the sticker.

Maybe it's your driving habits.

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K03sport
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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (frankohabs)

Postby K03sport » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:03 am

frankohabs wrote:
what will they do, arrest themselves?

[oh, and it ain't standards, it's expectations . . . and we all know about not living up to expectations . . .
I keep forgetting there are no standards, just guessing using a formula.

After posting, I got to thinking...all or most of the repliers on here with Versas say they don't go above 3000rpm and some 2000rpm. That just seems to gentle. A healthy engine should be rung out every now and then. They don't call them Italian tune-ups for nothing. Smash the go pedal and get that 1.6 screaming.

Oh, and I've never been a fan of the CVT transmission. I'm not convinced yet that it is better than a traditional auto. That's why I don't have a Murano.


Modified by K03sport at 6:07 PM 3/19/2009

dangene
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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy

Postby dangene » Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:33 pm

I too am getting much worse mileage than expected: 22 to 24 mpg city and 25-28 on the highway, and this is in Florida where the temps are moderate and the roads are straight and flat. I am not a hotfoot but do keep up with traffic. I get 25 to 28 mpg on my 07 Dodge mini-van on the highway! and 17 mpg in the city. The Versa is an SL with CVT with only 3,000 miles on it. It has had 2 fuel pressure regulators replaced, one at 200 miles and the other around 1800 miles. I like the car but I bought it for fuel mileage and am very disappointed. I would not recommend anyone buying a Versa for that reason.I should mention that I am 67 years old, have been a gearhead since 12 , have worked as a mechanic for 4 years and have rebuilt cars and motorcycles as a hobby, I am not a neophyte. I sure hope further break in will improve mileage, but am pessimistic. Oh, the fuel pressure regulator is starting to act up again!

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frankoV
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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (dangene)

Postby frankoV » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:04 am

I think there should be a sticky at the top of the page regarding mileage, and that everyone should have to read it once becoming a member. The gist of the message should be:

you will get poor gas mileage until you pass 10,000 mi [16,000 km] and have changed the oil twice

That would probably half the "poor mileage" posts.

dangene: give it a bit . . . mileage will improve [though what in the world is up with the regulator?]

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srellim234
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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (frankohabs)

Postby srellim234 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:11 am

Not so fast on the "poor gas mileage until you reach 10,000 miles" claim.

My Versa came off the showoom floor with 9 miles on it and delivered 30 mpg on the first tank. Then reality set in. Gas mileage dropped 10% after that and there is no appreciable change in the mpg as time has gone on. Ours delivers 25-26 city, 29-31 highway.

Our Versa is at 28.0 mpg over 21,000 miles on 51% city, 49% highway driving, usually at 65-69 mph on the highway. The car rarely sees over 2500 rpm and accelleration is always in the 1800-1900 rpm range. Those numbers were arrived at through trial and error, using different methods to try to squeeze better mileage out of the car.

Of over 45 different models I've owned or rented over the years, the Versa is the ONLY car that I have been unable to get a combined mpg exceeding at least the lower city mileage figure on the sticker (the sticker was 30/36 when we bought the car). The optimum efficiency range on the Versa is the narrowest of any car I've been around. The best mileage is at a constant 45-55 mph on flat roads, something I've only seen in Florida.

The Versa is a very good all-around car, but from all the discussions that have gone on here over the last year and a half it is pretty apparent that the car suffers from some very inconsistent manufacturing/assembly processes. That really varies the performance from individual car to individual car.

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (srellim234)

Postby kc5f » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:18 am

srellim234 wrote:Not so fast on the "poor gas mileage until you reach 10,000 miles" claim.
I've got to agree with this, at least for my early production model. I averaged 32.7 for the first 5k and 31.7 for the first 10k. The reason for the drop is that I bought it in the fall, and by 10k it was winter. But looking at a graph over the three winters and two summers, it's consistently averaged 30-32 in the winter and 33-35 in the summer. The "break-in" period fits the curve perfectly.

(Half of my commute is at 70-75mph, most of the rest at 50-60mph, and varying from rolling hills to low Blue Ridge mountains. I'm one of those folks who accelerates at no more than 2000-2500rpm, and I never let it go above 3000rpm. Even climbing the "Blue Ridge Escarpment" it holds 65mph at 3000rpm.)

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Rockhound
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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (tama48)

Postby Rockhound » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:14 am

tama48 wrote:I don't give a hoot about who set the EPA numbers. Nissan, the man in the moon or the EPA. Here are the facts:

When I researched the car I saw one set of estimated mpg numbers POSTED on the car window.

I buy the car with that being the MAJOR reason ( miles per gallon). It has never come close to the original numbers on the sticker (I still have the sticker). Then Whoever changed those numbers (doesn't matter to me) after I bought the car.
Well, you better care who set the mileage rating before crying "false advertising". Car manufacturers have no say in the efficiency ratings the EPA assigns their respective cars.

What you don't seem to understand is that every car known to man received more conservative ratings when the EPA changed their testing procedures for the 2008 model year. The previous testing methods were antiquated and poorly reflected the way most cars are driven on a daily basis.

You act like it was some conspiracy that the Versa's mileage rating was lowered after you bought it. Guess what? We bought our Versa in 2007 as well, under the previous mileage claims. And we regularly get 28-30 MPG in town and 32-34 MPG during highway driving. So our Versa delivers mileage within the 2007 EPA guidelines.
tama48 wrote:Had I known the true numbers of the MPG BEFORE I bought the car I wouldn't have.

Like I said never again. But thanks for all the clearification as to who sets the estimated mpg numbers.
Well, that's what Google is for, right? Do a little research yourself instead of just taking everything at face value.

I trolled around on this forum for a month or so just reading posts and learning about the car. I learned that there were a few early build defects (airbag cover misalignment, fuel door issues, etc.) and I also checked in to see what kind of gas mileage owners were getting.

And yes, you apparently needed "clearification" [sic]. When you make an asinine claim like false advertising, it's clear that you don't understand how the mileage ratings are assigned.

Furthermore, just what kind of mileage has your Versa been getting? Just curious since you haven't quantified anything yet.

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (Rockhound)

Postby Bubs daddy » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:14 am

Quote »I too am getting much worse mileage than expected: 22 to 24 mpg city and 25-28 on the highway, and this is in Florida where the temps are moderate and the roads are straight and flat. I am not a hotfoot but do keep up with traffic. I get 25 to 28 mpg on my 07 Dodge mini-van on the highway! and 17 mpg in the city.

The Versa is an SL with CVT with only 3,000 miles on it. It has had 2 fuel pressure regulators replaced, one at 200 miles and the other around 1800 miles. I like the car but I bought it for fuel mileage and am very disappointed. I would not recommend anyone buying a Versa for that reason.

I should mention that I am 67 years old, have been a gearhead since 12 , have worked as a mechanic for 4 years and have rebuilt cars and motorcycles as a hobby, I am not a neophyte. I sure hope further break in will improve mileage, but am pessimistic. Oh, the fuel pressure regulator is starting to act up again![/quote]I have the CVT and get the mileage on the sticker.

"Your mileage may vary." It's a disclaimer that's commonly used. Maybe your driving habits cause the Versa to get poorer mileage. Maybe you accelerate too fast keeping up with traffic. Maybe it's the fuel blend. Maybe you don't fill up the tank to the same spot and the calculations are wrong.

I'm just going to say it. Maybe it's not the car. Maybe it's your driving. If I'm getting the mileage on the sticker and you're not, than it's driving habits. It's the same vehicle. I pretty much drive on the same roads. Flat and straight.

People who live in the colder climates may experience lesser fuel economy. But I'm thinking this is more a driver issue. Many variables can cause differing fuel mileage and I stated some of those before. I believe the biggest to be driver habits.

Accelerating quickly, excessive idling, and driving faster or at faster continuous speeds than slower continuous speeds can have a dramatic affect on mileage.

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (Bubs daddy)

Postby Rockhound » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:54 am

Bubs daddy wrote:I have the CVT and get the mileage on the sticker...

...I'm just going to say it. Maybe it's not the car. Maybe it's your driving.
Right on, Bubs. I think most folks would be surprised to see how they actually drive as compared to how they think they drive, you know? My Mazda has a built in mileage computer, essentially a less feature-rich Scan Gauge built in the center stack. It keeps track of stats like average speed, and average/instantaneous mileage.

The instantaneous mileage is perhaps the most revealing, since subtle acceleration at highway speeds really eats at mileage - especially up a very slight grade. We're talking a drop of nearly 10 MPG with an increase of 200-400 RPMs. I've learned a lot about my car and how it ticks - the manner in which fuel efficiency varies can be complex.

This also leads me to think that some folks aren't really driving under proper "highway" conditions. My wife's commute in her Versa includes maybe 8-9 miles total on two busy highways. You've got a couple short on-ramps, traffic stops, and not enough time cruising at speed to really qualify as highway driving. As a result, she averages 28-30 MPG, depending on various factors.

Point is, it's tempting to think that she should be getting even better mileage, since she does drive on the "highway", but those conditions are far more akin to an urban setting. When we take the Versa on road trips and cruise for 50+ miles, we see 32-34 MPG.

And I still contend that...

a) most folks don't keep very accurate mileage records, instead calculating mileage for one tank and taking it as gospel,b) many folks don't calculate mileage properly - like the dreaded "miles to the tank" BSc) most cold-climate owners fail to take excessive warm-up idling into consideration, andd) most of the low MPG complaints probably fall within the margin of error on EPA ratings.

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (srellim234)

Postby frankoV » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:11 pm

srellim234 wrote:Not so fast on the "poor gas mileage until you reach 10,000 miles" claim.
'twas just a generalization . . . but many of us have seen mileage improve after the [whatever] "break-in".

of course be aware that ymmv.

of course driving technique makes a difference .

one further thing: I have this feeling that EPA estimates are based on driving 50 mph/80 kph . . . not "regular" driving speeds.


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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (Rockhound)

Postby Bubs daddy » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:30 pm

That has been my experience as well, Rockhound. A little happy foot and mileage can plummet. It doesn't take a lot to lower mileage significantly.

For example, in Arizona the speed limit is 75 mph on the freeway with the exception of city limits. Most drive 5 mph over so that's 80 mph. There's no way that someone who has a 40 mile commute each way will yield the EPA estimates for highway travel. The engine is working harder, using more air and using more fuel.

I have learned that a light foot on the pedal when leaving from a complete stop is essential to good mileage. Gradual acceleration, even on on-ramps will be much more efficient and effective.

For those getting worse mileage than expected, pretend there's an egg between your foot and the accelerator pedal. That's how you get good mileage. Very gentle, very gradual acceleration. In city and on the highway.

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (Bubs daddy)

Postby Bubs daddy » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:34 pm

Quote »one further thing: I have this feeling that EPA estimates are based on driving 50 mph/80 kph . . . not "regular" driving speeds.[/quote]That's why the EPA changed their testing procedures in 2008. The new testing is a better indicator of real world driving.

The old method was hardly realistic. They didn't use the air conditioning, no cold weather testing, and the driving speeds tested were far lower than what even the legal speed limits are. They also had a very short loop that averaged only 40 mph, I beleive.

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (Bubs daddy)

Postby dangene » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:48 am

Did you miss the part about the Dodge grand Caravan? Same driver, same highway route = 25 miles per gallon in van and only 26 mpg in Versa! And this is not just one trip but over and again! I am aware of all the variables that affect gas mileage, been a gearhead for 50 years now. The van is an 07 Grand Caravan SXT 3.8L. V6, 4spd auto. with stow n go seats. Weighs about 1,000 pounds more than the Versa.

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (dangene)

Postby 1_Sleek_Versa » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:23 am

Dangene,

I sold my 244 000 km Olds Cutlass Supreme with 3.4L to buy the Versa. It was giving me 30 mpg flat. The Versa just got me in the 30's since last oil change. lol

Don't worry about it. If it gives me at least 30 mpg I won't be b****ing about it. I too was hoping for a bit more.

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (1_Sleek_Versa)

Postby dangene » Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:05 am

After reading several posts on this forum about long break-in miles on the Versa and improvement in mileage after the second oil change or 10,000 miles, I look forward to better mileage in future. 10,000 miles is a long break-in period! For now, I will postpone my battle with the dealer. Thanks, 1_Sleek_Versa and others. This is the value of forums: to learn from the experience of others.

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (dangene)

Postby Rockhound » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:24 am

dangene wrote:After reading several posts on this forum about long break-in miles on the Versa and improvement in mileage after the second oil change or 10,000 miles, I look forward to better mileage in future. 10,000 miles is a long break-in period! For now, I will postpone my battle with the dealer. Thanks, 1_Sleek_Versa and others. This is the value of forums: to learn from the experience of others.
I really don't know what to make of the break-in length. Hard to believe that at some point a switch is flipped and the mileage drastically improves, but that appears to be what some folks are experiencing. Ours was a very slow, steady increase in economy over the first couple thousand miles from 25-26 MPG in town to eventually consistently getting 27-30 MPG in town, depending on factors like seasons and fuel blends.

Inconsistency is the name of the game, though, since some folks have reported EPA-beating mileage from day one off the dealer's lot.

I would highly recommend using synthetic motor oil, although I'm sure some of the folks getting great mileage out of their Versas use conventional. Have you tried different fuel blends/brands?

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (Rockhound)

Postby srellim234 » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:44 pm

I agree that there are some true inconsistencies out there. Driving style does not account for all of the discrepancies people are experiencing. The mileage varies from car to car, just the same way that some people are getting multiple bad fuel regulators while other people are just fine with the original one that came with the car.

I haven't read anything on the forum that indicates that after the break-in period the mpg could increase a full 10 mpg to put it in line with the average Versa out there. I think the most I've read is about a 4 mpg increase.

That's why I suggested resetting the computer. It's possible that the car is misreading air intake which is compounding the problem. Those two problems combined could account for such a large drain on the mpg., but I don't think either one alone can account for that much.

I hate to bring up something other than that because there is no fix for my other thought about pbrady12 and dangene's cars. They might just be bad Versas that offset some of the better-than-average ones out there.

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (Rockhound)

Postby Bubs daddy » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:54 pm

Experiences reported here are anecdotal and not scientific. I believe that's the reason for the descrepencies. Some may not be recording their mileage correctly. Some are stating their mileage when it's 10 degrees while others are in warm climates.

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (kc5f)

Postby pbrady12 » Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:05 pm

Back to the original reason for this post. I am trying to find someone with the same issue I have that has also foud a solution. I'm happy most are getting awesome fuel economy. I have driven this car in every driving condition, style and terrain. I consistantly get 24mpg. I have had every sensor and regulator checked several times and Nissan as a cooperation will do nothing about my fuel economy. When I get time to have my computer reflashed I will. it should be in the next 2 weeks. I will post the results. If anyone has any other ideas please fill me in. If you get awesome fuel economy with your versa, your comments are worthless.

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (pbrady12)

Postby Bergerman » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:56 pm

Someone mentioned different octains as a possibility and I was just wondering if those that were getting awesome mileage might be running the mid level and premium levels. I just calculated and over 5000 miles of commuter driving (combined with no big trips) I have averaged 27 MPG. Not great but the sticker says 24/31 so just about in the middle but I have been running regular unleaded. I'm just wondering if I might get better with the higher octain grades. Thoughts?

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (Bergerman)

Postby iluvmyVersa08 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:58 pm

This may sound like a stupid/silly question, but how do you figure out your MPG?Do you have a special device that tells you? All I know is how many kms per tank I get, but I don't know how one figures out the MPG.

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (iluvmyVersa08)

Postby Rockhound » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:20 pm

iluvmyVersa08 wrote:This may sound like a stupid/silly question, but how do you figure out your MPG?
All you do is divide the miles (or km) driven by the amount of fuel you used. So next time you get gas, zero the odometer before you leave, and then when you fill up again, record the mileage and divide by the volume of fuel. If you were to drive 300 miles till you fill up and you used 10 gallons, your Versa would be returning 30 MPG.

To keep things as accurate as possible, you'll want to fill the tank to the same point at every fill-up (to the first click off, for instance) and reset your trip distance before you drive away from the station.
Bergerman wrote: I just calculated and over 5000 miles of commuter driving (combined with no big trips) I have averaged 27 MPG. Not great but the sticker says 24/31 so just about in the middle but I have been running regular unleaded. I'm just wondering if I might get better with the higher octain grades. Thoughts?
So would you define your 'commuter driving' as city or highway? Just curious.

As for using higher octane gas, it is usually a waste of money unless you've modified your engine to take advantage of the additional octane. That is, it would require something like advancing your timing to see a real difference in the Versa.

Our Versa has a lifetime average of 29.3 MPG on 87 octane, only.
pbrady12 wrote:If you get awesome fuel economy with your versa, your comments are worthless.
I hope you're joking!


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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (Rockhound)

Postby iluvmyVersa08 » Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:26 pm

Thank you ROCKHOUND. I will give it a try the next time I fill up. I appreciate your help Thanks!

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (iluvmyVersa08)

Postby Rockhound » Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:17 pm

iluvmyVersa08 wrote:Thank you ROCKHOUND. I will give it a try the next time I fill up. I appreciate your help Thanks!
No problem!

I also thought it would be good to mention that you'll see some fluctuation from tank to tank, so it's helpful to keep track of your mileage results from each fill-up to average them out. Averaging your results also irons out the little inconsistencies (like getting gas at a different station with pumps that cut off differently).

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (pbrady12)

Postby fjwagner » Wed Mar 25, 2009 5:42 pm

Our Versa has gotten horrible gas mileage from day one until today (13000 miles). We have two 6 cylinder cars that get better highway mileage than the Versa. The in-town mileage is almost identical. Some economy car! The only saving grace is that we did not have to pay that much for it.

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (fjwagner)

Postby Bergerman » Thu Mar 26, 2009 11:39 am

I would define commuter driving as normal around town stuff. I have 24 miles one way to work of highway and the rest would be around town stuff with short trips. Maybe i'll burn a tank of 89 to see if it makes a difference. Thanks.

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (fjwagner)

Postby Rockhound » Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:58 pm

fjwagner wrote:Our Versa has gotten horrible gas mileage from day one until today (13000 miles). We have two 6 cylinder cars that get better highway mileage than the Versa. The in-town mileage is almost identical. Some economy car! The only saving grace is that we did not have to pay that much for it.
Well, it looks like your main problem is that you went with the S model, which with either the standard transmission or 4-speed auto does not achieve the same mileage as the CVT. Sure, some folks have reported lackluster mileage with the CVT as well, but by far it is the most economical transmission of the three.
Bergerman wrote:I would define commuter driving as normal around town stuff. I have 24 miles one way to work of highway and the rest would be around town stuff with short trips. Maybe i'll burn a tank of 89 to see if it makes a difference. Thanks.
Gotcha. Sounds like you've got a 4-speed automatic model then (based on the EPA rating you mentioned)? 27 MPG combined isn't too shabby, I'd think. But with gas prices as low as they are, I guess it couldn't hurt to at least try 89 octane.

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Re: Horrible Fuel Economy (pbrady12)

Postby pbrady12 » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:20 am

I'm happy but sad you have the same issue I have. To others askin how I figure my miledge......I reset the odometer every timr I fill up. I take the miles on the odometer and devide it by the gallons of gas I put in the gas tank. which equals an estimated miles per gallon. I understand that each pump will fill up the tank a different amount depending the sensativity of the pump shut off. I have taken an average of all my fill ups. they vary from pump to pump. I might get the rare 28mpg, but it is always followed by a 20 mpg. do the math.....it equals 24mph again. If I drive 250 mile on a strait flad highway with the ac off, windows rolled up, and cruise set......I should get the ultimate miledge. I've done it at 60mph, 70mph, and 75mph. every time has been 24mpg. there is nothing in my control that can cause a faulty MPG test. due to my busy lifestyle I haven't made it to get my computer "reflashed" I have came across another problem with my car that is getting progressively wore and worse. When coming from stopped to accelerating it almost dies. It doesn't matter if I accelerate slowly or quickly, the RPM dropps to below 500rpm, chuggs a little bit before accelerating. it also does the same when breaking heavily. When I get a chance to take it in again I will address this as well in hopes for a solution.


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