Hey telcoman - more good news for ya...

[rn79870]

Here's telcoman's woody for the day... It looks like the last Mercury will roll off the assembly line in 2012. After that, Mercury will join Plymouth and Oldsmobile in the great junk yard in the sky. It's too bad. Mercury has marketed some great cars, to wit: Pantera.

Tell me, why is it that Saturn survives, and the old time brands are falling off the face of the earth?

Linkie:http://www.autoblog.com/2008/0...-2012/

[snwbrdr435]

saturn needs to go to i hate those cars

[heliochrome85]

why? whats wrong with saturn? their cars are modern and stylish. their interiors are nicer than cars costing several thousand more.

[snwbrdr435]

would you drive one instead of your g. The interiors are cheap and feel cheap, everything about them is cheap. That is why they cost so little, my friend has an ion and he hates it. The exteriors are

[heliochrome85]

my G stickered for 41,500. Last time I checked, Saturns dont go up that high. and YES, i would drive one. I have a soft spot in my heart for the Sky Redline. Also, the Vue is a fantastic small SUV with a very impressive interior. Gone are the days of the ION. It was a POS that was dead on arrival. The saturn of old, is thankfully dead. Welcome to the new GM.

[Sentientbydesign]

What's up with all the love for el-cheapo cars?

[heliochrome85]

is it wrong to appreciate cars that are cheaper then our own? last time i checked, being a petrosexual meant you enjoyed cars of all stripe and size. the only cars i hate are those that are made just to make a profit (kia rio, early hyundais, toyota corolla, Yaris, Echo). if the car has a eprsonality, then you know passion heart and soul went into it. thats what we should all applaud.

[rn79870]

The bad news is that Lola was made just to make a profit, just like every car out there. Ever sit in a Saturn sky and try to reach the elec. window switch? It won an award for being one of the worst designed. That should say something.

petrosexual - that's funny though...

[telcoman]

Here's telcoman's woody for the day... It looks like the last Mercury will roll off the assembly line in 2012. After that, Mercury will join Plymouth and Oldsmobile in the great junk yard in the sky. It's too bad. Mercury has marketed some great cars, to wit: Pantera.

Tell me, why is it that Saturn survives, and the old time brands are falling off the face of the earth?

Linkie:http://www.autoblog.com/2008/0...-2012/

LOL. I'm not surprised. After reading some of the comments, many of them are correct. Mercury made their last good automobiles in the 40's and 50'sNo younger person would be caught in one today or enter a showroom. Take a look at who drives Mercury today. Most of them are older than I am. Glad I'm still young.

Telcoman

[heliochrome85]

no i know, but im saying that there are two kinds of cars on the road.1.) the kind that comes from a real passion for cars -- See Ferrari, Lambo2.) the kind that comes from a gap in the market -- See Tata, Corollas, Caymans,

Its true that nissan made the G/Z because of a "gap" in the market, but at the heart of it was a passion for making cars, not a passion for making a profit. thats why id never buy a toyota (of my own choice), and would rather sink my money into a lotus or a Land Rover. History, thats what makes the difference.

Its sad to see mercury go. They deserve better products. Also, please ford, please ditch that nasty nasty nasty nasty nasty nasty nasty nasty nasty nasty remote/key combo that you have been using since the late 80s. You know what i like about my car? the key is just as nice as the car.

[heliochrome85]

what should it say? the 7 series won awards for its interior's lack of ergonomics too. do you deny their zest for building cars? or can good cars only have well layed out interiors?

speaking of which, the seat controls of the G are HORRIBLE. whats to say of that?

[Sentientbydesign]

I have a habit of getting into heated debates on here and everybody points the finger at me, but here's my take on things.

Quality before anything else. Price, looks, performance...etc. come after quality.

Saturn makes large matchbox knock offs ala Chinese lead paint toys. Mercury makes rebadged Furd crap. Hyundai still build garbage. Daewoo is just comical. I want to run their tin cans off the road every time I see one.

BMW needs to do more interior testing before production.

[abdoman]

My wife's company vehicle is a Saturn Aura. It's actually a nice car. You can't expect a high dollar interior on a car in this price range but it actually handles and drives pretty good.

I have driven much worse cars recently, look at the interior of a Jeep Grand Cherokee (08').

[heliochrome85]

please list for me the car brands you admire and why they are not worthless.

[TeflonG35]

1. Saturn has stepped their game up. Their current line up is quite nice. Ofcourse most of the line up is based off the Opel from Europe. The new astra is a very nice looking cheap car. The aura is a very nice car. The sky is sexy, Specially when people stuff an LS2 in them(vrooooom).

2. I love the mercury marauder. Look at that @ss. It just screams "I'm going to rape you!"

[heliochrome85]

too bad it was slow as ****. 300hp was fine, but it came from the atrocious 4.6L Mustang V8, which isnt exactly the most efficient. Plus, the marauder was like the weight of the moon, so that translated to 0-60 in 7.7, or about a second slower than my old 1995 STS. sad actually.

[badutahboy]

I have a habit of getting into heated debates on here and everybody points the finger at me, but here's my take on things.

Quality before anything else. Price, looks, performance...etc. come after quality.

Saturn makes large matchbox knock offs ala Chinese lead paint toys. Mercury makes rebadged Furd crap. Hyundai still build garbage. Daewoo is just comical. I want to run their tin cans off the road every time I see one.

BMW needs to do more interior testing before production.

So basically if it's not European or Japanese, it's worthless?

[TeflonG35]

too bad it was slow as ****. 300hp was fine, but it came from the atrocious 4.6L Mustang V8, which isnt exactly the most efficient. Plus, the marauder was like the weight of the moon, so that translated to 0-60 in 7.7, or about a second slower than my old 1995 STS. sad actually.

But what can't you do to a 4.6 mustang v8???

[audtatious]

too bad it was slow as ****. 300hp was fine, but it came from the atrocious 4.6L Mustang V8, which isnt exactly the most efficient. Plus, the marauder was like the weight of the moon, so that translated to 0-60 in 7.7, or about a second slower than my old 1995 STS. sad actually.

Pretty similar to the mid-90's Impala SS w/5.7L V8. 0-60 in 7.2, 1/4 in 15.4.

[TeflonG35]

Pretty similar to the mid-90's Impala SS w/5.7L V8. 0-60 in 7.2, 1/4 in 15.4.

Yeah they were boats. People are scooping them up around here and throwing ridiculously Big rims on them.

[audtatious]

That or they put on monster exhaust so they are loud as fawk but still can't get anywhere fast.

[heliochrome85]

ha, so the trend finally made it to delaware...

ive been to gary, indiana and detroit, mi. they make iraq look like beverly hills. (with big rims, naturally)

[Sentientbydesign]

please list for me the car brands you admire and why they are not worthless.

Nissan/Infiniti- Most of their line up for the past 15 years has been pretty good. I'm not a big fan of the Sentra/G20 line because it was one of the least reliable from what I've read.

The VQ engine has been award winning for 10+ years and I can think of a few VGs that were diehards as well.

Performance and reliability have always been great.

Toyota/Lexus- Reliability and fuel economy, despite their hybrid system leaving such a huge carbon footprint.

Even the corolla serves a good purpose as a light, fuel saving vehicle that offers a small bit of fun factor.

The Camry lineup also allowed for a comfortable, economical sedan or coupe (solara). I think the Solara became hideous and plastic with it's latest redesign.

I don't like that they followed Ford in supersizing their trucks. From one generation to the next, the Tahcoma turned into the Tundra. And the Tundra because a sub-big rig.

Mazda- I don't know much about them, but I think most of their cars are ugly and have no personality. I respect their rotary heritage, but the amount of fuel that's wasted (yes wasted, not turned into power=wasted) and their emissions made them wrong for our oil climate. I seem to remember them being owned by Furd too which killed it for me. RX8 ain't got nottin on the FCs and FDs.

Mitsubishi- Loved the tear drop eclipses despite being heavy, under powered, and cheap inside. But they looked great for their time and were somewhat affordable. Always wanted a GSX in that gen.

3000GT had a lot going for it, but it too was heavy and should not have had rear seats (just a waste of weight and space).

Them sharing parts with Dodge didn't bring my opinion of them up much. It was a great marketing technique though. They could manufacture the same parts for both the Stratus and Eclipse and get buyers loyal to American made and those who thought only Japanese made quality (seems that Toyota did this or still does).

Subaru- I really want to like their cars. The performance aspect is very respectable as are their FUNCTIONAL hood scoops lol. Reliability seems to be questionable.

I love the fact that their plants are some of the cleanest and their vehicles always rank high in crash tests.

I have to say that they make some of the ugliest cars. I wish they'd get a clue. If they had looks, safety, performance, and small carbon footprints, I could look the other way regarding reliability.

BMW- I've loved their exteriors for a couple decades now. Interiors leave much to be desired. Actually I kind of wanted to puke when I drove the 03 325i and 525i. Everything looked like it was straight from the 70s/80s.

Performance on those two were not anywhere near amazing, ultimate or anything else they claim. I'm going to give them another chance and test drive a few more to see if anything has improved.

Ford- I like their trucks. The one I drove F150 V8 drove like a boat, but hey...it's a truck. I never hear anything bad about their trucks. Everything else about the company...

Volvo- I'm super interested in driving one of their cars. Exterior styling is interesting. The Ford affiliation isn't promising, but we'll see.

Chevy- I like alot of their exterior styling.

[heliochrome85]

Nissan/Infiniti- Most of their line up for the past 15 years has been pretty good. I'm not a big fan of the Sentra/G20 line because it was one of the least reliable from what I've read.

The VQ engine has been award winning for 10+ years and I can think of a few VGs that were diehards as well.

Performance and reliability have always been great.

Have you ever been in a 1998-2001 or 2002-2006 altima? they are disgusting inside. fit is awful, finish is atrocious. As much as i want to say N/I have been fantastic, ive been in /owned a couple of their "malaise era" cars. See: 1998 Q45, 1999 G20, I30

Toyota/Lexus- Reliability and fuel economy, despite their hybrid system leaving such a huge carbon footprint.

Even the corolla serves a good purpose as a light, fuel saving vehicle that offers a small bit of fun factor.

The Camry lineup also allowed for a comfortable, economical sedan or coupe (solara). I think the Solara became hideous and plastic with it's latest redesign.

I don't like that they followed Ford in supersizing their trucks. From one generation to the next, the Tahcoma turned into the Tundra. And the Tundra because a sub-big rig.

Toyota lost their passion for cars when they killed the Supra. Show me one toyota since then that has been worth driving, or has had ANY passion what so ever, and I will concede the point. Also, where exactly is the sporting aspect of the corolla. its like saying, the color of those white walls is very interesting. Sorry, no.

Mazda- I don't know much about them, but I think most of their cars are ugly and have no personality. I respect their rotary heritage, but the amount of fuel that's wasted (yes wasted, not turned into power=wasted) and their emissions made them wrong for our oil climate. I seem to remember them being owned by Furd too which killed it for me. RX8 ain't got nottin on the FCs and FDs.

This i will agree with. They make underappreciated but very good cars. They invented the cheap modern sportscar with the miata. they continue to pay homage to that with their current lineup save the new tribute which is ****eous

Mitsubishi- Loved the tear drop eclipses despite being heavy, under powered, and cheap inside. But they looked great for their time and were somewhat affordable. Always wanted a GSX in that gen.

3000GT had a lot going for it, but it too was heavy and should not have had rear seats (just a waste of weight and space).

Them sharing parts with Dodge didn't bring my opinion of them up much. It was a great marketing technique though. They could manufacture the same parts for both the Stratus and Eclipse and get buyers loyal to American made and those who thought only Japanese made quality (seems that Toyota did this or still does).

Mitsubishi's lineup has been horrendous for almost a decade. Sorry, they are on the cusp of pulling out of the market, thats how bad it is for them. I live in a city of almost 1 million people and I dont really know where their dealer is. And, there is only ONE.

Subaru- I really want to like their cars. The performance aspect is very respectable as are their FUNCTIONAL hood scoops lol. Reliability seems to be questionable.

I love the fact that their plants are some of the cleanest and their vehicles always rank high in crash tests.

I have to say that they make some of the ugliest cars. I wish they'd get a clue. If they had looks, safety, performance, and small carbon footprints, I could look the other way regarding reliability.

I too want to love subaru, but their cars build scares me. ive seen chryslers with better build than late model WRX's and Legacys. Also, why the B9 tribeca? Why oh why did that make the transition to production? URGH.

BMW- I've loved their exteriors for a couple decades now. Interiors leave much to be desired. Actually I kind of wanted to puke when I drove the 03 325i and 525i. Everything looked like it was straight from the 70s/80s.

Performance on those two were not anywhere near amazing, ultimate or anything else they claim. I'm going to give them another chance and test drive a few more to see if anything has improved.

The few times ive driven BMW's, you can immedaitely tell the difference between it and other cars. From the way the steering wheel moves in your hand, to the way the buttons press, to the way the doors close. They are totally different. While I agree, not all of their cars share the same aweinspiring power of the M series, they do share the same suspension geometry and build. BMWs have always been Avant Guard. Thats why you think they have dated interiors. Its because they are not dooing the swoopy crap that MB did (see 2000 S500) , Infiniti does.

Ford- I like their trucks. The one I drove F150 V8 drove like a boat, but hey...it's a truck. I never hear anything bad about their trucks. Everything else about the company...

Im sorry. I want to love Ford, but i cant. When you see how fantastic their foreign products are, and look at the disgusting things they push infront of us and then cry why we arent biting, i cant bring myself to sympthize with the Ford Board of Directors. Things are changing, but why did we have to get the 500/taurus for them to figure it out.

Volvo- I'm super interested in driving one of their cars. Exterior styling is interesting. The Ford affiliation isn't promising, but we'll see.

They pride themselves on being safe. Their styling has been fairly consistent for almost 30 years. For that alone, i cant knock them. I can knock them for having appalling reliability and build. that being said, some of the greatest cars in the world have had terrible build (See Ferrari pre 199..., hell, see all ferrari's ever.)

Chevy- I like alot of their exterior styling. Like most/all of GM, they are turning around. Im looking forward to seeing the streets filled with new Camaros, Challengers, and Mustangs.

[Sentientbydesign]

With regard to Toyota. It's not about passion for driving. It's about serving a purpose RELIABLY. I won't say that I haven't seen some really jacked up Camrys in the past, but I rarely if every see Toyotas die early.

The IS-F hahahahha. No comment.

Toyota and Scion are kind of like Nokia. It's a phone. It's got cute bells a whistle (mostly just flashing LEDs). And an easy to use interface. Want high speed data? How about a large screen? Or any other modern "phone" feature? You're not going to get it. Get a Samsung or a Sanyo or an HTC, but not a Nokia (And STFA from LG!!!). That's Toyota. Serves a purpose for all those unknowing Americans who called my I30 a Camry.

Nissan/Infiniti- They screwed up between 99 and 2003. Really really bad. Most of their lineup was crap. The revised I30 then subsequent I35 were a waste of metal. Slow, ugly, didn't handle worth a damned. I haven' t personally been in a newer altima. The coupes look great because...HEY WAIT...they look like G35s!!! lol.

Nissan shouldn't have ventured so far from the 240sx, 300zx, and Maximas. Those were awesome cars. Kinda still wish I had my I30. LOVED THAT CAR!!!

I agree regarding Mitsubishi. The styling is ugly even on the new EVO The eclipse is a joke, though some on the G forum say that the eclipse can whoop on us (3.8L Mivec). I still love the concept of the EVO.

BMW- Avant Gaurd or not, they still have pukey interiors or did in 03. It doesn't have to be futuristic, just intuitive and pleasing to the eye. The interior of my 96 I30 was better looking and felt better.

[heliochrome85]

WHAT ABOUT THE IPHONEZ?!?!?!?!!?!

just so you know, my iPhone is named Leila. Lola and Leila, what a hot couple.

[audtatious]

I used to be a Toyota guy. Loved my '79 Celica coupe and even the anemic '83 Corolla coupe I had. Both were RWD. I can honestly say I have not cared for any of their products since they got rid of the Supra.

While I can't say I have liked all Nissan products I have had far less problems from them than others. Even the nasty looking '96 Sentra sedan I had was problem free. I find no fault with the I-series of any year as they were the same platform as the Maxima and reliable as hell. Nissan has done a major shakeup of their lineup since 2002 and I'm disappointed with the change of the Maxima from the 4DSC to an old-timers boat. Up until the '09 Maxima the Altima started taking over as 4DSC with the release of the 6th-gen Maxima. Sure, interior finish was not that great on the '02+ altima but it served its purpose with the VQ-powered SE and was not meant to be as nice as the upscale Maxima. At least Nissan has a RWD sports coupe which is more than the other base-level rising-sun alternatives have.

Base-level Ford and GM seem to have been trying to be as successful as Toyota with bland cars. Sure, there is the Mustang and the Vette but for the most part the rest of their lineup is totally bland without the "Toyota reliability". Camaro is going to help GM save some face but while the look is awesome, it's going to get played out pretty quickly. Chrysler has come out with some interesting products over the last 10 years but simply don't have the necessary reliability. They are also helping to push the "60's-era's" look out the door by coming out with their retro-look rides as well. Pontiac is doing a bit better with their styling and seems to be GM's "get it out" line with the now-dead GTO and the release of the G8. Unfortunately, the interesting cars within the GM and Chrysler lineups are going to be hit hard due to current gas prices which effects overall cost of ownership

Mazda has tried with their 3 and 6-series but they don't have a good feel to them (I've had them as rentals). Miata is about the only thing they have going for them as they really missed out on the RX8 by having an anemic motor.

BMW has some nice cars for a premium. But to me they are the "seen one, seen them all" car lineup. One thing I like about BMW is they do not seem to build cars with huge wheel gaps like Nissan and others which gives them a more sporty appearance.

[heliochrome85]

lest you forget the mazdaspeed 3, and to a lesser extent MS6. They were/are hosses with 268hp in such a light package. i love the MS3, but cant love its pepboy looks.

[BigWill]

Hate to rain on the parade, but the Pantera used a Furd engine, and was marketed by Ford/Lincoln/Mercury, but it was manufactured by DeTomaso in Italy.

[heliochrome85]

yeah. elvis once famously took a shotgun to its engine when his wouldnt start. HILARIOUS.