HELP!!! My 240 DIED tonight while driving!

[lbrowne]

guys i'm fearing the worse, and it'll be confirmed once the tow truck gets it here and i can rip off that valve cover.

i was in first gear getting onto a main road, rpms in about 3-4k range, once i started given gas *PONG* dead. just like that.

i tried to start her a couple of times and she just tries to turn over so i gave up. I detected a hint of back fire or some sort of sound when i was trying to start her. so help me god it can't be that timing chain, everything was perfect when i put it in, new chain the works....

i'm near tears here cuz i've started to become so attached to that car. that and also i'm after putting in some good repair hours and money for parts.

what else could make a car die like that instantly other than a timing chain broke. i'm fearing the worse guys. if that chain broke then i spose that means the motor is shot and i'm out of a good lil car.

i almost feel sick to my stomach.

[lbrowne]

UPDATE::

just popped the valve cover off, chain is intact with all the guides, looks perfect.

The car is not leaking anything, theres no smells, no steam or smoke.

Any ideas fellas?

[MaineExport]

Sounds like an ignition system or fuel deivery failure. I'm not sure how that would account for the "PONG" noise... but if it turns and turns and won't ignite... it's usually fuel delivery or ignition. If it was major internal damage... I don't think it would even turn.

[[GoaTSLonG]]

sr20 swap time

[lbrowne]

get this, this is something i have no explanation for. The pong i heard must have been the top adjusting bolt for the distributor...why? cuz it was out of the hole its missing. i was like, wtf?!?! I found it lodged onto my lower front end, caught on a frame rail or something.

So I guess this means my timing is just out of whack? when I turn the key forward I can hear the fuel pump engaging, if it was bad wouldn't I not get any sound at all?

I have a new fuel filter installed long ago.

How can I tell if my distributor is no good? Or would I be looking at the rotor/cap? (bit uneducated in that dept.)

I've taken the top off the distributor, and sanded down the ends of the tips that are on the inside, no luck. when trying to start her a couple of times i held my foot the floor for at least 3-4 seconds, and not once did i get a smell of gas like the car was flooded. (i'm in her garage)

i'm assuming i should have smelt gas, i even got my gf to come out and she couldnt smell any either. But I can hear the fuel pump engage when i click the key forward to the position just before you turn to crank the car.

i can faintly hear a cough while shes trying to start, dunno if thats from the vavle train turnnig over and i'm hearing through the intake open cone or what.

guys this car is going on a 400+ kilometer road trip to the nearest nissan dealership for a recall, i HAVE to get it running very soon.

thanks,

lbrowne

[Nismo_Freak]

Ignition coil?

[Cyberkreig]

not smelling fuel seems odd to me, if the pump is running, and its not leaking. where is it going? But seeing as i dont know how to diagnose fuel, I would start with ignition.

Run a sparkplug wire & sparkplug right off the Coil.. should spark like crazy.. if not, bingo, problem. After that I would do the same thing with every distrib. output.

[lbrowne]

you'd have to put that in laymens terms because i've never done that. she has all new plugs and wires too btw...

i would try it tomorrow if i knew how to go about it, it doesn't sound difficult at all, but i've never done it before...catch my drift?

[DAEDALUS]

He's saying pull a wire off one of the plugs, put a spare good plug in the socket, touch the plug body to part of the frame to ground it, and have someone crank the engine. You should see sparking between the metal plug nodes.As far as the fuel smell, do the injectors shut off if you have the pedal all the way to the floor while cranking it? That's how it is on my car...kind of a back door method of dealing with a flooded engine.

[Cyberkreig]

gotcha, Should have explained it better to begin with. please excuse me if i patronize, but I'll do my best to give a step by step assuming you know nothing.

Ignition coil is mounted on/near the driverside shock tower. You can see it between the airbox and shocktower in the attached image. It runs to the centerpoint of the distributer.

Unhook the wire from the Ign coil. Hook a sparkplug wire directly into the coil, Put a sparkplug in the other end. You should use a spare, as i dont think it is safe to crank the car with a missing sparkplug. get someone to crank the car, the plug should have almost a constant spark. otherwise, you have a bad coil or ignition signal.

Assuming the plug sparks. Plug the coil back in the way it is supposed to be. Then Use this test wire (sparkplug & wire) to test each of the 4 distributer points. By pluging the wire into one location at a time and cranking the car, it should spark.

If everything has gone right so far it is probably fuel, and i cant help you. Good luck!

[DAEDALUS]

I was close. Just FYI, as far as I know the only risk with cranking an engine without plugs is having something (debris, finger, etc) getting sucked into the cylinder. If you ever do a compression test, you should do it with all plugs removed to increase crankshaft speed.

[lbrowne]

Ok so, I really shouldn't have to be concerned with resetting my timing should I?

If I get spark on all distributor conncections and also straight from the coil, does that mean all the ignition is good?

I the fuel pump engages no problem every time i turn the key, would a bad fuel pump not give any sound at all?

When I read about people changing the distributor cap for a new one, is that also considered the rotor? Or did I read something wrong?

I'm at work and its killing me to be here while that car is home not running. But what a sigh of relief when I seen the chain wasn't broke!

EDIT: When I looked at the inside of my distributor cap, the tips inside which look like they used to be round and worn over half through, how big are they to begin with?

thanks guys,

lbrowne

[Cyberkreig]

Ok so, I really shouldn't have to be concerned with resetting my timing should I?

I dont see why the timing would have suddenly changed...Quote »If I get spark on all distributor conncections and also straight from the coil, does that mean all the ignition is good?[/quote]

Yes, the car should ru on even a miserably weak spark..Quote »I the fuel pump engages no problem every time i turn the key, would a bad fuel pump not give any sound at all?[/quote] I'm sorry, I couldnt tell you

Quote »EDIT: When I looked at the inside of my distributor cap, the tips inside which look like they used to be round and worn over half through, how big are they to begin with?[/quote]those contacts wear over time, it will eventualy weaken the spark, thus you need to replace your cap.. But if I were you right now i'd save the money until i knew what MUST be replaced.

[DAEDALUS]

Usually fuel pumps wear out...they don't just fail all of a sudden. But I'll only say that about factory fuel pumps. I wouldn't bet against anything with a crappy aftermarket one.

[lbrowne]

well i do have a fluctuating idle, and last night a couple of times when i came to a stop after accelerating she stalled as i came to a stop.

started up right away no problem, but it was almost as if the fluctuation in idle was too much causing her to stall. only did it twice though, and it happend as i was coming to a stop with the clutch in.

NAPA said they have to know if I got a Mitsubishi or an Hitachi distributor in order to give me the proper distributor parts. All in all, the rotor and cap only come to about 50 bucks Canadian.

I can't even function at work here cuz I'm so anxious to get home to check for spark.

thats what i thought about the fuel pump, that it would show signs of failing, that it wouldn't just die completely and instantly.

[Cyberkreig]

to be honest, this sounds like a dead altinator/Battery to me. Something very similar happend to me in my old toyota, driveing along just fine and the radio turns off.. then *ting* motor stalled and i got it stopped before the intersection..

[JNM240]

IF you turn the key and hear the fuel pump, then it should be ok. If you have spark at all 4 plugs (by removing each one and keeping the plug wire on it and cranking the engine, looking for spark on that plug), then your distributor and ignition system is OK. It worries me that you lost a bolt for the distributor. Is the distributor fully seated into its hole? If there is ANY gap at all, then it might not be connected to the oil pump shaft anymore, but then you would have no spark at all, coil or plugs.

As far as your cap goes, the little terminals start out as half moons, flat on the inner part. So i doubt thats your problem. The rotor is the thing that sits on top of the distributor under the cap held on by 1 10mm bolt. As the distributor spins, the rotor sends the spark to one of the cap towers as it passes.

To check to make 100% sure you are getting gas, remove the fuel line coming off of your fuel filter (right before it gets to the hard line on the left side of your intake manifold) and place it into something that will catch liquids (an empty oil bottle would do great) and crank the engine. You should get a LOT of gas. Standard fuel pressure on our car is 44 PSI. If not, check your fuel pump fuse first (its in the box right near your battery).

Keep us posted, please.

[lbrowne]

the bolt coming off really confuses me. you can't by anymeans move the distributor, its on there solid and looks like it didn't move either. its a very flush fit and it can't spin freely either meaning its still connected to the oil pump shaft. that was one of the first things i checked.

maybe i didn't tighten it down enough when i adjusted its position, letting it back off with engine vibration and once it got close to being out it flicked off. (i was gettin a sound when i first started the car after the timing chain, turned out i never had the distributor back exactly how i took it out so i adjusted it)

I can take one of my old plugs, which would still be working, unplug each wire one at a time from the installed plugs and put the old plug on it and look for spark... do i have to touch it off anything or just hold it up and look at it (by the rubber boot of course! )

i'm going to try that fuel check as well, seems easy enough to do, follow the hose from the top of the fuel filter to where it connects, and then pop it off and into a container..

[lbrowne]

to answer Cyberkreig, it can't be a dead altenator or battery, i know the symptoms of that. everything kept going, my blower on full, my stereo was on, headlights were on. nothing faded in power, nothing dimmed.

even now all accesories come on full force, thats why i figured it wasn't the altenator or battery, thanks for your advice though!

lbrowne

[JNM240]

I wouldnt suggest even holding it by the boot. Just lay it in your strut tower and look at it. You should see spark.

You say it turns over fine but wont crank? Your car has power? Lights, radio? If so then its not your battery and doubtedly your altenator.

If you have battery, fuel, and spark, then it has to be something mechanical. Hopefully its one of those 3, cause they are easier to diagnose.

[DAEDALUS]

Make sure the plug body is grounded whereever you lay it down, preferably to bare body-grounded metal (valve cover?). If you have fuel and spark, my guess would be your spark timing is off, which is what you're already thinking.

[bruinbear714]

1) Is the engine getting fuel? Pull out your plugs and wires and crank the engine a few times.. see if you can smell fuel coming out the holes.

2) If it's getting fuel, is each cylinder getting the spark it needs? Are the sparks timed correctly? I would set the piston to tdc on #1 with the rectangular notch pointing up and see where the distributor rotor is pointing to. It should be around 5oclock.

3) MAF sensor and wiring - your car won't even start and hold idle with this not working.

[MaineExport]

Good call Bruinbear... I still think it is probably ignition or fuel delivery (obvious choices), but the MAFS could very well cause the same symptoms. If it is dirty, not getting enough airflow, or just shot then thec ar will not run... period.

[lbrowne]

UPDATE:

took off coil wire and placed the end next to a grounded piece of the engine, constant spark.

followed the fuel line up from the fuel filter where it goes into the top of the engine, disconnected it there, placed it in a bucket got a friend to turn the key to hear the fual pump engage....gas came out like it was a garden hose with no spray gun on the end.

got him to try cranking the motor, the pressure stayed the same, it woulda took me a while to fill the gallon bucket i had.

i was under the impression that the gas would SHOOT out like there was no tomorrow...cuz this by no means was coming out with any type of pressure.

help help, they got one in stock at NAPA....

[lbrowne]

i went through all the wires coming off the distributor using a good plug, and they all showed spark when grounded against the engine.

i'm running out of ideas, the crank pulley bolt is tight...could it be the rotor is shot? The engine is getting gas, i figured if the pump was bad no gas would come out through that hose...

bruinbear: all my MAF connections are secure, I checked those as well.

Could my rotor be fuct causing it not to sart even though i get spark when i tested the wires from the distributor?

[DAEDALUS]

You've got spark; are you sure the spark timing is correct? Timing light, timing light, timing light. You gotta ask around and get your hands on one. At least you'll know for sure one way or the other. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you could turn the key to "on" and turn the crankshaft manually (disconnect all plug wires first) and see if the #1 plug wire sparks about 15 degrees before TDC on the compression stroke.

[DAEDALUS]

A bit late for the silly questions...did you check all your fuses and fusible links? Your pump works, but what about the injectors? Are they controlled directly by the ECU and is the injector fuse OK?

[lbrowne]

ok but, a garage i spoke to said that from the sounds of it my pump is toast. they said sure it could send fuel at about 15 psi but it needs to be at least around the 40 psi mark.

this was a garage that i really trust, the only one i trust in town. but from what i've indicated, is the results i got for checking my fuel delivery correct?

i think i can get my hands on a timing light, i guess i would know for sure then. would i just get someone to crank the engine continuously while i point the light at the crank (can you tell i've NEVER used one? )

i really do think my spark timing could be off. does this mean i have to put the sprockets to TDC again, and make sure the rotor points to about 5 o'clock..

[DAEDALUS]

*Usually* if the pump is weak, and if it is the only problem, a car will have enough fuel to start up, just not enough to keep going. Fuel rail has more pressure right at start-up than when it's running. Not saying they're wrong...without a fuel pressure gauge you only know that, at worst, your pump is delivering some amount of fuel. If you think the fuel pump is going out then that's a real bummer cause they aren't cheap. If you need a new one spend the extra money and get a factory one cause it will last longer.

[lbrowne]

I'm pretty sur eI can get a timing light, can ya give me a quick run-through on what to do with it other than point it into my eyes and make a 'duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh' sound?

And also, where to I hook up a fuel line pressure checker to get an accurate reading, at the spot where i unplugged the fuel line where it went into the top of the engine, straight from the fuel filter?

i'm going to turn her to tdc by having the keyways pointing straight up, and then check to make sure the distributor is point to number 1.