HELP!!! My 240 DIED tonight while driving!

[DAEDALUS]

Hook the light up to your battery with the alligator clips. There's an inductive pick-up that you clip around the #1 plug wire. Some lights have a built in advance...if it does the set it to 15 degrees before TDC. Have someone crank the car in a dim area, point the light at the pulley, and pull the trigger. The light will fire every time the plug fires. Like a strobe light, you should see where the timing marks on the pulley line up relative to the timing cover mark. Should be almost dead-nuts if there's built in advance. If there's no built-in advance, then the light should fire as the pulley mark is approaching the timing cover mark...again, roughly 15 degrees before. Just be careful with all those wires; don't get them caught up in the belts or the fan.You can T off from any point on the fuel line to check the pressure; the entire fuel rail past the filter should be at the same pressure, so just past the filter is a good spot. Careful with all that fuel! Keep yourself grounded to the frame at all times if the weather's dry.

[lbrowne]

i went to price a fuel pressure checker, 60 bucks at crappy tire. i have an ANCIENT timing light here, one with a spring end where you put on end on the plug top, and then the plug wire on the other end.

i have an appointment for this friday for a shop to look at it, because the amount of money i would spend in tools would cover what they would charge for the hour to troubleshoot her.

i've had a few people say that the fuel pump more than likely the culpirt because it doesn't matter if its sending *some* fuel. if its not at least a certain amount of psi it ain't gunna go. i think i read somewhere it has to be at 45 psi for the 240sx.

tonight i'm going to turn her to tdc, check my spark timing, and i got a compression tester to check my compression. might as well i spose.

do i just take out the plug, plug the tool in, crank her and get out and look at what it reads? or do i need someone to crank her while i watch the gauge...

[bruinbear714]

Quote »But I can hear the fuel pump engage when i click the key forward to the position just before you turn to crank the car.[/quote]

I know this sounds like it's insulting your intelligence, but did you check if the fuses are all still good, that the car has enough oil, and that the oil is circulating through the system? What about the timing chain? Are the shiney links still lined up correctly? Is the tensioner still in place?

If a pump is about to go bad and you still get pressure in the rail, it should be enough to at least sustain an idle on the engine. Maybe your fuel pressure regulator is bad?

Or you could have a loose vacuum line that got dislodged while you were driving.

[lbrowne]

bruinbear: being that i'm in the IT industry and I'm fairly knowledgeable with it, when i talk to certain people about things i too have to make sure i ask certain questions, even though it may sound like i was being insulting....so i do not take your comments in vain

she has good oil and my timing chain is perfect but i think i've found the problem.

all the plugs were wet with gas after i tried to crank her, so fuel was getting in. eliminated the fuel pump at this point. i get spark from everything, eliminated plugs, wires and coil

now i just had my gf watch the sprocket with the silver links as i cranked the engine from underneath till she lined up to TDC. keyway pointing straight up, dot pointing to 3 o'clock with the silver link on it. (i had the plugs removed)

i took the top off the distributor and it is pointing to number 2, or 7 o'clock so to speak. not #1 which is 5 o'clock.

so i guess my rotor is screwed, so for just under 50 bucks i can change my cap and rotor and thats what i'll do tomorrow.

i've never done this so how to i get it to line up? i would need some help here....and you've guys have brought me through thick n thin.

ps: what would cause the rotor to do that? just went bad? the car did sit for over a year+...so i'm thinking it just deterioated (sp?) over that time and from the extensive driving i've been doing the last little while it failed.

i hope i never washed down my engine....but after hauling out the dipstick, its a nice clean oil...nuthin runny...

[bruinbear714]

bruinbear: being that i'm in the IT industry and I'm fairly knowledgeable with it, when i talk to certain people about things i too have to make sure i ask certain questions, even though it may sound like i was being insulting....so i do not take your comments in vain

she has good oil and my timing chain is perfect but i think i've found the problem.

all the plugs were wet with gas after i tried to crank her, so fuel was getting in. eliminated the fuel pump at this point. i get spark from everything, eliminated plugs, wires and coil

now i just had my gf watch the sprocket with the silver links as i cranked the engine from underneath till she lined up to TDC. keyway pointing straight up, dot pointing to 3 o'clock with the silver link on it. (i had the plugs removed)

i took the top off the distributor and it is pointing to number 2, or 7 o'clock so to speak. not #1 which is 5 o'clock.

so i guess my rotor is screwed, so for just under 50 bucks i can change my cap and rotor and thats what i'll do tomorrow.

i've never done this so how to i get it to line up? i would need some help here....and you've guys have brought me through thick n thin.

ps: what would cause the rotor to do that? just went bad? the car did sit for over a year+...so i'm thinking it just deterioated (sp?) over that time and from the extensive driving i've been doing the last little while it failed.

i hope i never washed down my engine....but after hauling out the dipstick, its a nice clean oil...nuthin runny...

There you go. That's your problem right there. If you lined up the crank and cam correctly as you said above, the rotor (side with the metal piece) SHOULD BE POINTING TO 5OCLOCK, which is around the vicinity of the #1 spark plug wire connection.

I don't see how the distributor shaft could have jumped like that, unless the worm gear or shaft itself has been eating or worn out.

[Cyberkreig]

Sounds like good news, Maybe when that screw came off the Distrib just got wrenched out of position? Someone correct me if i'm wrong.. but if the car is at #1 TDC, and the Distrib is at #2, all he has to do is take the D out, spin it to #1 and put it back in. When you do that (if i am correct) be sure to set it one tooth back from where it "should" be. You'll see that when you slide it in it will advance to teh right spot.

[bruinbear714]

Sounds like good news, Maybe when that screw came off the Distrib just got wrenched out of position? Someone correct me if i'm wrong.. but if the car is at #1 TDC, and the Distrib is at #2, all he has to do is take the D out, spin it to #1 and put it back in. When you do that (if i am correct) be sure to set it one tooth back from where it "should" be. You'll see that when you slide it in it will advance to teh right spot.

I don't remember if you can just pull out the distributor, rotate and reinsert. The way I did it was remove oil pump, line up the markings, re-insert carefully and check to see if it was pointing to the #1 spark plug connector. You can rotate the distributor left or right about 15 degrees to adjust timing, but not more than 60 degrees in this case. You CAN do it, but the screw holes will not line up and you won't be able to screw the distributor down to keep it from moving around.

[lbrowne]

how in god's name did that happen? i was thinking maybe it was the rotor that failed and moved it.

the shaft of the oil pump and the distributor were connected together perfectly, and even now the distributor doesn't turn freely. i'm sorry but it would be physically impossible unless theres something with the shaft broken. Which is not going to be cool i assume.

so how do i go about fixing this? i was going to go and purchase a cap and rotor tomorrow, but i should i take that distributor out? Will I have to to change the rotor? I would think so....

[DAEDALUS]

i have an appointment for this friday for a shop to look at it, because the amount of money i would spend in tools would cover what they would charge for the hour to troubleshoot her.

i've had a few people say that the fuel pump more than likely the culpirt because it doesn't matter if its sending *some* fuel. if its not at least a certain amount of psi it ain't gunna go. i think i read somewhere it has to be at 45 psi for the 240sx.

tonight i'm going to turn her to tdc, check my spark timing, and i got a compression tester to check my compression. might as well i spose.

do i just take out the plug, plug the tool in, crank her and get out and look at what it reads? or do i need someone to crank her while i watch the gauge...

Think of your tools as a fixed cost and shop time as a recurring cost. Your tools will serve you every time you need them; a shop will take your money every time you need them. Don't get me wrong; I maybe had 2 screwdrivers and a Swiss Army knife when I was in college. Just something to consider later when you have more money and time than you do now.

If your crank/cam timing is correct, bad cylinder compression is practically never the problem. Cars will still fire on 3 good cylinders, and cylinders pretty much never go bad all at the same time. If you ever need to do a compression check, remove all plugs and pull the fuel pump fuse. The tool threads into the cylinders. Most tools have a one-way valve that records the pressure until you release it, allowing a one-person diagnosis.

[lbrowne]

ok, thanks for letting me know i probably still will doa compression check. but now with my new findings of the rotor giving the wrong spark order, i need to know whats involved to get her back in order.

do i have to remove the oil pump again? or just repair the rotor and put back?

EDIT/UPDATE: I removed the distributor before I went to work this morning, theres no teeth broke, the half moons are still intact with no signs of stress, they look like when I had taken it apart to do my timing chain, no defects visible. Is it something in the rotor that caused this?

thanks,

lbrowne

[lbrowne]

Could it be those gears that are on the crankshaft stem that comes out that spins the gear on the oil pump shaft? if those are worn a bit would that cause it? I put the one that cam off the crank back on exactly the way it came off, well theres not really a way to screw that one up

i'm running out of time fellas....

[JNM240]

You need to reset your engine back to TDC, pull the oil pump, realign the match marks on the oil pump shaft and oil pump, reinstall that, then make SURE the distributor is at #1 and reinstall that. Somehow they came out of timing. Your rotor is bolted to the distributor shaft. It CAN NOT turn without the distributor turning, so your distributor is off.

The only other thing i can suggest is to recheck your FSM to see if you got all the little washers and stuff under the crank pulley on correctly. If one of them is misplaced that may have caused your problem. IIRC you have a FSM, if not let me know and i will scan the page and post it.

[lbrowne]

I'm afraid of lining that stuff up and this thing bounce out of timing again. I put everything back so exactly, is it possible it was a fluke problem? (I highly doubt)

my biggest conern is just that, resetting her and having it happen again. if my crank was *slightly* off the mark when i put the chain on, even though the keyways lined up, and the dots on the sprockets were exact and matching with a silver link....is there something that still could have caused it?

i would assume that if anyhing was misaligned she wouldn't start or, she would and just run horribly...

[bruinbear714]

Did you keep tension on the right side of the chain when you were lining up the shiney links on the sprocket dots?

IE, the chain slack should be on the left side, where the tensioner will tighten up. If there was slack, then the chain will jump teeth to tighten up.

[lbrowne]

i can't remember exactly how i got the chain on other than i put the guides on i put the tensioner in place, i pulled the pin and whammo it was all tight.

that chain is on there REALLY snug, theres no way that hopped a tooth without breaking anything. (i verified all teeth are on the upper sprocket, no cracks or cracked teeth either) also, how can i have her right now with the keyways facing up, my dot on the top sprocket facing 3 oclock with a silver link on it...if the chain jumped a tooth? i sincerely doubt it hopped back....but will it line up again after so many revolutions?

tension is tension, if i had everything lined up silver links on their marks, and set the tensioner, how is going to be loose in certain parts?

what i might do is reset her, see if she fires up, then bring it down to the shop to have the timing set dead on....

[lbrowne]

bruinbear: what is the worm gear...is that the gear thats on the oil pump that runs with the crank gear thing? they're like a beige-ish colour....

i think i'm going to go abck to the basics, the fact that the adjusting bolt of the distributor was out, ain't right. i've been driving the car extensively for 4 days when this happened, enough time for that bolt to back out, and then when i had her iat a higher rpm in first gear maybe the distributor snapped in a certain direction driving her timing out?

i'm lining her back up, leaving work early, gettin that done see if she starts...

[lbrowne]

is it possible my car would still function and drive no problem if i had my crank off a few degrees from my cam? remember, i drove this car for about 5 days straight, easy for the first few miles and then a little spiritedly at times to get her working...

i called a nissan mechanic, even he was confused as to why it happened, and would like to see the car. at first he was saying that it was the guides and that the chain probably jumped. but when i told him there was a new kit on there and the chain was snug he said, so she wont start after? and i said i was after drivin her for 4-5 days no sweat, no trouble. i wish i had a nissan dealership in town, that would be awesome

this is just great...

[lbrowne]

shes gettin towed tonight to the shop and they'll be working on her tomorrow.

i took out the oil pump, lined it back up, put it in and reset the distributor. with the keyways pointing up and the silver link on the 3 o'clock, the crank pulley is positioned on the timing needle between the last 2 notches on the far right....so i don' think thats good.

well, she started and ran for about 10 seconds stumbled and died. so i think its a timing issue that the shop can fix tomorrow.

[DAEDALUS]

Sorry you had to take her in. When it ran, did it run ok at first? If so, then that could have been due to the low fuel pressure previously reported. Hope all works out well for you.

[lbrowne]

well she did run ok, went to a higher rpm for a sec and started to die down then she stuttered and quit. wouldn't start after that.

at least the shop has the proper tools to do the job. tonight its going to -50 degrees Celcius, so yeah even in a small heated garage it gets cold

[JNM240]

Man dude im sorry. The shop is the nightmare for the home mechanic such as myself. Its like admiting defeat. You could always tow it down here and work on with me! Its 60 degrees (but raining) in Louisiana!

Hopefully what happened is you reset the timing correctly, but still have a fuel pump problem. When my pump went out it would die and not crank for hours on end. Then i would give up and come out the next morning and it would start fine and run for a while, then die. Hopefully all it is now is a fuel pump.

[DAEDALUS]

That's what I'm thinking too.

[lbrowne]

well heres what i found out last night, when i had her lined up for TDC, the little needle sticking out from the engine was inbetween the last 2 marks on the crank pulley on the far right side. (closer to the last mark...)

if i was quick enough to get out and adjust the distributor while she was running, i probably coulda fixed it.

either way she is in capable hands (hopefully ) but yeah its almost like admitting defeat. but in a way i know they should be able to set her right, and its the piece of mind i want. when i was putting in the bolts for the oil pump last night i lost feeling in my hands it was that cold....so you get the pciture

[JNM240]

Ok, im just DYING from the suspense! What was wrong with your car? Did you get it fixed? It she running again? Let us know what happened!!!

[lbrowne]

they're going to haul the timing cover off, i think i may have knocked that crank a few degrees off from its original position. they're pretty certain thats what it is, so they are just going to line everything back up to whatever is the best setting...i guess 0?

but yeah they're pretty sure they'll have it back to me tomorrow.

[ninjak84]

Hey man, sorry to hear about your ride....I'm in Alberta as well though, glad to see more of us here!

[lbrowne]

I found out today its a broken Oil Pump drive gear and main drive gear (the one thats on the end of the crank) easy to replace once shes apart.

so somehow those didn't jive when i had her back together, and eventually led to them to breaking apart or stripping or whatever they do.

the oil pump one did look more worn when i took it out last when i was checking everything, more than when i had first removed it, but i wasn't sure.

so they are waiting on a quote from nissan for those 2 parts. i'll be just glad to get her back together.

[lbrowne]

got her back today and shes running good the oil pump drive gear and the corresponding crank gear were worn away.

i ended up paying more for the repairs than i did for the car, but thats not hard to do when i only paid 500 Canadian for it

With that though, they did all new coolant, oil change n filter, and replaced all seals they encountered during the repair.

just so that you guys know how things ended up

[Queamore]

Cool glad you got it working good thing that they told you what happend alot of places won't. Now you not only have a fixed car but you have good experience and knowledge about problems like that. Thats worth more than tools. So you gonna celebrate. I would (and have).