Help me plan my 350whp build :)

[Mushiki]

Hi everyone,

I recently aquired a CA18DET powered 200SX, it's in great shape -- completely stock, un-molested.

Some pictures...









Now, I would love if you guys could help me with my project -- I wish to get 350whp+ out of this baby.

I have some ideas, and many doubts... I've searched, got many answers, but I also want to get some opinions

Here's what I have in mind, at the moment:

- GT2871R Turbo -- but which one specifically, would you people recommend?- Equal Lengh Turbo Manifold -- are de eBay ones decent?- FMIC -- I heard those eBay ones aren't that bad... or are they?- Tial 38mm Wastegate- HKS SSQV BOV- 720cc Injectors- Tomei PonCams 256/256- Tomei Cam Gears- 3" Exhaust- APEXi AVC-R Boost Controller- AEM Wideband- HKS Turbo Timer- Some heavy duty clutch + flywheel -- any recommendations?

Now, some of my questions:

- Should I get a custom intake manifold?- What throttle body should I get?- What about ignition? Is stock CA18DET ignition good enough?- Which standalone EMS would you recommend?- Which headgasket?- I assume I should get a Z32 MAF, right?- What about the fuel pump, Walbro 255 is good enough?- Are the 256 PonCams good enough for my goals? Should I also get springs and retainers?- Will I need an aftermarket Fuel-Rail?

If you think that I am missing something, please let me know

Any feedback/information you can give me will be greatly appreciated

Thank you for your time!

-D
Modified by Mushiki at 9:21 AM 9/23/2009

[Ca_Silvia]

You never mention anything about what type of managment system you were planning to use. Start there.

get the .86 2871ROEM gaskets are best just remember to use ARP or high quality head boltsSearch about the exhaust manifoldAll BOVs need to be recirculated on the CAStock ignition may cause you issues at that amount of power. You may have to go external coil (search, lots of info about this)walbro 255 is fineIf you are doing cams, you might as well do spring and retainers/valve seals etcOEM intake manifold is fine for that amount of power, i reccomend removing the complete butterfly system.You may also have transmission issues depending on how used yours is with that much power.

Have you ever been in a 350whp s13? s*** is serious business for DD.

Good luck!

[boost_boy]

You never mention anything about what type of managment system you were planning to use. Start there.

Actually, he asked for advice on which standalone to use (see questions). To the OP: How much money are you willing to spend? $350whp is going to cost and how much depends on who's setting it up for you. There are cheaper engine management systems out there, but be prepared to spend upwards of $1200U.S. for a better built unit. Tuning is also another thing.

Dee

[Mushiki]

Actually, he asked for advice on which standalone to use (see questions). To the OP: How much money are you willing to spend? $350whp is going to cost and how much depends on who's setting it up for you. There are cheaper engine management systems out there, but be prepared to spend upwards of $1200U.S. for a better built unit. Tuning is also another thing.

Dee

I don't plan on it being a cheap or half-assed build -- but I also don't want to waste money or over-do it, that's why I am asking for advice

[ca18detgabby]

the stock exhaust mani should be good for 350.... least it seems to result in better power than the Ebay deals.

might consider a T3/T4 or GT30 instead and an ebay top mount mani....

[Mushiki]

the stock exhaust mani should be good for 350.... least it seems to result in better power than the Ebay deals.

So... the stock exhaust manifold is better than SSAC ones?

might consider a T3/T4 or GT30 instead and an ebay top mount mani....

Wouldn't a GT30R be a bit too big? GT2871R isn't enough for 350whp?

[Mushiki]

Just added one more question:

- Will I need an aftermarket Fuel-Rail?

[Margus]

Engine management - MS1/2 ver3, VEMS, KMSFuel rail - stockTurbo - T3/T04E 50 trim .48 or .63ar 400whp ~650$

So... the stock exhaust manifold is better than SSAC ones?

YES, but I recomend costum ex. mani, thees bling- bling ones are no good.

[Mushiki]

Engine management - MS1/2 ver3, VEMS, KMSFuel rail - stockTurbo - T3/T04E 50 trim .48 or .63ar 400whp ~650$

So, a T3/T04E would be better suited for my goals?

[Buddyworm]

http://digi-hardware.com/ns/s13highmount.gif

Win!

[bentvalves]

I think you would be very happy with a t3/to4e 50trim as suggested above, but you need to look into it a bit more. After playing the ball bearing turbo game for the past few years, and after driving my friends journal bearing turbo'd SRs I think its clear to me what my next turbo will be.

[Mushiki]

I think you would be very happy with a t3/to4e 50trim as suggested above, but you need to look into it a bit more. After playing the ball bearing turbo game for the past few years, and after driving my friends journal bearing turbo'd SRs I think its clear to me what my next turbo will be.

I see... so, considering the power goals I am aiming, what are my (best) options?

[Mushiki]

Any more feedback? Anyone?

[Rookieca18det]

I have a 3071r (.63) and love it. nice spool and good power, funny enough i might get tuned this weekend (finally...) and i can let you know the results. My power goal is similar to yours, I am aiming for 400ish... we will see.

- stock ignition system

- 720's

-gt3071r

-custom top mount

-tial 44 wastgate

-profec b

-z32 maf

-tomei cam gears (waiting on shafts still..grr)

-cp forged pistons (stock compression)

-emanage blue

[sjbsuperman1425]

let me ask this..

what are you going to use the 350whp for? Drifting, Drag, "highway runs" hehe..where do you want to make all the power. there are alot of different ways to get 350whp but the setup can be different and make the power differently.

[float_6969]

Stock exhaust mani, get it extrude honed http://www.gethoned.com/ with the .86 2871r.

I'd push towards an SDS for standalone, but Megasquirt and Nistune would be my other options as well. I've messed with all 3 and the SDS is still the easiest to tune, while the other 2 are about the same as far as how easy they are to tune. The Nistune is by far the easiest to install though, with the SDS a close second.

Custom intake isn't necessary at your power level. But the UK guys seem to think that much over that level and you will start wanting to plan for an intake manifold.

KA24 Throttle body is a common upgrade. It gives great throttle response, and bolts up. Depending on which one you use, you may have to cut off the coolant ports. Not anything to worry about as most ppl delete them anyway.

I can't comment on the stock ignition system at that power level, but if I had to guess, you'll at least have to reduce the gap on the plugs, if not replace the coils.

Stock Nissan or Felpro headgaskets are fine at that power level. They have been proven to 500hp.

If you go with the SDS or the MegaSquirt, you won't need the MAFS.

Walbro 255 is fine.

Get the PonCams, they're great for your power level, but DON'T get the gears if you get the PonCams. The PonCams are pre-indexed. That means that whatever timing changes you would need with the gears have already been built into them. That is the difference between the PonCams and the ProCams. You don't need any other valve train parts with those cams or power levels.

The stock fuel rail is fine at that power level.

[Mushiki]

Thank you very much for your feedback, float!

[float_6969]

np

[bentvalves]

why do you prefer the 84 housing over the 63? Is it theoretical assumption, or trial and error expereince that has lead you to that conclusion.

[float_6969]

From what I've seen, I don't think he'll hit 350whp w/the .63. I do not have any first hand experience with it though.

I assume your concern is the extra lag with the .86, and I thought about that, and that was why I recommended having the stock manifold extrude honed. This should help counteract the larger AR on the turbine housing and still allow him to hit his power goals.

I will say this though, if the OP didn't seem dead set on 350whp+, I would stick with the extrude honed stock mani and run the .63 housing. I don't think he'd hit 350whp, but I think it would make for a very responsive and powerful setup.

[Mushiki]

So, a honed stock manifold is better suited than a equal lengh manifold?

[sjbsuperman1425]

now if one opted to use the stock manifold and honed it out, the SR exhaust would not be bolt up anymore (would hit frame rail), wouldn't you just need the CA18 O2 housing to bolt up the SR downpipe without contacting the frame rail? Does anybody even sell actual CA18 O2 Housings anymore to make this work?

[mbmbmb23]

now if one opted to use the stock manifold and honed it out, the SR exhaust would not be bolt up anymore (would hit frame rail), wouldn't you just need the CA18 O2 housing to bolt up the SR downpipe without contacting the frame rail? Does anybody even sell actual CA18 O2 Housings anymore to make this work?

How does smoothing out the inside of the CA exhaust manifold not make the SR exhaust no longer fit?

[sjbsuperman1425]

the CA stock manifold sits at an angle compared to the CA tubular manifolds. the angle of the stock manifold used with a SR O2 Housing and downpipe, the downpipe will hit the frame rail.

i guess i wasn't clear in my question.

[dash]

couldn't one just hit up the dyno page on sxoc or nico, for proven combos ?Lots of hot CAs in that range on ns.com also.

For example, from memory;YCA18T used a GT28RS/0.64 ~20psi? dyno'd 244wkw (~330whp?). CA16DE inlet cam. Full boost ~3600rpm, custom mapped nistune iirc (but lots on 300+ mail-order tunes).car went 11.93 @115mph on Mickey thompson ET Street Drag radials. Ever drove an 11sec 4cyl ? He did run a stainless manifold and eliminated butterflies in the intake manifold tho.I personally would stick with stock exh mani, keep the flaps, sort your tuning, & try out 300+. ...and if ya must,for 350 I'd go 720s + t3/t4 + shorty header (cast elbows)... 400, more boost... 450+, cams

what's so special about this "350" number ?

[Mushiki]

couldn't one just hit up the dyno page on sxoc or nico, for proven combos ?Lots of hot CAs in that range on ns.com also.

For example, from memory;YCA18T used a GT28RS/0.64 ~20psi? dyno'd 244wkw (~330whp?). CA16DE inlet cam. Full boost ~3600rpm, custom mapped nistune iirc (but lots on 300+ mail-order tunes).car went 11.93 @115mph on Mickey thompson ET Street Drag radials. Ever drove an 11sec 4cyl ? He did run a stainless manifold and eliminated butterflies in the intake manifold tho.I personally would stick with stock exh mani, keep the flaps, sort your tuning, & try out 300+. ...and if ya must,for 350 I'd go 720s + t3/t4 + shorty header (cast elbows)... 400, more boost... 450+, cams

what's so special about this "350" number ?

Thank you for your input Dash

Regarding the "350" number, their isn't anything special, I just thought that setting a goal would be useful.

[mbmbmb23]

the CA stock manifold sits at an angle compared to the CA tubular manifolds. the angle of the stock manifold used with a SR O2 Housing and downpipe, the downpipe will hit the frame rail.

i guess i wasn't clear in my question.

Well....from what i could tell we were talking about honing the stock manifold....which....in no way would affect the O2 housing or exhaust fitment....CA or SR. Honing is removing material from the inside of the exhaust housing to smooth out the exhaust flow and get rid of jagged raised welds or casting marks that see excess uneven heat due to their sticking up and create fatigued/cracking welds due to this heat.

[float_6969]

No, if you get the cheap O2 housings that are designed to be used with the tubular manifolds and use them with the stock housing, it will hit the frame rail.

Regardless, any competent exhaust shop could fix the problem in less than an hour.

OP, if you're not stuck on 350whp, I really think you should try for 300whp and see what you think about it first. A 300whp S13 is a pretty fast car by anybody's book. You won't beat everything on the street, but it's a lot of power and a lot of fun!

If you could settle for a 300hp setup, I'd say FMIC, S15 SR20 T28 turbo, 3" turbo back exhaust, cai (this would have to be custom), Z32 MAFS, 550CC injectors, 255lph walbro, and a Norris Stage 3 chip.

That is a tried and true combo that will yeild you very close to 300whp, and makes for a very responsive setup, that has good power and is a blast to drive.

[Nyborg Garage]

If you are going to buy cams i would not bother with the pon-cams. I would atleast go with 260degrees and 8.8mm lift, but honestly i would go for a solid 260 degree cam with 10.25mm lift. Or maybee even 270 degree if you dear to rev it 800-1000rpm past the stock limit. If you can't afford "proper" cams just go with two exhaust cams, adjustable camgears, and get them adjusted on the dyno (on a DOHC engine you can "adjust" the hp/torq curve quite a bit with adjusting the overlap)

You will reach your goal some how, it just a matter of how good the torq curve will look/feel, and how much boost you need.

For turbo i would go for a gt3071r with stock (if possible?) or a custom manifold.

I would also go for injectors big enough for 400whp on E85, and run NIStune engine management. Z32 or bigger AFM is "a must have" on a propper settup.

[Mushiki]

If you are going to buy cams i would not bother with the pon-cams. I would atleast go with 260degrees and 8.8mm lift, but honestly i would go for a solid 260 degree cam with 10.25mm lift. Or maybee even 270 degree if you dear to rev it 800-1000rpm past the stock limit. If you can't afford "proper" cams just go with two exhaust cams, adjustable camgears, and get them adjusted on the dyno (on a DOHC engine you can "adjust" the hp/torq curve quite a bit with adjusting the overlap)

So, which cams would you recommend, and what other valvetrain parts should I also get?

For turbo i would go for a gt3071r with stock (if possible?) or a custom manifold.

Regarding turbos, people have mentioned the following already:

- GT2871R .86- GT3071R .63- T3/T04E 50 trim .63

Pros/Cons of each?