Hello 60 Seats!

[HashiriyaS14]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITI...yview

Not much else to say about this, everyone knows the potential implications. This is BIG news.

[marlin29311]

I think it's absolute garbage - you should not be able to switch your views midway through a term. You've not only changed the political layout of the hill, but you've also basically just told everyone that voted for you "hey, just kidding!" and completely turned your back on them, who you are supposed to be working for.

This simple thing makes me more angry than all the other garbage that goes on

[480sx]

Political strategy. Hes tryen to stay in power.

Big news indeed.

[WDRacing]

It is big news, but not really detrimental IMO. The Dems are going to get what they want passed through no matter where that dude sits. The people that elected that dude are for the most part, IMO, not to bright. Chances are they are educated by the media like 90% of this country and have no idea what their opinion is until it's given to them.

This guys switched because he says the GOP went to far right. I happen to agree with him. We need people that will make the right choices. As far as I'm concerned, this is a great step in saying F U to party politics. I don't care if it helps out the Libs or not, any step is a good step at this point.

I have never had less faith in any system then I do our own Gov.

WD

[audtatious]

Good. The Dems can ignore the Republicans and take the credit for everything they are pushing for and are implementing.

[telcoman]

Good. The Dems can ignore the Republicans and take the credit for everything they are pushing for and are implementing.

Matt

Well who else would get the credit?

Certainly not the bunch in power over the past eight years.

Will the last republican please turn out the lights in their headquarters

http://voices.washingtonpost.c...pnews

I wonder if O'Reilly will report this story tonight or will he rehash Miss California again for the umteeth time?

You'll now have to excuse me while I go continue the happy dance as the republicans continue sliding out of existence.

Telcoman

[szh]

Good. The Dems can ignore the Republicans and take the credit for everything they are pushing for and are implementing.

Hello, dictatorship ....

Z

[HashiriyaS14]

The real big threats from this are that DC will somehow be given (perpetually Democratic) Senate representation or that the Dems will switch to a Presidential Popular vote. The latter would, in effect, keep a Republican from ever being elected President again.

I'm happy to see this and not at the same time. There are some big initiatives that I want to see pushed through, but at the same time, I don't want them to be at the cost of all political discourse in America.

Luckily, if the Dems ever evolved into some sort of singular super-majority, there would inevitably be a split between Euro-liberals and Blue Dogs, and we'd be back to square 1. The social conservatives would be left in the cold......but that's fine.

[JustinStrife]

Matt

Well who else would get the credit?

Certainly not the bunch in power over the past eight years.

Will the last republican please turn out the lights in their headquarters

http://voices.washingtonpost.c...pnews

I wonder if O'Reilly will report this story tonight or will he rehash Miss California again for the umteeth time?

You'll now have to excuse me while I go continue the happy dance as the republicans continue sliding out of existence.

Telcoman

The Democrats have controlled Congress since 2006 where have you been? Spectre was a Democrat before he was a Republican(it's always been whatever got him the votes he needed and the financial backing). He's been supporting the liberal bills for years, so the only thing new, is he now has a (D) instead of an (R) before his name(which is what he always was).

Was a great ride America, but the convicts in charge are going to enjoy the collapse.

The good news is, a few more Rhinos kicked to the curb might get the Republican Party to go back to it's conservative grass roots, and not the Democratic-lite that it has become the past 10+ years.

[WDRacing]

Gotta disagree with ya...

The last thing we need is more right wing conservatism in this country. And I'm conservative...

[Urabus GodofTraction]

Gotta disagree with ya...

The last thing we need is more right wing conservatism in this country. And I'm conservative...

Depends on your definition of right wing conservatism.

We need LEGIONS of right wing conservatives. We need less of the Republican party's religious "core."

[HashiriyaS14]

We need LEGIONS of right wing conservatives. We need less of the Republican party's religious "core."

^^+1

The GOP's ability or inability to extricate the social zealots from it's ranks while still maintaining respectable membership numbers will determine the fate of conservatism in America.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

^^+1

The GOP's ability or inability to extricate the social zealots from it's ranks while still maintaining respectable membership numbers will determine the fate of conservatism in America.

Of the GOP in America. Parties have died before.

That said, 2012 will be THE election for a GOP civil war. The Democrats will not have any public support, so splitting the GOP will not, unlike normally, guarantee an Dem victory.

[HashiriyaS14]

Of the GOP in America. Parties have died before.

That said, 2012 will be THE election for a GOP civil war. The Democrats will not have any public support, so splitting the GOP will not, unlike normally, guarantee an Dem victory.

I disagree. I think that, substantially, the fate of conservatism is tied directly to the Republican Party. The GOP is and has been an odd coalition of a number of otherwise-disparate groups (Southern whites, western libertarians, coastal capitalists, etc). No one faction within the GOP has the numbers to ever be a governing coalition on it's own, so if this coalition (i.e. the GOP) were to fall apart entirely, these groups would all be marginalized out of government by the huge and much more h0mogenous left. The left is fractured also, but far less so.

I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that the Dems will have zero public support in 2012. They may potentially add seats in both houses yet AGAIN in 2010, it is far more likely than not given any data that is available today.

The fact of the matter is that the Dems have the voting numbers to back up their big-spending agenda. There are lots and lots of educated white liberals, minorities, and other demographics out there who are 100% A-OK with 3+ trillion dollar budgets, nationalized health care, and so on. These people aren't *ever* going to get turned off to this stuff, they've been asking for it for years. These people will not be swayed to fiscal conservatism, they don't feel at all misled by Obama, they're getting just what they wanted. Railing against big and bloated government and high taxes isn't going to convert these people into conservative voters, as most of them make very little money OR make plenty but are comfortable paying half of it to the government to maintain a Euro-style welfare state.

Instead, conservatives' only avenue is to round up the same old coalition they've used for the last three decades. The only problem with this is that this coalition is badly fractured and dropping in headcount as the country generally becomes less white and less rural.

I'm not sure what the solution is then, for American conservatives. I don't see ANY solution that would involve the same GOP coalition ever governing again in the short term. I could *perhaps* see western Libertarians and capitalists allying themselves with potentially-alienated "Blue Dog" Democrats to form a new opposition party.

American conservatism is in a pickle.

EDIT: REALLY?!?! We edit out "h0m0" on this board? How many totally legitimate English-language words does that eliminate? I may as well just start making all of my posts in l33t5p34k.

[WDRacing]

Depends on your definition of right wing conservatism.

We need LEGIONS of right wing conservatives. We need less of the Republican party's religious "core."

I'll buy that...

Fiscally conservative would be my wish.

[szh]

Fiscally conservative would be my wish.

That would be a most welcome change!

Z

[audtatious]

The more the Dems break society, down where more and more people rely on the Gov to provide for them, the longer they hold power. The more they can stymie opposing viewpoints the less the masses will hear of alternatives which leads to more power. The greater the fear the greater the control.

- People are stupid and need direction by the Gov- The Constitution is nothing but a constraining document written by idiotic quasi-religious, wig-wearing old farts- If you are not with us you need to be quieted as you are trying to spread what we say are untruths- Gov ownership of corporations will only lead to good things for the Gov to be able to give more back to the poor- The population will be better off with what we can give them instead of what they can work for- That problem is those other peoples fault....the ones before us or the ones who are against us- When 5 trillion makes the problem worse, double down until it goes away- Who needs other political parties when we are in charge? Let's get rid of them because we have proven to the world that we have all the answers

[themadscientist]

Looking at Spector's politics I just assumed he was a democrite.

[audtatious]

Swapping parties to stay elected and make out with bux seems like an honest way to make a living.

[themadscientist]

You have to give him credit for dropping the pretense and just admitting he is a democrite.

[audtatious]

He just wants to have swagga like the Big O

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/....html

[themadscientist]

As an ardent Obama detractor, I would just like to say, I am insulted FOR HIM. It's sad that because he's black this sort of thing seems to be relevant to certain people who claim to be journalists. Nobody asked cowboys what they thought of Bush's mosey, or truck drivershow they liked Clinton's taste in women.

[JustinStrife]

Gotta disagree with ya...

The last thing we need is more right wing conservatism in this country. And I'm conservative...

Conservative =/= Right Ring Religious Zealot.

Smaller Government, bigger military, Fiscal Responsibility = Conservative.

[HashiriyaS14]

Conservative =/= Right Ring Religious Zealot.

Smaller Government, bigger military, Fiscal Responsibility = Conservative.

Hmmm....maybe.

Ultimately, you are whomever you share your voting bloc with. You are your coalition, because ultimately, your vote just goes to support your coalition. You can't cherrypick your issues when you vote.

So yes, by voting GOP, you ARE advocating and pushing for the social conservatism stuff, whatever it may be that particular day. You may not agree with it, but you're still supporting it.

That said, if I vote Democratic, I am indirectly endorsing, say, "card check" union bills. I hate those bills, but I'm supporting them anyway by voting for my coalition, because I believe it's a trade-off of a smaller evil to deal with a greater one (whichever greater one happens to apply).

Ideologies cannot be separated from the parties that put them into practice. The only interpretation of an ideology that matters is the one that people are pushing for in practice, not whatever permutations of it exist in theory.

The modern-day Democratic party, thus, IS Liberalism in America. The modern-day GOP, thus, IS conservatism in America. Like it or not.

[intermilanrox]

It's going to be one sad day when the GOP finally falls. That is if it falls. We need some fresh blood and some new ideas or that day will come quite soon.

Once us Conservatives are out of the picture there is going to be no opposition to this ridiculous amount of spending, bailouts, outragous taxes, and stupid programs such as national healthcare.

I think that we can ALL agree that that will not be beneficial to any of us Americans, whether you are a lib or a conservatism.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

It's going to be one sad day when the GOP finally falls. That is if it falls. We need some fresh blood and some new ideas or that day will come quite soon.

Once us Conservatives are out of the picture there is going to be no opposition to this ridiculous amount of spending, bailouts, outragous taxes, and stupid programs such as national healthcare.

I think that we can ALL agree that that will not be beneficial to any of us Americans, whether you are a lib or a conservatism.

Americans, with the exception of wanting free healthcare, are trending SLIGHTLY more fiscally conservative in the past 10 years. Obama is, I hope, a charismatic blip.

We'll never be out of the picture.

[HashiriyaS14]

Fiscal conservatism isn't going anywhere.

The GOP has not been terribly welcoming to fiscal conservatives who also happen to be social liberals. As a result, the Democratic party has plenty of fiscal conservatives within it's ranks that SHOULD be Republicans.

If the GOP can't get their head around the idea of allowing pro-choice socially liberal people into their "tent", they WILL fail. Social conservatives are fighting a losing battle against history, but being fiscally responsible never goes out of style.

The GOP may indeed fall, but all that would mean is that all the fiscal conservatives in the GOP would probably end up joining with the "Blue Dog" Democrats to form a new opposition party. Both being generally socially progressive, one would be closer to socialism and the other would be fiscally conservative. You'd find me firmly in the camp of the latter.

The social conservatives who could give a damn about fiscal policy from the GOP will be left at the margin to rot. History always leaves some people behind, be they segregationists, or people against women's suffrage, or whatever. The present-day Prop-8 supporters and pro-lifers are just the next iteration of this crew. It was dumb for the GOP to bet their fortunes on this crowd instead of being the party of fiscal conservatism.

[JustinStrife]

And yet Proposition 8 passed, in arguably, the most liberal state in the country. Why is that Hash?

The problem is not the pro-choice issue. The problem is the politicians who call themselves Republicans, are just Democrats in sheep clothing, or they fail at getting their message out. The Democrats have the cable media and newspapers in their back-pocket, and are constantly on the offensive everywhere. They have no problems getting a message out(whether it's actually what they're doing or just saying what will get them elected). The Republicans SUCK at communication and organization. Always have.

[telcoman]

Fiscal conservatism isn't going anywhere.

The GOP has not been terribly welcoming to fiscal conservatives who also happen to be social liberals. .

Very true!

The present-day Prop-8 supporters and pro-lifers are just the next iteration of this crew. It was dumb for the GOP to bet their fortunes on this crowd instead of being the party of fiscal conservatism.

Exactly my thoughts

Well said!

Telcoman

[HashiriyaS14]

And yet Proposition 8 passed, in arguably, the most liberal state in the country. Why is that Hash?

A.) Hispanic Catholics?

B.) California is not even remotely the most liberal state in the country.....Vermont probably is. California was a GOP stronghold as recently as the 1980's. It has a Republican governor.

C.) I'm talking about a long-term trend. If you look at statistical results showing American acceptance for the idea of gay marriage and civil unions, you'll see an undeniable trend towards acceptance over time. This trend will continue.

The problem is not the pro-choice issue. The problem is the politicians who call themselves Republicans, are just Democrats in sheep clothing, or they fail at getting their message out. The Democrats have the cable media and newspapers in their back-pocket, and are constantly on the offensive everywhere. They have no problems getting a message out(whether it's actually what they're doing or just saying what will get them elected). The Republicans SUCK at communication and organization. Always have.

^^I agree with most of this, although in the era of Fox News, I don't think that the media bias is anywhere near as tilted towards the Democrats as it used to be. It still is, but only just a little.