heel & toe easier with aftermarket pedal or without?

[hannibal]

Actually, if you're good at rev matching, you don't need the clutch to downshift. Most of the Trans Am series drivers only use the clutch for starting off, then it's left foot on brake, right foot on gas.

I consider myself good at rev matching and I still need the clutch to downshift. I dont understand how the two are related.You should match revs when downshifting, and you should use the clutch when you downshift.

[Ren]

so, if I am not misunderstanding.. revs-match = double clutch... right?
Modified by Ren at 7:56 PM 1/18/2005

[okis14]

Heel-toe is just matching revs while braking.

That's not 100% true. Althought it's probably used in that manner 99% of the time but it does have other uses.

It can be used to help correct understeer and give you better control of your vehicle. I used it a lot for gymkhana when I need to whip the car around and stick the nose on a cone.

For drifting it can be used to keep your angle out while maintaing the line and to help correct understeer. Front end slows down from braking while giving it gas.

[hannibal]

OK, now I'm confused...matching revs: youre in 4th, hit the clutch, shift to 3rd, blip the gas, release the clutch.When you blip the gas, youre trying to achieve the rpm's the engine will be at after you engage 3rd gear.

Heel-toe: youre in 4th, hit the brakes, hit the clutch, shift to 3rd, blip the gas with your heel(toe stays on the brake), release the clutch.

Oki, it sounds like youre talking about hitting the gas and brake simultaneously. I guess that could be called heel-toe, but it has nothing to do with matching revs, braking, or downshifting.

[TachyonS14]

can somebody explain heel toe to me..? i've always read people mentioning it, but never really figured it out or looked it up.

:-P

[HashiriyaS14]

Well, there is such thing as clutchless shifting, but I've never had the cajones to do it more than a couple of times, lol.

Anyway, I seem able to heel-toe my current S14 just fine, good pedal placement. In my old WRX, I couldn't do it very well until I got some Project Mu pedals, which were larger, and then it was all butter.

[okis14]

Oki, it sounds like youre talking about hitting the gas and brake simultaneously. I guess that could be called heel-toe, but it has nothing to do with matching revs, braking, or downshifting.

That's what I was saying. The heel-toe isn't only for rev matching, it has other uses.

[Arrow]

There was a time when the only way that I would shift for the most part was without using th e clutch (and without grinding the gears at all) I only did it when upshifting though.... never really tried downshifting, at least not that I remember. It wasn't too hard to do on my 240... but it took some practice. and now I want to get bck home so I can practice some heel-toe braking... I'm at college and away from my poor 240.... :-(

[Ren]

matching revs: youre in 4th, hit the clutch, shift to 3rd, blip the gas, release the clutch.When you blip the gas, youre trying to achieve the rpm's the engine will be at after you engage 3rd gear.

so, it's just like double clutch..

[hannibal]

so, it's just like double clutch..

Sure, except you only clutch once and you blip the gas

How do you do clutchless shifting, just stay on the gas and shift?? That dont sound good...

[azncorruptedo17]

heel toe has plenty of uses, and reacts differently even for each car. so... for the new people that are barely starting to practice heel toe, best way is when your just driving around try revmatching when your downshifting.

[nismo521]

No, you don't stay on the gas for a clutchless shift, you have to lift to take the pressure off the transmission, then pull the shifter into the next gear. When the revs of the engine and transmission match up, the shifter will just kinda slip into gear. Downshifting w/o the clutch is a little more complicated, but if you can learn how to do it, you'll be much smoother when you heel-toe. Let's say you're in 4th and want to downshift to 3rd w/o the clutch. Let off the gas, pull the shifter out of 4th, then blip the throttle to match revs for 3rd gear, then push the shifter up into 3rd. If you've matched the revs just right, it will slip right into gear just like when you upshift w/o the clutch. Maybe try it on someone else's car first Now, w/ all that said, I still use the clutch pretty much all the time, it's just nice to know that I don't have to .

[toptechracing]

Actually, if you're good at rev matching, you don't need the clutch to downshift. Most of the Trans Am series drivers only use the clutch for starting off, then it's left foot on brake, right foot on gas.

Big difference in transmissions. A Trans am car gearbox does not have syncro's(dogbox) and was built to be shifted without a clutch. clutchless shifting can be done in a 240 gearbox but it is a slow process because it all has to happen with perfect timing.

Also if you are clutchless shifting there is no need to heel&toe because you would have your left foot on the brakes and right foot on the gas.

Joe

[nismo521]

Yeah, that was probably a bad example to use. I was just trying to prove the point that it can be done. When my friend first told me I thought it was BS, until he did it while I was in the car.

[rebelgtp]

i found its fairly easy to shift without the clutch in the 240. that was something my dad tought me back when i was first learning how to drive. took me out in my old car and said ok now watch this. he shifted all the way up and down without touching the clutch pedal except for when just pulling away and stoping. it completely floored me that it could be done. after that i got really good at matching revs and have been driving like that since. i generaly always match revs, unless of course i need to slow down really fast then i do engine braking lol. not best on the drive train but hey it works.

[420_240sx]

I want to try to rev match, never had much time on a stick yet....in time, in time.....

[Red coupe]

OK this has now been explain in detail from many points of view with pictures so Ill go ahead and take this oppertunity to hijack the thread and ask something Ive been wonding for a while...

gah?

[k6kicker]

Yeah since it is all about the feel, if you like the aftermarket pedals more then the stockers, by all means for for them. When I feel like an aggresive drive i throw on some old worn out sneakers and can pull it off quite well with the factory parts

[dfw240_EE]

I am actually able to shift up and down without the clutch in my Civic. I have not been able to perform the same in the 240 consistently and reliably. However I decided I didn't want to screw up the car so I stopped trying

Also, I do try to heel-toe sometimes, but I haven't gotten it quite right. The link and picture both helped alot. I actually liked edmund.com's advice of just sitting in the car in the driveway practicing technique.

Last note, Red Coupe, I just had to download that pic It has to come in handy someday!

[Ren]

I kinda try the revs-matching these days. um...be this thread. I've never done revs-matching.but I do the double clutch and heel and toe alot. and now I get used to the space. got it right 9 out of 10 . hope to perfect it out sooner or later.

does it burns extra gas when you revs-matching?

[DynastyRacingInc]

Watching the drift bible I thought those guys must have been double jointed to turn their feet like that, but I think it is just that I am probably not even single jointed (maybe like .75)

A little off subject, but I have to pay my respects to the drift bible. I was three hours away from buying an F-150 pickup truck. My friend Paul caught wind of this and would not have it. He showed me the Drift Bible and currently I am saving money for a 240. Drift Bible was my salvation. If you don't have it... GET it. :

[twofourzeroSX]

Bump... no wait, just make this sticky! good stuff